Dori Durbin: [00:00:00] Welcome to That's Good Parenting, the podcast where we search for simple steps to reduce your parenting stress. I'm your host, Dorrie Durbin, children's book illustrator, author, and book coach, and a podcaster, as you know. And parents, it's such a relief to look at our kids and know they're doing okay. But what if some of the things that reassure us, like good grades, achievement, or wanting to have them be proud of them, isn't really telling us the whole story of what's going on inside?

Dori Durbin: Today, we're digging into what kids may be experiencing underneath, and how we can help them not feel like they constantly have to prove themselves to know that they truly are enough. My guest today is [00:01:00] Laura Ollinger, a teen and parent wellbeing coach, youth speaker, and podcast host of the Positively Healthy Mom podcast.

Dori Durbin: Laura helps teens and young adults navigate anxiety, self-doubt, pressure, and identity, while also taking on the task of helping parents communicate better with their kids. Laura, welcome to That's Good Parenting. 

Laura Ollinger: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. 

Dori Durbin: I'm excited to talk to you because I feel like the teen years is when, like, we can make some of the biggest changes, but also it's, like, the toughest clientele to deal with, right?

Laura Ollinger: Yes. 

Dori Durbin: And I know you've spent so many, um, years of your career working with teens and parents, so you've really understood kind of what they're struggling with and what kind of support they need. So I'm curious, what keeps you going and doing this job? 

Laura Ollinger: That, thank you for asking me that, because I have just found that teens are my happy place, and I feel that is because [00:02:00] they are the most misunderstood population and the most kind of, the biggest group that c- has room for improvement or opportunity for growth as far as the parents learning, the teens learning, everybody kind of learning, you know, mindset skills and, um, communication skills and all the things that would just make things go a little bit easier for everybody.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Yeah. I think, see, and it's so funny to hear you say that because I think so many parents feel like the doors are shut, and that, like, it's too late, and, you know, it's, it's too late. I should've done this earlier. I should've this. Like, there's so much guilt in that. Mm. But I think what's cool on your end of things is you get, like, the inside scoop of what the, the teens are really feeling and saying.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. And so, you know, it, from a parent point of view, we might see the door shut and them like rah, rah, going off to their rooms, but you get to hear what they're really thinking and feeling. So what are some things that teens are telling [00:03:00] you that you really wish parents knew or understood? 

Laura Ollinger: Yes. Okay. I'm so glad you're asking me that, and it, a lot of my questions, it does vary whether you have sons or daughters, because there are different reactions and there are different, uh, ways of expressing emotion, as y- you know, most people know.

Laura Ollinger: I was once teaching a class to a group of, well, it was just mixed age, uh, but mostly, like, just middle school girls. Mm-hmm. And I asked them the question about what is the one thing that I, that they wish their moms did differently or, or they, they wanted them to know? And they unanimously all felt that their moms feel that they overreact about friend drama or anything dr- like, that, that's drama related.

Laura Ollinger: So basically it's like they come home, "Oh my gosh, this happened, and this person said something, and then I got this text or this message," and, and there's a lot of energy there, right? And so they felt so misunderstood by their moms because their moms are just like, "Don't worry about it. Just, it's fine.

Laura Ollinger: [00:04:00] Calm down. You're over..." You know, what, they might even have said, like, "You're overreacting." And that is not what teens, you know, tweens, teens, any, you know, of this age group, young adults, really anybody, they don't wanna be dismissed. They don't wanna be invalidated. What they want is to be met with that same level of emotion.

Laura Ollinger: So that doesn't mean you have to jump into the drama with them, but if your teenager comes home and says, "Oh my gosh, Mom, I have to tell you something," you should be like, "What? Tell me." Like, like, that enthusiasm, right? And it, you don't have to, like, again, get sucked into the stress or the drama, but, like, that energy, right?

Laura Ollinger: And so it's like then suddenly they get to kind of go on their rant. And sometimes parents do feel very overwhelmed, and it does affect their nervous system. And so if this is kind of, like, something that they're really struggling with, I kind of encourage parents to, you know, set a little bit of a limit.

Laura Ollinger: Like, "Yes, vent to me all you want for the next 10 minutes, and then I have to go cook dinner." Right? So it's like you're kind of setting a container because what parents [00:05:00] are... A- and it's all mostly moms just they can't deal with the idea of, because moms have their own stress. And when teens are just going on and on and on, it just feels like it's never gonna end, right?

Laura Ollinger: So if we can set a little container if needed, it's not always needed, and then to just listen and validate, listen and validate. And again, it doesn't mean you have to agree. If they're saying, "My teacher was so unfair, and they graded me unfairly, and it's not right," you might love the teacher and think they're an amazing teacher, so you can say, "Yeah, I hear that you feel that this teacher was really unfair."

Laura Ollinger: Like, you're agreeing with their opinion basically. And that, like, if you can master that skill, like, probably this is one of these top things of just, like, you know, validating, kind of meeting the emotion where they're at, not trying to fix or intervene or overstep, um, but just kind of being with the emotion without going into it is, like, life changing for any family.

Dori Durbin: Okay, so the, so, so many things running through my head right now. So when they come in and you meet them and you're like, "Oh my gosh, this is horrible. I feel so much for you," and all [00:06:00] that kind of thing- 

Laura Ollinger: Mm-hmm ... 

Dori Durbin: and they keep going and going- As a mom, you tend to kind of like wear some of that with you, right?

Dori Durbin: And you feel your own, like, your own nervous system, like you were saying, just getting higher and higher, and in the back of your mind you're talking about going to make dinner, all the things that are going on in your day that nobody asks you about, by the way. I'm with you. Um, and so how do we control ourselves in that?

Dori Durbin: Like, how do we not join the party? 

Laura Ollinger: This is, like, literally, this is, like, what I spend the most of my time working- ... with parents on, so I'm so glad you're asking this. It is a process. So there's, there's kind of like the in the moment process, like what do you do right now, but there's also just general, like, daily practices of, like, making sure you do have your own support network, making sure you do have the friends or the person that you can call, or your spouse or whoever, but making sure you are managing your own stress.

Laura Ollinger: Yeah. Because stress compounds, right? And then if you have not a lot of sleep, it's gonna compound even more, and you don't have the ability to regulate [00:07:00] yourself. So, so first of all, just kind of like this daily practice, like am I in the best shape I can be as a mom today, or as a human, or, or whatever I'm doing, it's my job.

Laura Ollinger: But then, like, just in the moment, you might need a minute, right? Like, I, I, a lot of times with working moms who are, um, coming home in the car, I encourage them to just take five minutes, or if you don't have five minutes, take two minutes. Take some deep breaths, just settle yourself in, and then even kind of get in the mindset of mom mode.

Laura Ollinger: Like, who do I need to be in order to manage this evening? And it might need to be, um, I need to be the patient mom. I need to be the good listening mom. I need to be the mom who is kind of the orchestrator, the executive function mom, if you have a, a, like, ADHD and, and homework challenges, right? So even kind of getting yourself in that mindset, and then in that moment of, again, you might need to just, "Oh, honey, I'll be right back.

Laura Ollinger: I want to hear everything you're saying. Oh my gosh, but I have to pee so bad," right? Like, maybe you go to the bathroom and you just take a minute and be like, "Oh [00:08:00] my gosh, I've had a rough day. My daughter now needs to vent. Whew." Get a drink of water. Okay, now I'm gonna go back out. Right? Like, it, like, there's all this, like, prep work and mindset work a- and really, like, knowing who we need to be, because what happens is we then bec- we, if, if we're not conscious about it, right, we can become the victim.

Laura Ollinger: Like, "Oh my God, my daughter's so annoying, I have all this stuff to do, I'm so stressed, I'm tired, nobody's listening to me," right? And like, you're like, it, it... A- and so what, you can't be there. You can't be the mom that you wanna be if you're not, again, taking care of yourself and getting yourself in the right mindset of, who do I wanna be in this moment?

Dori Durbin: That's awesome. I, that's probably some of the best advice I've heard on, like, like, because there's a lot there. There is a lot there, and we try to solve everything. Yeah. Um, and I think, like you said, just escaping to a different room. 

Laura Ollinger: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: I don't know how many women wouldn't do that because it would feel like they could, they wouldn't...

Dori Durbin: Like, taking that moment away would ruin something, if that makes sense to you. It, it makes more sense that it wouldn't [00:09:00] ruin something, 'cause you've taken the time to figure out what you're feeling, and then coming back to it. 

Laura Ollinger: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: But in the moment, it's like, "Oh, I, I can't just walk away." Well, yes you can.

Dori Durbin: Like, you know? It's like giving ourselves permission to do that. 

Laura Ollinger: Yeah, yeah. A- a- and, and there are, obviously this is a situation, case by case basis, if your daughter is sobbing, then maybe that's not the time. Maybe you just, "Honey," and I'm giving you a big hug, and I'm here for you, I'm gonna kiss you on the cheek.

Laura Ollinger: "Honey, I wanna hear all about your day. I will be right back, I have to pee so bad." Whatever it is, right? Place, like everybody understands emergencies, right? Um, it's not like, "Oh, I have to go check my work email," or, "Oh, I need to go pet the dog," right? Like, you're not doing something unimportant. Like, whatever it is, maybe you have another emergency type situation, but that just gives you, buys you a few minutes.

Laura Ollinger: Um, that's all you need sometimes. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. All right. You've got me curious. So these are the girls, and they want their, their moms to not, you know, react basically, or to be there- Yeah ... with them in the moment. 

Laura Ollinger: Right. 

Dori Durbin: Okay. How about the boys? What do they want? 

Laura Ollinger: I'm so glad you're asking me this too from both [00:10:00] angles.

Laura Ollinger: So a lot of times the boys are the more misunderstood, I would say, of the two, because they don't necessarily wanna open up and be like, "Hey Mom, I had a rough day. My buddy told me I w- " And it's like, they're not gonna say that, right? Thank G- they're never gonna say that. But they still wanna feel cared for, they wanna feel felt.

Laura Ollinger: They wanna know that you're available if needed. Um, because otherwise, what do they do? They go on their technology, they go in the room, they shut the door, they play the video games, whatever that might be. Um, and even with our active boys, like my sons, I have four kids, two boys, two girls, my sons are very active athletes.

Laura Ollinger: They don't have a lot of times for video games, but even them, those are like the ones that I know I, I, I need to just check in with. And, and, and it doesn't need to be some deep talk every day, just, "Hey, how, how are classes? Oh, tell me about that. What was hard about your chemistry test?" "Oh, really? Why do you think that was hard?

Laura Ollinger: Oh, um, is there anything that I can do to [00:11:00] help you with that? Like, do, do you need me to set up a tutor?" Like, you're just there, right? You're just asking questions. There's no judgment. It's just, "I'm here. I'm supportive." Um, rarely do the boys really need a lot of assistance with figuring out the friend drama.

Laura Ollinger: Like, it's usually the girls are the more friends. The boys are the more like, "Oh, I didn't get to play in the game as much. I'm a little disappointed." Like, that might be the feeling, or the feeling might be, you know, a girl, a girl problem, right? Like it, I, I got cheated on by my girlfriend. So they're not gonna be like, "Hey, Mom, I really need to talk to you.

Laura Ollinger: My girlfriend cheated on me." They're never gonna say that, right? But it's your job to be the detective, and if they're moping or sulking or sad or closed off, it's just a gentle, "Hey, I've noticed you've been, um, just a little quiet lately. I, I'm curious. Like, is something on your mind?" Right? Just kind of opening the door.

Laura Ollinger: And everybody has a different relationship with their son. One of my sons is very talkative. He'll tell me everything. I don't even have to ask most of these questions, 'cause it'll just come to me, [00:12:00] um, 'cause he's just more the extroverted type. My other son is more quiet, and I do have to do a little more digging, and I do have to kind of tread lightly so it doesn't seem like an interrogation or that I'm overwhelming him.

Laura Ollinger: You know, he's had his own long day. Maybe he just does need to chill and relax like we do. We need to chill and relax, right? So we're not gonna do it right after school when they came home. We're not gonna be like, "Get off your device, I wanna talk to you right now." It's not on our timeline. We have to really read the room, read the cues, re- read the body language.

Laura Ollinger: Um, but if it becomes concerning, but it's all about just, like, maintaining those little daily check-ins. "Hey, um, I see that you have a, a bruise on your shoulder from football practice. D- like, does that hurt? Do you need an ice pack, buddy? I'm here. Oh my gosh, tell me about that tackle. What happened that got you that bruise," right?

Laura Ollinger: Just anything where it's just, "I'm curious about your life," and sometimes they take you up on it, and sometimes they don't, but they need to know you're always there. 

Dori Durbin: You know, okay, so y- you brought up some really curious things in my mind. Um, one of the things that came across, and [00:13:00] this might be, it might depend on boys and girls too, and I know every, every kid's gonna be a little bit different.

Laura Ollinger: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: A lot of kids, especially in, in high school, are making big decisions. Mm-hmm. They're making big decisions about grades, about friends, about colleges, about, you know, like, what's next, and as a parent, it's really, really, really, really, did I say that enough, hard Mm-hmm ... to not help them, and, like, to the point where you're like, "Let me give you this.

Dori Durbin: Let me give you that. Let me, let me draw the path for you, and put the dotted lines for you to follow." Like, it's so hard. So if you have parents who have kids who are making some of these big decisions that are really struggling, what do you suggest for them? Like, what, what is the- Yeah ... best course for a parent?

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Laura Ollinger: This is a balance. This is a dance. This is delicate, right? There- Mm-hmm ... i- i- if we go too far on either extreme, it's not gonna work out well. So if we're the one controlling, guiding all the decisions, "You need to apply here, you need to go there," right? Like, "Get this job, go to this college," right? That is gonna [00:14:00] backfire like you wouldn't believe.

Laura Ollinger: Maybe not in the short term, but definitely in the long term. They will resent you, they will regret their decisions, they will blame you. Every-- I've seen all these very negative long-term effects. If you go the opposite extreme, which is, "My kid's so self-sufficient, they just do everything on their own," um, they might not voice it, but they feel under-supported.

Laura Ollinger: They might start to doubt themselves. They, they crave the guidance, but not in the form of us telling them what to do, but just exploring. Like even when I'm working with my own clients, I just sometimes call it a brainstorm session. "Hey, let's brainstorm about this. Let's just get some ideas on paper. Like what are you thinking about, um, fill in the blank, your future?

Laura Ollinger: Where you might wanna go? What are your thoughts about it?" Right? And then we're getting curious, and then we're guiding gently, but we're not pushing or telling or controlling. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. And that's, that's definitely a learned skill. That's not ... I think especially if you've been doing it all along through their life and now all of a sudden are trying to back off.

Laura Ollinger: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: [00:15:00] And, yeah, yeah. I love that too because it gives them the opportunity to invest in some of the, the creative brainstorming pieces of it of like, okay-- Well, I've had conversations, I have a, a 24, I had to think how old, 24-year-old son, and we've had conversations about his future and like, you know, "What, what do you want to do beyond X, Y, Z?"

Dori Durbin: And sometimes he says stuff that I'm like, "Really?" I never thought you liked that, you know? And so, like, by opening that door up, if I had just said, "Well, I know you like this and this and this, so you should follow here," that conversation would never come up. 

Laura Ollinger: Right. Right. And the thing is, we also wanna empower them, because the last thing that any parent wants is the 30-year-old, um, unlaunched human that's still living at home.

Laura Ollinger: And one of the things that, that causes that is, is just a hu- a, an immense amount of, um, an immense lack, let's just say, of, of self-worth and self-confidence and ability, and it's like then they get blamed. Oh, they're the problem. They can't launch themselves. They are not [00:16:00] in the world. Well, let's just backtrack a little bit and think about, well, what caused that?

Laura Ollinger: Mm-hmm. And it's typically those over-controlling parents who are dictating and, and guiding and not being curious. Um, because when we, um, when we put this path out, right, they... You can never want something more for your child, or, and, and then for me, a- as a coach, I can never want something for my client more than they want it for themselves.

Laura Ollinger: So if I have a client who, let's say, ended a relationship they were dating, I want them to get over it real quickly. I want them to move on. I want them to not let it affect their schoolwork or their sports or whatever, right? But if that's not what they want, it's never gonna work, right? Like, I can tell them all day long, "Hey, this isn't good for you, da da da," but th- there's this, this kinda principle in coaching where if I tell you something, you might believe me, but if you tell yourself something, you will believe you.

Laura Ollinger: You do believe the words that are coming out of your mouth. If you're saying them, it's your truth, right? [00:17:00] And so the idea is to, like, allow them that freedom to make their own decisions and make their own choices. And, um, yeah, you might not like them, you might not agree with them, they might not be your first choices, and which is why this age group is so difficult, right?

Laura Ollinger: Because it's like, oh, my gosh, like, you went from a little child who you got to pick their clothes and they were so cute and they were matching, to, you know as we know, they wanna be more independent. They wanna pick out their own clothes. And then as teenagers, they're choosing their own identity. They're starting to choose their future and make these decisions, and it can be very hard.

Laura Ollinger: And in fact, most of the time, um, teens will test you in this way, because they will choose something that is potentially on the outside of your own family values. Here's an example, and, and it's just, um, I'm bringing my own daughter into the mix. She's in college. She's a freshman in college. She s- the other day said, "Hey Mom, um, I think this weekend I'm gonna go and get another piercing."

Laura Ollinger: And I'm like, "What?" She literally has, [00:18:00] like, multiple, you know, all the kids these days have all these multiple pier- And lots of adults, too, you know. And no judgment if you do. Like, more power to you, right? But I've always thought kind of less is more in this category, right? You can always do it later, but it's one of those things, like, yes, could you undo a piercing?

Laura Ollinger: Sure. But it's kind of just a thing. I know that she knows that I don't love that, right? But if I say, "Don't get that piercing," what is that gonna do? A, it's gonna make her wanna do it more, but B, it's gonna f- she's gonna just keep finding ways to keep, um, pushing her own autonomy onto me. Like, I will force my...

Laura Ollinger: I'm gonna get my autonomy met, need met one way or the other, so it's either gonna be like you're gonna know about it, and you might not like it, but you're gonna know about it, or I'm gonna do it in my own way, which could be more destructive, right? And that's when we start to see, like, some of those more unhealthy behaviors.

Laura Ollinger: "If my mom doesn't like this, well, then watch this. I'm gonna go..." Right?

Dori Durbin: Yep. Yep. Yep. Well, and it's crazy too, because I think [00:19:00] that when they do that, your, your reaction, your gut reaction is to pull back harder. 

Laura Ollinger: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: You know? And to get that i- in your brain, like I have to let go a little bit is scary. Mm-hmm. It's scary as a parent, you know? 

Laura Ollinger: It is. Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Especially if you've been matching their clothes until they're 15, you know?

Laura Ollinger: Hopefully nobody's doing that, but yes, you know, there's always the desire. I guess there's always the urge, you know? 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. So what would you say, Laura, if you have a student who, a teen who is, they're struggling and you see it, and you're trying to kind of get them out of the trenches, but that's not where they are.

Dori Durbin: Like you were talking about earlier, you can't make somebody want something more than you want it. So how, how do we help them without being in that spot that you're talking about with your daughter? Like, where is that fine line? 

Laura Ollinger: Mm-hmm Yes. So I think, um, the key is to just really understand, like, okay, so say it was the original example with the, the just broke up, they don't wanna get over it.[00:20:00]

Laura Ollinger: Um, that's gotta be serving them in some way. Mm-hmm. Why is them being sad about their ex, like, how is that useful to them? Is that feeling of sadness getting them attention? Is that feeling of sadness, um, getting validation from their friends? It... Right? Usually a negative behavior has some meaning to it that we're not able to see just maybe on surface level.

Laura Ollinger: So it's about, like, understanding, like, what is this, how is this serving you? Like, what is this giving you? What is the benefit that you're getting here? And sometimes it's just that own feeling of kind of importance. Well, if I'm all depressed, I kinda feel cool because, you know, there's two camps that I work with.

Laura Ollinger: There's the kids who are really proud to work with me and, and they tell their friends about it, and there's the other ones who are embarrassed, they don't want anybody know, it's very confidential, they don't tell anybody. Sometimes kids do brag about it. And, and I am a coach, I'm not a therapist, but kids get that confused and sometimes they'll be like, "Well, my therapist this and my therapist that," [00:21:00] right?

Laura Ollinger: So can you see how, like, that's a- an attention getting cycle? "I'm so depressed about so-and-so that I had to have a special meeting with my therapist and..." Right? Like, it's like this whole thing. I mean, yes, c- there are... Like, say with, um, the, the daughter example, you know, like, what could that be getting her?

Laura Ollinger: Is that what the question was? I kinda lost track on- 

Dori Durbin: Yeah ... sorry. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, like, how do we, how do we encourage them without causing re- more rebellion? You know, like, how do we get them out of... They're in a slump, like, it's just not happening, and we're like, "Oh, I've gotta do something. I've gotta help them out of this spot."

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Or that that is what it feels like, you know. How do we, how do we help them move on to something more positive without getting in the way and causing the rebellious 

Laura Ollinger: backlash? I see. Okay, yes, I'm with you because I have a client, and I am obviously confidential about my clients, so I will be changing just minor details, but no one, you know, it's impossible to ever trace this.

Laura Ollinger: Um, I have a client who, um, was school, school ref- doing school refusal. He did not graduate from high [00:22:00] school because he just kinda checked out. Now, it's crazy from his parents' point of view, 'cause he's gen- he's super smart. He could've gotten into any college he wanted to. Um, he just gave up. Mm. And this is one of those ones where I've been w- coaching just the parents because he, of course, refuses...

Laura Ollinger: If he refuses to go to school, he definitely refuses to meet with me, right? Like, they can't, you cannot force a 17-year-old boy to get on a Zoom and meet with me and talk, right? And here's the thing, like, you can try... I, I, I explained it to the mom like this. There's the carrot and there's the stick. We can try negative consequences.

Laura Ollinger: You can take away his belongings. You can take away the important things to him. Um, this is one of those ones, and again, it kind of, every kid has their breaking point, right? If you, we go the, with the negative route, and we go with the taking away your phone, your privileges, your car, your this, your that.

Laura Ollinger: Um, some kids that'll work, right? And they'll bend. They'll be like, "Okay, fine. I'll go to school. I want my this," right? Like, some of them will break. There are other ones that the d- the m- the [00:23:00] more you get locked in your position, the more they lock in And so it got to be this point where, um, it can become unsafe, and that's where it's like, okay, this isn't working, right?

Laura Ollinger: Because a 17-year-old boy can... They're big, they're strong. They can do things. They, if they don't like this, they're gonna do that. If they don't like this, they're gonna do that, right? And then we get to, you know, is he gonna run away? Is he gonna... Right? Like, so we don't wanna go that far. We have to hopefully know our kid enough to know, like, what's gonna work and what's not.

Laura Ollinger: Um, and so therefore we- it's the carrot, right? If the stick is not gonna work, we get the carrot out. Okay. So what is important to you? What is important to your life? Like, there's got- everybody has a lever. Everybody has something that they want, something. And if they don't, then that is, you know, probably we're at the stages of clinical depression if we're that far, right?

Laura Ollinger: Like, if there's, "No, I don't care about anything, and I don't care about my life, and there's nothing I want," um, then you need to get some help. A lot of, a lot of help. That's beyond the s- the scope of my services. Um, but everybody wants something. And so, um, what this kid, a- and I was helping the parents most see that he just [00:24:00] desperately wants his autonomy and, um, and that n- that was getting taken away from him.

Laura Ollinger: So even when he was trying to get a job, the dad, um, the dad was getting frustrated. The dad did the resume for him. I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do the resume. He has to do it. He has to want it." Like, the more they wanted it for him, the more he was just checking out. So again- Hmm ... what is the carrot? Um, we came up with a few ideas, things that he wants, things that will motivate him or at least baby step in the right direction, right?

Laura Ollinger: Like, we're never gonna see, like, a 180 overnight, but, like, baby step in the right direction. So those are kind of, like, the two things. Like, if you have that kid that's locked in, you have to know your kid. You have to know what's gonna work, and sometimes you have to go places you might not wanna go with your kid.

Laura Ollinger: You might have to be the bad guy. You might have to take away all their privileges if that's what it's gonna take because sometimes they just need a push, unfortunately. And we hope it just never gets to that point, but, eh, so that's why the ideal, uh, you know, the ideal framing is we just never get to that point.

Laura Ollinger: Like, we prevent these things from [00:25:00] before they really occur, but sometimes parents just don't... They only know what they know at the time, right? And, and sometimes, like, things happen, and they finally call me. And they're like, "We need your help." I'm like, "I wish you would've called me a year ago. This would've been a lot easier."

Laura Ollinger: But that's okay. 

Dori Durbin: You know, and it, it is so complex. Like, every l- relationship, every family has their complexities. But I do like the carrot versus the stick because I do think that there are kids that would be motivated by, "Hey, if you get a job, we can, we can start working on getting you a car. Um, we can work on, you know, you wanting to go to the, uh," let's say, like, to Utah for some m- rock climbing or something.

Dori Durbin: I mean, like, those are big things, but- Yeah ... but that's worthy of working towards something. So I think that that's really important, too. Yeah. So Laura, with all of your work that you've done, do you ever wish that parents would teach their kids something earlier in life so that later some of these issues weren't coming up?

Dori Durbin: Is there something that comes to mind that's like, "Oh, if they only knew this one thing"? 

Laura Ollinger: Yeah, I mean, e- every family's [00:26:00] slightly different, but one of the things I see a lot of w- is, um, and this is the word you're gonna see a lot in social media and in the news right now, is entitlement. The pendulum has swung from when we grew up, you know, I, I, we, I was in a kind of financially okay family.

Laura Ollinger: Like, we had things, but my parents never just got me what I wanted, or if I wanted something, maybe I would get it for Christmas, or if I wanted to go on a trip or to a camp, it was never just an automatic, "Yes, yes, yes. Here's this, here's that, here's that," right? And so it's like that's how we were raised and a, and a lot of parents now have just swung to the opposite end, which is, "Oh, I never had anything.

Laura Ollinger: My parents didn't do this. They were so strict." And so they're going the opposite way, right? And so now kids think they get everything and they deserve everything, and they don't have to work for it. So that's what I see a lot of. And so if there's one thing I could encourage parents is to just exactly what you explained, that collaborative process.

Laura Ollinger: "Okay, you want a car. How are we gonna make that happen? You wanna go on a [00:27:00] trip? How are we," right? It's not just, "Here you go." It's like, "Okay, you want this? Y- you're gonna have to find a way to, like, work with me. Like, it's not like I g- expect you to pay your entire," whatever, this or that, but maybe, or maybe we, I do half, you do half, right?

Laura Ollinger: There has to be some skin in the game from the kids. 

Dori Durbin: I love that. I love that. And how you, you teach kids more or less, like, how to feel like they're enough- 

Laura Ollinger: Mm ... 

Dori Durbin: right? 

Laura Ollinger: Mm-hmm. 

Dori Durbin: And I, I'm curious how this all ties together because I do think that some kids- They don't feel like they're enough because they're not keeping up with this, this, that, and this.

Dori Durbin: There's like these, these grand goals based on everybody else and everything else, and not anything- Mm-hmm ... that they know inside themselves. So talk to me a little bit about that. How do you help parents and kids find that? 

Laura Ollinger: Yeah. So for one thing, it, it's not that teens like to hear this, but they understand what I mean, and parents do understand this, is the concept of stay in your lane.

Laura Ollinger: Oh, they have that? They have that? Stay in your lane. They have this, they have that? Stay in your lane, right? [00:28:00] Like, we're just so programmed through social media and just kind of cultural norms that we are, like, keeping up with the Joneses. And the thing is, parents do this, too, right? And so the more a parent can role model that, the more it makes sense in the family.

Laura Ollinger: Like, "Oh, that's great for them. They just did a trip around the world. I'm s- that's so cool. I, I hope to hear about that. That's, that's not us, and we can't do that, so we're gonna stay in our lane," right? So just, that's kind of like the, the first, most, like, tangible piece to understand is when you catch yourself, because it's normal to, like, catch yourself, you know, being jealous or checking on other people's stuff.

Laura Ollinger: Check yourself, right? Like, "Oh, I'm doing it. Okay, stay in my lane." Because the more you can tie your own identity and your own worth into kind of, like, who you are and what you do and what your authentic role is in kind of this world and finding your purpose, maybe your purpose is to work for a nonprofit saving puppies, right?

Laura Ollinger: And, like, that's what fills your bucket, and you literally just love puppies so much and you love [00:29:00] rescuing them. Okay, well, yeah, you're not gonna get the trip around the world maybe if that's your thing, but that's okay, right? And so it's like, "This is what I love. This is who I am. This is how I identify myself, as someone who's a helper and a giver and, and I serve my community," right?

Laura Ollinger: And so it's like, see how it's like the more we get excited about who we are, the less we care about what they're doing. 

Dori Durbin: Ooh, I love that. I absolutely love that. 'Cause there is so much out there to compare yourself to. 

Laura Ollinger: Mm-hmm 

Dori Durbin: But you're only you, and like, not only you. You are you, and the only thing that's gonna make you feel good is what you really love.

Laura Ollinger: Yes. So, yeah. I mean, it's all within your control. That's like the f- the fun part about it is like everything that is in your lane is in your control. What you think, what you feel, what you do, and the things that you have in your life, those are all things that you have power over. And so, I mean, yes, there are some outside influences that kinda infiltrate that, but for the most part, right, theoretically, um, we have so much power over how we feel about ourselves and our lives and who we are and, and if we're enough.

Laura Ollinger: And to speak to kind of that enoughness piece, [00:30:00] the enoughness is about, um, stopping the measurement, right? Like, that's what that is. Because if we think about the definition... So I don't wanna get all technical here, but it's the, it's called the sociometer theory, which is, um, we're, we're measuring how we m- are in society and in our, um, social lives, and that is where our self-esteem comes from.

Laura Ollinger: Like, our self-esteem is good, and it ebbs and flows when we feel like we belong and we feel like people like us, and we feel like we belong and we're included and we're part of something. If we go to some really situation where everybody's turning their backs away and they ignore us and they don't respond, we're feeling excluded, it is gonna affect our self-esteem.

Laura Ollinger: That's the way humans are wired. It is. Like, w- a hard, you could be the c- hardest, most confident person in the world, but if people are just like... Because we're wired for human connection, right? And so it is literally innate in us. So where we get this enoughness is just, again, back to, okay, I didn't belong there.

Laura Ollinger: They were ignoring me here. But I'm gonna stop measuring. The enoughness is about not measuring anymore, and it's about I am enough. [00:31:00] I was born enough. I was created enough. I am enough, and maybe I didn't belong there, but I'm gonna find my people. Or I know I belong here, right? So it's kind of like this two-part thing.

Laura Ollinger: Like, it, it's this internal process, but then again, because we're social humans, we need that belonging. We're gonna find where we feel good. 

Dori Durbin: That's, again, great. I mean, I'm thinking that, like, the, the terminology enoughness, I, I don't think many of us really feel that. And to be able to kind of articulate that, and to look back and look at what you are doing that feels good- Mm-hmm

Dori Durbin: like, that's, that's huge. That is huge. Mm. Oh, I love it. Um, Laura, okay, I'm looking at our clock, and it's ticking away ra- rather quickly. Yes. I really want for them to know how they can find out more about you, how they can work with you, how they can hear more about what you do. So can you tell us the best places and some of what you've been up to?

Laura Ollinger: Absolutely. The b- easiest place is just my website, which is positivelyhealthycoaching.com, and that's also my Instagram handle, positivelyhealthycoaching.com. So just whether you wanna follow [00:32:00] me on Instagram or really check out my website and set up a connection call with me, um, I offer just free calls with parents just to chat.

Laura Ollinger: You know, you can learn more about how I can help your, your teen or your young adult. I do work with college kids as well, and so that would be the, the kinda one-stop shop to go to. 

Dori Durbin: Awesome. Awesome. Okay, so one more opportunity here. So parents, listen up Laura, we always like to leave the parents with one step that they can take after the podcast is over.

Dori Durbin: So if they're listening right now and they're like, "This is my relationship, this is what's going on with my kids, this is so stressful," what is one small action step that they can do fairly quickly that will help them understand their kids a little bit more and experience some of that stress a little less?

Laura Ollinger: Well, I personally love when parents are able to put theirselves in their teen's shoes, because we are comparing their lives to our lives, which was 30-ish years ago, depending on your age, [00:33:00] right? And so kids do not like that. They hate the story of, like, Mom saying, "Oh, yeah, when I was growing..." They hate that.

Laura Ollinger: They don't wanna hear that. Like, that doesn't resonate with them and it doesn't make any sense. So my two challenges are, I mean, it's really two, one, do something hard that is kind of on par with what your teen is, is doing hard. So I'll give you an example of something I did. I went to a networking dinner where I knew no one.

Laura Ollinger: I was locked in a r- well, not locked in a room. I was at a restaurant. I wasn't technically locked, but it was a high-pressure situation, right? And it, it was all about the... I did this as an experiment to put myself intentionally in a hard place, so that way, I can identify when a client or my teen, one of my kids says, "Oh, my gosh, Mom, I have to sit by this annoying kid at school.

Laura Ollinger: They're so annoying," right? I can identify, and I don't have to, like, tell them my story. But I get it, right? Oh, my gosh, I was sitting at this networking dinner next to this brutal guy. He wouldn't stop talking. Right? Because I [00:34:00] just, I, I'm actively trying to put myself in the types of situations that they might be in.

Laura Ollinger: The other one is really just my analogy for, um, right, 'cause parents get so mad about the phones. We, we wanna think of it like this. So you know when a little kid goes to a birthday party and they get a balloon? The balloon inevitably floats up in the sky because it wasn't tied right, you know, and, and the kids cry because they're like...

Laura Ollinger: A- and the parents think it's annoying, 'cause they're like, "It's just a balloon. I don't get it. Stop. It's silly. We'll get a new balloon. Who cares?" Well, I always say, imagine your phone and your wallet went floating up into the sky, right? Like, i- it's a big deal. You're mad, you're upset. And so that's just like the illustration for parents putting themselves in their kids' shoes, and same with like the ki- the phone.

Laura Ollinger: Like, this is their connection to the outside world. Now granted, some of it is very negative, but yet some of it is positive. So if I were to take away your out- connection to the outside world, how would you feel? Of course you're gonna scream. Of course you're gonna yell. If I take away your phone and your computer and, and everything, your car, you're gonna freak out, right?

Laura Ollinger: So it's [00:35:00] just, again, putting yourself in their shoes that their reactions make so much more sense if you actually understand them. 

Dori Durbin: So put yourself in their shoes, and also just see the world from their eyes and their perspective. Yes. 

Laura Ollinger: Yes. Yes. 

Dori Durbin: Ooh. Yes. It's such a good challenge, and it's how brave of you to go to that networking.

Laura Ollinger: Oh, I know, right? I was like, ooh, this is like a fun little adventure. But like, you know, h- I, I'm 50 years old, right? So I've had a lot of experience doing things. But imagine you're a 16-year-old or a 17-year-old, and they're having to do something new and hard and different that they've never done, and it's scary and it's overwhelming, right?

Laura Ollinger: And so it's just like always building that muscle of like putting yourselves out there. So for me, it wasn't really that hard. But I still wanted to get that feeling again, you know, just so it feels fresh. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. I love that. It's such a good perspective-giving, um, exercise. I was just thinking about when you drive, too, like you have those new drivers and you're the mom or the dad in the car, and you're kind of backseat driving, that kind of stuff.

Laura Ollinger: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Have you ever driven, um, somebody who you didn't [00:36:00] know in the car with you, and it feels just so awkward and you feel tense- Uh, yeah ... nervous? 

Laura Ollinger: Yeah, 

Dori Durbin: yeah. Like if somebody, a passenger riding with you who you barely know. 

Laura Ollinger: Oh, yes. Um, 

Dori Durbin: yeah. It's the same kind of thing. Yeah. So like even, even those kind of...

Dori Durbin: Like, just being able to find those, those little nuggets of like something similar so that you can- Yes ... build that feel. Yeah. 

Laura Ollinger: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. 

Dori Durbin: Oh, I love it. I love... Well, we could talk forever, I think, Laura. Yeah. I really do. But I, I really appreciate what you've given our listeners today, um, just the perspective, the perspective that you've shown us as far as what teens are thinking, feeling, how we're reacting, and what's...

Dori Durbin: It's really important how we're relating to our kids and receiving them really. Yes. Right? 

Laura Ollinger: Yes. Yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Thank you so much for your time today. Check Laura out. Check out her website. Check out her Instagram. Her Instagram's awesome. Yes, yes, and definitely listen to her podcast too, for sure.

Dori Durbin: So [00:37:00] listeners, if today's conversation made you think a little bit differently about your own child, I hope so, and maybe you'd also like to help other kids as well. How would you like to do that? Well, I have an idea. Oh, gosh, Laura, I'm pushing them. Shoot. Yeah. Well, I'd like to welcome you and invite you to join the That's Good Parenting club, our free community where parents can connect, preview, and vote on upcoming children's books, help re-phrase them, reshape them to become books that your kids in the future or the past would have loved to read anytime.

Dori Durbin: So today, one thing I really hope is I hope that you can use the information that Laura has given us, that you can see an opportunity to really connect differently with your child and to take some of the stress off of your life, because I would really love for you to end your day saying, "Now that, that moment, that was good parenting."

Dori Durbin: We'll see you [00:38:00] soon