Dori Durbin: [00:00:00] Welcome to That's Good Parenting, the podcast where we search for simple steps to reduce your parenting stress. I'm your host, Dorrie Durbin, children's book illustrator, book coach, and podcaster. I help parenting experts take their biggest ideas and kid-size them into children's books that families can continue learning from long after our podcast is over.

Dori Durbin: Parents, think about how many decisions you make for your kids every single day. Sometimes the easiest thing to do is just to solve the problem for them, right? But what if instead we stopped and we asked ourselves, "Is what I'm doing right now in this moment going to help them later on in life?" Today's guest is a pro at reducing reactive parenting.

Dori Durbin: She is a parenting consultant, an educator, author, host of Ask Mom parenting podcast, and a mom of four. She has spent more than 25 years studying child behavior, raising her own kids, and working with families. Her work helps parents find practical ways to change the dynamics in their homes, build accountability, and move [00:01:00] from reactive parenting into proactive parenting.

Dori Durbin: And with all that experience, today I really wanna step back from just solving a problem and look at some of the bigger things that Sue has observed. Sue Donnellan, welcome to That's Good Parenting. 

Sue Donnellan: Thank you very much for having me, Dorie. It's, I'm happy to be here. 

Dori Durbin: I love that you have this experience because first of all, you have your own family, but then secondly, you've worked with numerous families in the time of 25 years just studying behavior and observing, like stepping back and really observing.

Dori Durbin: So you've had the opportunity to see a lot of parenting decisions play out even over time. So let me ask you kind of a tough question right away, Sue. What do you wish parents would ask you more often? 

Sue Donnellan: I think that what I would, I, what I would like to hear is, or be asked, is more like big picture. How do we step away?

Sue Donnellan: How do we h- how do we intentionally detach [00:02:00] and start focusing on raising the adult in the future? So in other words, how do I invest in my child today? What little things can I do today to turn this child, which is an adult in training, you know, into a, a, a child or an adult that is adding value in the world?

Sue Donnellan: How do I invest in this child's purpose and help them discover their purpose? And that's the one thing that I find we're so busy in the minutiae and in the day-to-day, that it's, we don't focus on the big picture. So I think that's kind of where I would focus is, you know, big picture, long-term, 'cause this child won't be a child forever.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. That is so hard. I mean, and I think that, I think you're absolutely right. Like, if we think about it in terms of, like, we're not solving a situation, we're not putting out a fire in this moment, we're looking and giving them skills and tools that they can use when they become adults, it's a totally different kind of parenting, right?

Dori Durbin: It, 

Sue Donnellan: yeah, yeah. It [00:03:00] really is. 

Dori Durbin: Um- Do you feel like it's less stressful for parents when it's like that, when you're looking down the road? 

Sue Donnellan: Yes. Yes, uh, because some of the systems and things that I talk about or that I try to help- in the dynamic of, of parents' homes is how to streamline. You know, look at systems, look at processes, and kind of look at how to focus on the big picture, how to sort of just let that settle and let the kids solve some of their own problems and take on a little bit less ourselves 

Dori Durbin: Yeah, I, I have a feeling that a lot of parents when they have littler kids, obviously there's less experienced parenting, and some of it it's, it's first-time stuff.

Dori Durbin: Like, you know, I've never done this before. I- this child has never been the child before. So it's that kind of thing. But I also feel like we get caught up in such tiny little issues that just keep tripping us over and over again. What, what are some common things that you see that parents kind of get stuck in trying to solve when it's really maybe not important?

Dori Durbin: I [00:04:00] don't know. Maybe it's less important than we think. Basically, what do parents get tripped up in in like everyday things that they're trying to solve, like little problems, that they're not realizing those aren't really that big a deal, it's the bigger, you know, decisions later? 

Sue Donnellan: Well, you know, you said it earlier, and it's a really good point, and I, I, I do talk about this in one of my podcasts, where we think every single day is a brand-new day.

Sue Donnellan: You know, we, we, we are experiencing something new, and I, you know, part of stress on anyone's, in anyone's life is experiencing something new. When we get out of our comfort zone and we're doing something new, it's highly stressful, and when you think about parenting in that way, it's like every single day with our child is, is a day we've never seen.

Sue Donnellan: It's a new phase. It's a new age. It's a new mood. It's, it's all of these things. So every single day we're experiencing newness, um, and especially with our firstborn, we don't know what to expect. And so we tend to, and I know I did this, we tend to see a personality trait in our child and extrapolate it out.

Sue Donnellan: So [00:05:00] for example, I, you know, I had four kids, and three of them were triplets. Our oldest is three years older than the triplets, and the oldest would do typical big brother things, and he would make them cry, and he would do these types of things. And you can get caught into the trap of thinking this kid's gonna forever be the mean big brother, and you think, "Oh, I have to parent this.

Sue Donnellan: I have to get on it. I have to, you know, do certain things to get him to stop." And that is, that's, that's one of the things like living in the minutia of the day and allowing the stress to just overtake you, thinking that you have to take an action that you don't need to take. And that comes with experience and wisdom, and that's why I think it's helpful to work with families because sometimes the wisdom of somebody who's been through it, you know, my kids are in their 20s, and I, I have the wisdom of the rear view mirror now to say, "Oh, that's not...

Sue Donnellan: Nah, it's okay. They outgrow that. You don't need to take that personally. That's not a, that's not, that's not this way or that way." And you know, a lot of times [00:06:00] these days I'm seeing a lot of the families that I work with don't have a village. They don't, they're, they're either kind of pushing away from their own families, or they don't have their own family they can rely on, and so we're taking on a little bit more of a support role for the, the, the parent- To where they can then understand, "Oh, okay.

Sue Donnellan: Oh, I don't need to worry about this. Um, I can, I can focus on..." Like, he's not, it's just a phase. And I talk a lot about that, you know, in my book where I've got, i- is it a phase or is it something I have to correct? And how do I know the difference between terrible twos or threes and just bad behavior? So those are the, some of the things that, you know, we help a family determine so that they can relax into the moment and not feel like they have to parent absolutely every behavior.

Dori Durbin: I, I remem- you just brought back a really funny thing. Um, I remember when my son was young. Uh, my two are two years apart. And he was kind of, he was getting to the point where he was picking, like you were discussing, and [00:07:00] sort of testing us. And I remember he got to school and he started learning some more things, right?

Dori Durbin: Some more skills that I really wasn't fond of. And I started asking other parents who had older kids, "Is this boy or is this bad?" 

Sue Donnellan: Oh, great question. 

Dori Durbin: Mm-hmm. Because it, it really like, it got to the point where I, I was like, not having grown up with brothers, not understanding the male perspective, I was trying to like make myself physically step back because everything I wanted to say, "No, no, no, no," and just yell.

Sue Donnellan: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: And I was so stressed out. I was like, "This can't be what's normal," you know? But is it, is it boy or is it bad? Is it the boy behavior or is this bad behavior? And even just having that little space felt better. 

Sue Donnellan: Just being able to distinguish and say that that's a category. 

Dori Durbin: Yes. 

Sue Donnellan: Uh, because, you know, we did have three boys and one girlcus.

Sue Donnellan: Um, the boys are very tactile, very, you know, ener- high energy. They wanna see it, like, does it break? Does it swing? Does it, can I hang on it? And [00:08:00] that is normal boy behavior. And so that was a really wise question and a, a, a very wise way of thinking at that time because you were giving him the benefit of the doubt, and you wanted to get it right.

Sue Donnellan: And I think that's super important. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. And I do feel like when you are in the midst of parenting and, and especially if you have multiple kids, you're trying to do the same thing with all of them, you know? You're like, "Okay, everybody's gonna behave this way. Everybody has the same rules." And there are times where it feels, like, almost unfair because you know that it's not gonna reach every kid.

Dori Durbin: Like, you're twisting it enough to reach a kid. So talk to us a little bit about that, like, individualizing it, maybe not feeling as guilty, but when do we do that and how do we know what to do? 

Sue Donnellan: Well, you do, again, s- have to step back and just really listen and observe and, and see their different personalities.

Sue Donnellan: And I think, you know, most of us as parents can say, "Oh yeah, this one's like this. This one's like that." So if you recognize that their personalities are different, then, you know, challenge yourself as a parent to reach them differently [00:09:00] and invest in them as an individual. And that is one of the things, like, in our particular case with our oldest and then our triplets, that was a very interesting dynamic.

Sue Donnellan: We had the three year apart, then we had the identical boys within the triplet group. So we had boys and girl, then we had identical boys, and then the, you know, our daughter. And the group of the three were very, very tight, and they would turn against the ol- my older son. So if he decided to do big, big brother antics, they would shut him out.

Sue Donnellan: And I was parenting a variety of things. So you've got, you know, the older one, but then you've got, like, the identical boys. They, they were very much their own people. They're very, very different. So I was intentional about not giving them the same sounding names, the same, you know, giving them separate, like, letters to start their name, and to just make sure that, in our case, we [00:10:00] integrated the three into the four children, and it wasn't just the oldest and the group.

Sue Donnellan: I was constantly thinking about how to integrate everybody and how everybody could be on the same page, while also listening and learning about their personalities and where I could dive in specifically on them on what their interests were. And it is a very intentional way of parenting. Um, so you know, a lot of times we think we should be giving our opinions and get, you know, teaching and training, which we do need to do, but a lot of times we have to sort of train ourselves to listen to learn, and that is so hard.

Dori Durbin: Yes. Yeah, 'cause you want... I, I think this is, goes to the heart of what you're trying to teach parents, is we want to react. We want to have almost, like, this control over the situation. Mm-hmm. But if you're trying to do that, you're not really seeing what's happening, right? 

Sue Donnellan: Oh, absolutely. And I... You know, control was [00:11:00] something that was a big stumbling block for me, because I'm a Type A and I'm an entrepreneur.

Sue Donnellan: I'm in sales and, you know, in being an entrepreneur, every decision I make is, you know, actionable at that moment. I don't have to get a committee, I don't have to sh- run it by anybody else. Um, and so yeah, you, you are... You know, I make jokes in my book about how I was sort of addicted to that control because it's so much easier when you're an entrepreneur to...

Sue Donnellan: You're not used to delegating. And I had to do a lot of learning, uh, with the kids, and I had to really put my ego aside and learn how to let go of control, and learn how to delegate and how beneficial it is for the kids. 

Dori Durbin: I, I think, I love that you are bringing in the business aspect of this too, because the, that...

Dori Durbin: When you talk about being an entrepreneur and having a business, I think there are so many things that you have to have, um, your thumb on. And when you're parenting, you still [00:12:00] feel kind of that same kind of level of accountability. Um, you're raising these kids. You're tr- you know, trying to develop them into the p- the successful and happy and, you know, all of the things that you want them to be as adults.

Dori Durbin: And you... It does, it feels like if you don't control and keep your fingers on, everything's gonna fall apart. Uh, but that's, that is a lot of weight on people. And we were talking before the podcast about how so many families are so, so, so busy. There's so many things going on in their lives. And so, if making a quick, rash decision just kind of feels good, it feels like a relief at times, but you're not necessarily benefiting the kids.

Dori Durbin: So, how do we tell the difference between when we should be helping and, like, curtailing them, and when we should be opening our hands and letting them make decisions? 

Sue Donnellan: Well, that's very nuanced. Um, and it's, it, it's based on, you know, different situations. I ended up getting trained in Montessori practices, you know, Montessori [00:13:00] philosophy and principles, and that, that type of approach to parenting is very, um, independence building, very capability building, and, you know, that type of thing.

Sue Donnellan: So there is a time when you let go. However, you know, we talk about leadership, what does a, what does a leader in the family do? You know, we, we set the systems. We set the tone. We create the culture of the home, and then the, the kids kind of have that freedom within the boundaries of the culture that we're creating.

Sue Donnellan: But also, I feel like in, in the home, you know, when we're trying to let go of some of that control, we're trying to allow them to make their own choices. You know, like I said, we do the freedom within boundaries, so we'll set the boundary, but they're independently making their own decisions, and they're able to have a consequence or, you know, they know their boundary, but they get that freedom within to be able to choose and see how it works for them.

Dori Durbin: Ah, so and then probably the older they get, the more boundary [00:14:00] space they have. 

Sue Donnellan: It depends on the child. It depends on, you know, them earning it. And so one of the biggest things that I talk about in coaching, and this is so, so important, and it's, uh, without fail, almost every parent that I work with, the one thing they forget to do, that they don't even think of, is to ask their child And so they, we tend to, as parents, feel like we have to have all the answers.

Sue Donnellan: We feel like we are supposed to be deciding. W- you know, like you said, everybody's busy. Are we ... Are, are, are, you know, what activities are we doing? Um, what can I handle as a parent? And we take the biggest, most important piece of the puzzle out, which is ask the child. And I can't tell you how many times the child has such a, an amazing answer that we never thought of, or they will tell you how they feel.

Sue Donnellan: They already know how they feel, and we don't need to be thinking that we need to have all the answers, that we have to be [00:15:00] able to say, like, we're the be all end all, and this is how we're going to do it. While we're letting go of control, we're also bringing in collaboration because we're asking the child, "Well, what activities do you wanna do?

Sue Donnellan: Do you wanna do year-round volleyball? Do you wanna do year ... You know, how, how does your body feel?" Like, so asking the child and getting their input and incorporating that in not only shows the child respect, and not only brings in collaboration, but helps us make more informed decisions. And that is the number one thing that parents overlook, is asking the child and getting them involved.

Sue Donnellan: It's not like they're making the final decision, but I need to hear your input so we can be partners as we move forward and make decisions that suit all of us for the family. 

Dori Durbin: So while you were talking, I was thinking, okay, so is that for, you said volleyball was a, a great example. Um, it, would you also say that would be for disciplining, for daily activities?

Dori Durbin: Like, how w- I wanna ask you, I know it depends on the kid, though, what [00:16:00] is okay for me to give them a voice in? 

Sue Donnellan: Decisions, um, you know, how we do, we would do family meetings. I mean, definitely when it comes to discipline, you know, again, I'm creating the boundary, and the boundary is, you know, and, and I have a whole, I have a whole thing about earned access and how we structure our home and systems to earn access to whatever it is the child wants.

Sue Donnellan: So I, I have a whole thing about, you know, parenting in advance, where we, we, we interrupt patterns and we m- have the decisions and the conversations upfront where we get, we, we get buy-in from the kids, and so forth. So discipline is a whole other conversation. No, I, I don't allow them to, to make final decisions there.

Sue Donnellan: But what I do allow is for their input. So in s- in, in one example, y- y- especially as, as, as the child gets older, say curfew is a big thing. I may ask them, what do you think is a good curfew? And of course depending on the [00:17:00] age they're gonna go, you know, midnight, 1:00 in the morning. I'm like, "Oh, you know what?

Sue Donnellan: I get that. I, I hear. I, yeah, I can imagine that, but we're gonna start at 10:00 and let's see if you can get yourself home at 10:00 on time." So we're gonna build that boundary of here's, you know, I hear you. You have a voice. I'm gonna dial it back to what I think is right. We're gonna have a reasonable conversation about it.

Sue Donnellan: They're not gonna disagree. You know, of course, you know, what 13-year-old is gonna be staying out until 1:00? You know, we have a good laugh over it. We settle on what I was originally going to do anyway, but now I'm not taking control. I'm not telling you what, what th- what, you know, we're doing. I'm bringing you in on the process I'm, I'm we- reeling it in to where I wanted it originally, and I'm setting it up to where you have to earn that you get home on time, and that you call me if something's happening and you're running late or, y- you know, you're relying on the dad to bring you home and he's not home yet.

Sue Donnellan: Like, whatever it is, you're calling me, you're keeping me informed, and you're showing me that responsibility. Now, that's [00:18:00] the freedom within boundary. But I'm, I'm soliciting their contribution, uh, so they, it, really what that does is it sort of wipes out their need for control and their need for rebellion because we're having a, a respectful conversation.

Sue Donnellan: And that, you know, and that, that, that can work at every age. If, you know, when, when they're young, what is it they want? If they're five and they want screen time, you know, to play on YouTube, watch car- cartoons or whatever, but they want, um, but they're not getting off, but they want their snack, like whatever.

Sue Donnellan: We, we're always looking at how do we restructure communication and the, the events of the home so that the thing that I need done, the toys picked up or whatever it is I need them to do, gets done prior to what it is they want. 

Dori Durbin: I love that. I love that you gave us those examples at the different ages too, because I, I do think that sometimes kids do come up with better solutions than what we may come up with.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Uh-huh. Um, but yeah, if you've already got a plan in mind, and like, if it's feasible, um, for, for theirs to [00:19:00] possibly work, it, it just, you're giving them those leadership skills that you talked about, about collaboration, about, you know, um, just kind of the communication ends of things, of like what they're feeling, what they see.

Dori Durbin: Um, that's awesome. I love that. Yeah. So that could start really young too. 

Sue Donnellan: If kids feel like they have a voice and that their opinion is heard, and you know, I know like in my generation seeing, you know, don't be, you know, be seen and not heard is how we all raise. And I don't, I think as a general rule, parents do forget to incorporate the kids, and they just feel like they're putting all this pressure on themselves like they need to have all the answers, and they need to be able to dole out the discipline that's gonna really show them that lesson, and ba-ba.

Sue Donnellan: You know, it's, it's all this stress and pressure that when you learn some new techniques and you learn some new ways, and you actually invite that collaboration and that, tho- their opinions and their ideas into the process, the behavior really starts to kinda calm down, and you're not seeing them [00:20:00] looking for attention in a variety of other non-productive ways.

Dori Durbin: It helps give them that voice and that, that feeling of acceptance and being heard, like you said. 

Sue Donnellan: Mm-hmm. 

Dori Durbin: I love that. So let me ask you this. I know you work with parents. What if you were to work with a child and you said you, there was one lesson that if you taught them this lesson in life, it would make relationships so much easier?

Dori Durbin: What would, so even if it's like you wish those parents would teach their kids this even 

Sue Donnellan: Oh, uh, if it's a child? 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Sue Donnellan: Yeah, I do work with teens. Um, I think basically just them understanding that their parents are just regular people and that just understanding where the parent is coming from. And I have, you know, a process of understanding that I'm only in control of me, I'm not in control of you.

Sue Donnellan: Mm-hmm. And that took me years to realize, and I teach it to parents so that they can learn how to intentionally detach and not take such personal ownership [00:21:00] over the decisions their kids make But I've also worked with teens, and teens need to know too that, you know, they're telling me about what their parents are or aren't doing, and how they're not listening, and how they're restrictive or whatever it is that the teen is up against.

Sue Donnellan: And I kind of help them think a little bit outside the fishbowl and, uh, and think outside the fact that, yes, you're in their home right now and we need to be respectful, but, you know, you're only in control of you. You're not in con- So what, whi- what areas in life do you have control over that you can change your perspective?

Sue Donnellan: Or what types of ski- Sentiment, no matter how old you are. 

Dori Durbin: You know, just the detaching piece of it, when you were talking about teens, I think about how, um, how reliant many teens are on each other. Mm-hmm. And decisions are made off of what, you know, somebody else, your friend tells you or what you are being advised.

Dori Durbin: My experience was, um, in my teenage years, was you heard the parents, and they're there, and they're gonna t- say the same thing over and over again. And then you go to your [00:22:00] friends for the information, and then you feel kind of trapped, like you have to make a d- you have to follow through, right? And I feel like if you had that concept of how to detach yourself from something, where you were making your own decisions, that would be very, very powerful in the teenage years and up and through college too.

Sue Donnellan: I think being able... And that instills confidence, and being able to instill that confidence at, in your child at every age. And sometimes when I'm working with teens, there has not really been a whole lot of emotional investment in this child. So I'm able to work with them and teach them some of the things that maybe were missed, in terms of just empowering them with their way of thinking, and with what kind of w- w- you know, what they're in charge of, and what they can do.

Sue Donnellan: And empowering them that they're not victims, they can think outside the box, they can plan for their future. Those types of ideas that are just no one's really ever told them, and it's, um, yeah, it's kind of sad. 

Dori Durbin: I think, uh, well, first of all, they're [00:23:00] lucky that they have you to be able to, you know, give them some of those things that they're missing, but it's probably a generational thing too.

Sue Donnellan: It is. Yeah, yeah. Mm. So it's... But, you know, um, I, I, I'm all about empowerment at any age. And so, and I also, when I'm working with parents, I love empowering the parents, and I love letting them know what they're capable of, and that you have the freedom to choose at any time. Parents really feel a lot of pressure, like they have to make the right decision, and, um, then they have to stick by it.

Sue Donnellan: And sometimes I just go, "You can change your mind today." Like, "Hey, that didn't work. Let's try this." There's no right or wrong answer. It's only what's right for you and what's working for you. That's it. And sometimes just being given that permission to, to switch it up or to feel like, "I don't have to have all the answers.

Sue Donnellan: And guess what? I can ask them. What are they thinking? Oh, I didn't think of that." So just sort of getting outside of our head a little bit and not putting all that pressure on ourselves, I think, is a super important effort- For, for [00:24:00] parents to hear as well. 

Dori Durbin: That's awesome. I love that. Well, you won't believe it, but we have one more question, but before I ask it- Mm-hmm

Dori Durbin: I really know that there's somebody out there who's like, "Ah, Dori didn't ask the question I really wanted to know. How do I get ahold of Sue and ask her myself?" So where are the best places for them to find you, find your books, all of the things, Sue? 

Sue Donnellan: Uh, I'm... My website is askmomparenting.com. I have everything on Ask Mom Parenting.

Sue Donnellan: I'm on Ask Mom Parenting for Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. I've got my podcast on YouTube, Ask Mom: The Parenting Podcast, and that's also on all the streamers, Spotify, Apple, all of the, all the things. 

Dori Durbin: Awesome. I love the title of that, by the way. I think that's fabulous. 

Sue Donnellan: Thank you. Thank you. 

Dori Durbin: So as I said, we have one more question, and I always like the last question to be kind of more of an action step.

Dori Durbin: So if a parent is currently hearing themselves in the conversation and they're saying to themselves, "I'm doing too much. I'm, I'm not doing things right. I'm reacting. [00:25:00] I'm doing all the things wrong," what is one thing that they could do today after the podcast that would be easy for them to relieve some of the stress, um, that they're experiencing as a parent?

Sue Donnellan: I think I, when we talked earlier about pattern interrupting, I would say zoom out, look at your day, identify where your most stressful moments are- And figure out how to reimagine them. In a lot of cases, I work with, I'm a former yeller, and that was what got me learning Montessori techniques. And so I'm a reformed yeller, and I was yelling all the time, and I knew that it wasn't working.

Sue Donnellan: I, I finally admitted that to myself. I had to kind of zoom out and go, "Okay, I admit that it's not working, and what am I gonna do differently?" You know? Uh, I talk with parents about if they're yelling, how to interrupt that pattern by looking. When we think we're yelling or we think we're reacting or we think we're stressed, we feel like that stressful moment is just [00:26:00] like an accident.

Sue Donnellan: Like, oh, it just, it's just, it's just happening. You know? It's, so we react. If you can zoom out in the moment and just take a minute to think about where's the pattern? Oh, you know what? When they get home from school, I really yell, or after dinner they don't do what I'm asking, that's when I really get mad or I'm really frustrated and it really stresses me out.

Sue Donnellan: Or, you know what? Waking up in the morning, I dread. That is my, my morning routine is really... So take a minute to interrupt that. You know, recognize the pattern and interrupt it. And when I say interrupt it, I mean ask yourself what other ways you can handle that high-stress moment. And I do, you know, I have a whole process that I teach parents on how to do that.

Sue Donnellan: But for the sake of the podcast and just teaching people, just, like, do that for yourself. Look at your day. Figure out how we can be proactive. Because the moments that we feel we're reacting right now feel like they're just, you know, happening by s- happenstance, but they're not. [00:27:00] It's a pattern. And you can look at your day and go, "You know what?

Sue Donnellan: In this phase of life, mornings are really kicking my butt. Like, I have, I cannot get these kids out on..." So then now let's reimagine how your morning can look. And again, bring your kids involved. Get your kids involved in the process. "Kids, mornings have gone off the rails. How do we fix this?" That's not my job I need your help.

Sue Donnellan: So I would say that's what I would tell a parent, and that is life-changing. 

Dori Durbin: I, I, I actually really love that. It's simple enough that they can try it- Mm-hmm ... and they're not risking anything, but you're also opening up this whole new opportunity for communication with your kids and- Yeah ... and yourself too.

Sue Donnellan: Yeah. Mm. It's a mindset, and it's just a different way of looking at things and a different way of approaching parenting that is just a little bit more systematic. Mm-hmm. 

Dori Durbin: Oh, that's awesome. I think the other thing we need to remember too is it's that we're not gonna solve it all at one time. [00:28:00]

Sue Donnellan: Right. 

Dori Durbin: Right?

Dori Durbin: And so if you can get a little bit of progress, a little bit each day, what is it? Like, 1% every day over the course of, you know, 30 days- Yeah ... 30% better, right? Um- Yeah ... it, it is doable. It is totally doable. And I love that you're a reformed yeller because- Yeah ... that gives a lot of hope too. 

Sue Donnellan: Yeah, yeah. I had to do the work.

Sue Donnellan: I had to recognize it, and I had to do the work. But that's what I'm saying, you know? It's nice to know that there's a lot of people out there that have written books or w- shared their content with what, what works for them, and, you know, can help s- save another parent the struggle of going through it and just make their lives a little bit easier.

Sue Donnellan: We are very, very stressed these days, and, um, so if I can help just one parent reimagine their day, their approach to parenting, their relationship with their kids, then I'm ecstatic. 

Dori Durbin: I love it. That's perfect. So Sue, I just wanna take a second and thank you. Thank you for taking the time today to talk to our audience, talking to our listeners.

Dori Durbin: Um, you gave us a lot of great [00:29:00] insight, a lot of valuable perspective that, like we said, if they just make one step, one little step, it'll definitely ease up some of the stress that they are experiencing, so thank you for that. 

Sue Donnellan: Thank you. I appreciate you having me and giving me a chance to share with any parents that are listening.

Dori Durbin: Absolutely. Listeners, I have one more thing for you. If you would like to help shape your opinions on children's books that are parenting experts and other professionals who are creating these books, we actually had one released today, uh, Murphy Makes a Mistake. Yay. Love for you to join our free That's Good Parenting club.

Dori Durbin: As a member of the club, you can preview upcoming children's books, vote on ideas, share your feedback, and even join launch teams, which is really, really super exciting. You'll find the link in today's show notes. And really thank you again so much, Sue Donnellan, for your time today. You are amazing. 

Sue Donnellan: Thank you.

Sue Donnellan: Appreciate being here. 

Dori Durbin: And that's a wrap for today on That's Good Parenting. I hope you find one moment where you can say [00:30:00] at the end of your day, "Now that, that was good parenting." Talk to you soon.