Dori Durbin: [00:00:00] Welcome to That's Good Parenting, the podcast where we search for simple steps to reduce your parenting stress. I'm your host, Dori Durbin, children's book illustrator, book coach, and podcaster. I help parenting experts take their biggest ideas and kid-size them into children's books that families can continue learning from long after this podcast is over.

Dori Durbin: Parents, we're in about a month into the school year now, so those backpacks have been broken in, the routines are getting a little more familiar, and that first excitement of going back to school might be just starting to wear off a little bit. And this is so often when some of the questions that parents have really start showing up.

Dori Durbin: So maybe your child suddenly doesn't want to go to school in the morning. Maybe you're seeing some meltdowns after school or struggles with homework, changes in behavior, or you're just wondering if you should reach out to the school or the teacher about something that you're seeing. So what would a school superintendent really love for parents to know as we move through these first [00:01:00] months?

Dori Durbin: Well, guess what? Today we're gonna find out. My guest today is Tom Durbin, superintendent of Hudson Area Schools in Hudson, Michigan. With over 30 years of educational experiences, including six in middle school and 10 years of high school, plus all his administration experience, Tom's got a pretty good perspective on what goes on in the lives of families and educators, especially within those first few months of school.

Dori Durbin: So today we're gonna talk about what Tom sees from the school side of things, what parents may not always realize is happening behind the scenes, and some of the simple things that we can do to help our kids have a successful school year. Tom Durbin, welcome to That's Good Parenting. 

Tom Durbin: Dori, it is such a privilege and a pleasure to be back and to be here, and congratulations on all that you're doing with this podcast.

Tom Durbin: I think you're nearing, what, 175 episodes pretty 

Dori Durbin: soon? 72. Uh-huh. 

Tom Durbin: Uh-huh. Yeah. So it's an honor. 

Dori Durbin: Thank you. Well, he's very sweet, and I did not pay him for that compliment, . So Tom, some of the [00:02:00] things that happen typically in the beginning of the school year, just like I said, are, parents are starting to kind of settle into the routine.

Dori Durbin: The kids are starting to squeak about the routine. And let's face it, school gets a little bit harder after those first few weeks so what are some common issues that you see that parents are coming to you especially with at this point in the year? 

Tom Durbin: Yeah, first of all, I think that parenting is one of the hardest jobs ever, if not the most difficult, and I think there's so much going on in families' lives.

Tom Durbin: It's not just school, but that's a big chunk of the day, but then there's after-school activities. There's all those other things that, that are going on and that pull at families, and it's just a lot. But I believe everybody comes into the school year with hope and the- belief that this is gonna be a great year.

Tom Durbin: And then as you said, we get into f- you know, the first month, first six weeks of school, depending on what part of the country you're in, those type of things. Like, and now some of the old [00:03:00] behavior patterns turn up, and it can lead to some frustrations. It can lead to, you know, sometimes in the kids' minds of like, "Well, I really tried," and oh, and how they see themselves, and how parents see themselves.

Tom Durbin: And so yeah, it's challenging. 

Dori Durbin: So are those frustrations showing up as typically as behavior problems? Are they typically showing up as meltdowns, like, "I'm, I don't wanna go"? Like, what do you hear or see a lot of parents coming in and saying?

Tom Durbin: Yeah, and so, you know, in, in my new position as superintendent this year, if it reaches my desk- now it's become a problem that hasn't been solved I always say I don't have as many fires, but the flames get, are a little bit bigger sometimes. So those flames are l- like, oh, like we're really frustrated.

Tom Durbin: We want it to go well, so what's not happening? And I, what I really find is there's some communication things. 

Dori Durbin: Communication. So parents are supposed to talk to the schools. Well, and I say that jokingly because I think far too often, I experienced [00:04:00] this too when our kids were in school, we, we let the fires burn a little bit under our collars, right?

Dori Durbin: And we're like, oh, you know, we're muttering under our breath about something happening, and then something else happens, and then something else, and it's like that burr that just keeps growing bigger and bigger until there's like an actual blister under there, and it's, you're just fired up.

Dori Durbin: So when we're talking about talking to schools, do you have any advice about when we should reach out to schools, or when it's more of the kids' situation, they've gotta figure this out? When do we step in as parents? 

Tom Durbin: That's a great question. And I always say, you know your child best, right?

Tom Durbin: And I think so many people are afraid of being that parent. They're like I don't wanna call the s- school, you know, 27 times a week and let- Mm-hmm ... let 'em know it's, you know, everything is- 

Dori Durbin: It's you again. Yeah. Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: But let's kind of break it down a little bit between the age groups. 

Tom Durbin: And so, in elementary, kids don't mind if your parents are involved. Once you hit that middle school, high [00:05:00] school, they wanna solve things more themselves, or they just don't wanna be embarrassed that their, their parent is involved, right? Mm-hmm. But at, no matter at, at what stage, I think if you see that something is not going well with your, your child or your student, don't let it go too long.

Tom Durbin: Don't let the, the small problem become a really big one to that point of like you said, like a blister, and now you're, you're fired up and, you know, you walk in or make a call to the administration or the teacher or, or whoever it is, and they're like, "Oh, this is, this is new to me." And then that's like, well, why is this new to me?

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Tom Durbin: Or new to them. Like, uh, we've been struggling with this for years. So I just think- Gauging that, yes. I think your point was great about we want students to be able to learn how to deal with their own problems. A- and that's part of as parents and part of as educators, like, we wanna arm them with those skills.

Tom Durbin: The mindset and don't be a victim and, but all that comes back to expressing what's [00:06:00] going on. Mm-hmm. And so I think for parents, getting back to your original question, is if it goes beyond, like, okay, now my student doesn't want to go to school because something happened.

Tom Durbin: Not because they just don't like school, but because there's an interaction with another student, there's an interaction with an adult that really doesn't make them wanna go. Now that's a pretty good cue to s- to call. Mm-hmm. And either follow chain command, but talk with the teacher, talk with the principal, and try to get some resolution.

Dori Durbin: So if I start to notice something is up other... I mean, I'm assuming the very first step is just to talk to the child, get as much information as you can. I know reality, sometimes you're not gonna get the whole story. You're just gonna get bits and pieces. That's reality. But to start to have that conversation of, of kind of poking at what's really at the heart of the situation.

Dori Durbin: But then once that's done, is the next step talking to you? Or should it be talking to the classroom teacher [00:07:00] or the adult in that situation the closest to it? 

Tom Durbin: I think starting with closest to it, because that's how you're gonna get the most immediate , right? So if it's, if it's a classroom teacher, especially at the elementary, reaching out saying, "Hey, my son or daughter said this, and can you tell me what you know about it?"

Tom Durbin: You know, that's a kind of a open-ended good way to approach it. And then if that doesn't get resolution, talking with the principal. And then I get calls and they haven't talked to the teacher or parents haven't talked to the teacher or the, the principal, and I will always listen, but I'm always gonna refer back.

Dori Durbin: Yeah, so it'd take longer almost to come to you first, right? 

Tom Durbin: It does. It puts it on the radar- 

Dori Durbin: Yeah ... 

Tom Durbin: for 

Dori Durbin: sure. Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: And I always tell parents, "I will follow up, but, you know, who can I get in... How can I help you get in contact with- the person can immediately affect it?" And then I will follow up and see how it goes.

Tom Durbin: And what I find is most of the time, I'm ... They just need somebody to [00:08:00] hear them. 

Tom Durbin: And that's what we all want, right? To be heard. But let's go to the, the most, you know- 

Dori Durbin: Immediate ... 

Tom Durbin: the immediate. Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: Absolutely. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah, 'cause I was thinking, even on the bus, I mean, your child is coming home and they're, they don't wanna go to school in the morning, and let's say there's something that happened on the bus that you didn't know about, like, really the first step is to talk to the bus driver and not to jump to you, because you have to go back, you have to talk to the bus driver.

Dori Durbin: Like, you're doing the extra legwork but maybe it could've been solved with just one conversation. And not that I'm saying you can't do that. You can. Right. I know you're totally capable of that. But you probably got other stuff, and so it kind of pushes that out further in a way really if we're gonna teach our kids to advocate for themselves, we're modeling to them, "Hey, I went to, the source of what the situation seems to be or at least the person responsible for that, that condition," and I'm teaching them how to verbally handle the situation.

Dori Durbin: Which actually brings me to another point, because I'm sure, [00:09:00] especially when you were teaching and as a, a principal- you probably had those, those emails and those phone calls where somebody was really ... That, that blister got pretty hot 

Speaker 4: Yeah 

Dori Durbin: And they're, they're responding to you in a way of almost \ outrage over something that, again, maybe you - did not know about.

Dori Durbin: But it also puts the teacher and the principal at a disadvantage and sort of like like getting stabbed in the middle of the night you didn't know it was coming kind of thing. Like you didn't know there was a problem. So talk to me a little bit about that. Like what, what can parents do that's a little bit different, a little bit more proactive instead of reactive?

Tom Durbin: Sure. No, that, that's a great question. Those things happen and it goes back to parents, "I don't wanna be that parent." Or y- we all bring our experiences with school- Mm ... to the table. 

Tom Durbin: You know? And for some, there's trauma there. There's, not great memories. And so it's, you can get nervous just getting a call from the principal, whether it's good or bad.

Tom Durbin: Mm-hmm. You can get nervous just walking into the school. You can get nervous walking into the principal's [00:10:00] office. You 

Speaker 4: know, let 

Tom Durbin: it- I've had a lot of those conversations. And, I haven't met a principal yet that doesn't really try to bring down those emotions and just, we want to partner. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah.

Tom Durbin: For the benefit of the child. And so, what can they do- is communicate, like I said, kind of early and, and often on that. 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Tom Durbin: But just saying, and giving the teacher or the principal a little bit of background information. You don't have to give the whole life story of, of your child.

Tom Durbin: That's sometimes helpful. But knowing what is behind that, just oh, the ... It kind of clues us in, like, okay if it's a behavior issue, like, oh, okay. Well, they have a problem with this child or,

Dori Durbin: because the historical kind of thing. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Mm-hmm. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. And so we've also had conversation with parents of like, hey, if

Tom Durbin: I'll use Tommy for example. Little Tom. Little Tom. If Tommy wakes up and is having a terrible morning- ... and we know that [00:11:00] that spills b- into school, a heads-up to the teacher- 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm ... 

Tom Durbin: is like, okay, then they can kind of diffuse that a little bit or give it space or whatever Tommy needs in that m- that morning- Mm

Tom Durbin: to get right. That's always a good communication as well. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. I remember bringing the kids in, and this is just a side note. This is so sad. Uh, one of our cats was hit on the road- Mm ... and we're headed into school. And I remember at the time debating, do I take my child in? My child, it was Liv, and she was crying and- I was like, I know, like, for the first hour or two of school any information is not going anywhere.

Dori Durbin: The, the information systems are blocked right now by the emotions. And I called the school and I said, "I don't know what to do." And they said, "You know what? Bring her at lunch if she's ready." You know, it was the coolest thing, and it was, like, something where, like, my reaching out and just saying, "My child is distressed right now, and I'm asking [00:12:00] you for advice as to, like, what I should do.

Dori Durbin: What is the next best thing?" They were really sensitive to that. And it was like, "Well, it, it doesn't make any sense for her to come in and try to force herself through the day yet." 

Dori Durbin: And if she needs the whole day, take the whole day." Like, it, it surprised me, and I think that a lot of times we assume that, that educators are so business-oriented, like, they're gonna knock through some of these things, and that, uh, the emotional side is gonna get blocked over the educational side, but that's really not true.

Dori Durbin: And so, trying to give our kids the opportunity to see the school in a different light, that's an opportunity right there, for them to be humanized. 

Tom Durbin: Oh, you're absolutely right, and I think, you know, most schools, most teachers would absolutely sympathize and empathize with that. And sometimes that's, that's not possible to bring them in later.

Tom Durbin: Like- 

... 

Tom Durbin: Um, mom or dad has to work, or, hey, how... I n- I know they just got on the bus and they drove by and saw [00:13:00] that, beloved cat, I think it was Sweetie- 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. Yeah ... 

Tom Durbin: was hit. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: And they're coming to school and they might be a wreck. Like, absolutely we want, we wanna know about that. 

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Tom Durbin: And we will get them to the right person and kind of work, work through that. And I think that's a g- that's a great example, but doesn't have to be anything tragic either. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. I mean- Well, I was thinking some people might not, not have heard the term partnering. What does it mean to partner with the school?

Tom Durbin: Another great question. Yes. Of I think it, we're after the same common goal and, and that is we want a community of support for every learner and so that they can achieve and, and fulfill their potential, right?

Tom Durbin: Parents want that. Like, you want the best for your student, for your child. And we want that for the- for them, too. And so for each, each family, each student, that might look a little bit different, right? Mm. And we know we have, we have families where they're, the kids are going between two houses. You know, it's just a reality and- 

Speaker 4: Hmm

Tom Durbin: nobody really [00:14:00] sets out wanting that for anybody. But, uh, all right, Tommy left his backpack at dad's house and won't have his homework. Maybe it's his computer. Won't have his computer for another three days. How do we navigate that? Hmm. And if we know that, hey, we can help solve that problem. Yeah. So partnership just means sh- sharing information and then building a plan- 

Dori Durbin: That 

Tom Durbin: we can,

Dori Durbin: do you find that a lot of parents feel like when their kids get out of elementary, that the part- they don't have to have a partnership anymore? Like, I don't know, it's kinda like this weird, like, when your kids in a, are in elementary, you're, like, scooping alongside them like eagles or helicopters or- You know, like, you're, you're probably in the way almost to the point where you just want to be helpful.

Dori Durbin: And then they get into middle school and high school, and I'm probably just speaking for myself there. But you get into middle school and high school, and you're kind of like, "Oh, now I'm the, I don't want my child to have that, that image of mom hanging out anymore." [00:15:00] And I think that, that was, like, kind of a little bit, like, of a reality check for me, where I still wanted to be involved, but I just didn't know what to do.

Dori Durbin: I didn't know how to be involved without being in the way for my child's sanity, but also, like, I really didn't know what opportunities were there for me. So you wanna talk a little bit about that for, you know- Yeah ... the older kids? Like, what does that look like? 

Tom Durbin: Sure. Yeah. It's, you described the reality really well and I, I get this image of, football players stiff-arming somebody, and that's, that's what kids do.

Tom Durbin: 'Cause, like, when you go from- Elementary ... junior high or, or from elementary to middle school or junior high, it's like the stiff-arm. Mm-hmm. Like, "Okay, Mom, I got it. You don't have to walk me into the school," or "You can drop me a block from the school. I'm, I'm, that's cool." "

Dori Durbin: Let me walk to school," as a matter of fact.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. "Let me, 

Tom Durbin: let me walk. It's a mile, but, uh, it's cool. I, it's good." No, it's, and I think as parents w- we feel that, but then also we remember what it was like to be in middle school, even though we might have repressed a lot of those [00:16:00] years 'cause it's the hardest time of life. But we remember not wanting our parents involved.

Tom Durbin: And so sometimes w- we also take that, "Well, I'm, I'm just gonna give you space," and then kids aren't necessarily ready for all of that freedom either. Like, they still need guidance in getting their work done and- 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm ... 

Tom Durbin: how to be organized and those things. And, and then, too, the other kinda reality is since the pandemic, When the pandem- pan...

Tom Durbin: Excuse me, when the pandemic was happening we couldn't have parents at school. 

Tom Durbin: So schools got used to doing things without as much- Mm ... parents in the school volunteering and being a part of it. And guess what? We still need volunteers. We s- we're always looking for people at recess, um, just to extra hands sometimes, lunchtime.

Tom Durbin: So I think at the elementary, there's, there's definitely more opportunities, you know, to volunteer. But just asking too, just sending, "Hey, I would like to help. How can I be of help?" 

Speaker 4: Yeah. [00:17:00]

Tom Durbin: And if you have time. But we also know, a lot, lots of households, both parents work, and they're working long hours, or it's a single parent and they have to work.

Tom Durbin: But, but just saying, even if it's being on a newsletter, even if it's like, how do we stay connected and tethered? 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. I, I feel like there'd be, um, opportunity for after school event help than like, like if there's a big event coming up, like homecoming is always such a big deal at schools.

Dori Durbin: And like, you know, I remember thinking, "Oh, I should make cookies," or, "I should like do some..." You know, just, just being around, having your presence there and supporting the other kids too is kind of a cool way to be able to be part of what's going on. Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: And there's still parent groups. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: You know, we, we still have a, a middle school or junior high parent group that, does events.

Dori Durbin: Mm. 

Tom Durbin: And looking for volunteers to be at the dances. 

Dori Durbin: Oh, yeah. 

Tom Durbin: And we do have- Let 

Dori Durbin: me watch your middle school dance. Come on, everyone. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah, you would be [00:18:00] surprised. It's, there's flocking to the school for those. No, but and I think even though students say, "We don't want you involved." 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: "Don't embarrass me," and things like that.

Tom Durbin: Even just knowing that you're asking and you want to, it means something. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: You know, whether, whether you volunteer at that, at that dance or not. But there's still a lot of jobs at the school that parents can help with and be a part of, and we wanna welcome parents in. You know? I, 

Dori Durbin: I would volunteer to be the one that puts the life sa- life preserver around- Yeah

Dori Durbin: the couples to see if there's enough space. That would be great. 

Tom Durbin: Or in be- yeah. 

Dori Durbin: In between them. Yeah. So another thing that came to my mind too is just even, um, parent-teacher conferences. 

Dori Durbin: I re- I remember parent-teacher conferences when I was teaching. The first parent-teacher conference was always so busy.

Dori Durbin: There were parents swarming, right? They're lined up waiting to talk to the teachers 'cause it's, like, the first marking period. Everybody's worried. And then the [00:19:00] second parent-teacher conference, it was like you could hang out and talk to the teacher for two hours if you wanted 'cause there was hardly anybody waiting.

Tom Durbin: Crickets. 

Dori Durbin: Yes. And so I think having that investment and having that communication there face-to-face, but also just in emails too of, like- Mm-hmm ... like, checking in. Like, you don't wanna check up, but maybe checking in if there's something that seems different with how your student is performing or how they're coming home or...

Dori Durbin: It's especially hard in middle and high school though, I think. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah, I think so. I think so too. And if you can, so two scenarios. One, you can make parent-teacher conferences 'cause a lot of parents are working or there's so much going on or it's hard to make it. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: But to your point of, like, reaching out and saying, "Okay, I can't, I can't attend parent-teacher conferences.

Tom Durbin: But what would you say if I was? And what do you need to know about my child?" 

Dori Durbin: Mm-hmm. Or could we meet a different time? 

Tom Durbin: Sure. Absolutely. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. Yeah, because it, it becomes a almost like a [00:20:00] calculus problem. 

Dori Durbin: Mm. 

Tom Durbin: Trying to get- if you're a middle school, high school teacher, you have 100-plus students, and you only have s- so much time.

Tom Durbin: And, it comes out to, you know, 3.2 minutes per family. 

Dori Durbin: Oh my gosh, that's so ... no time at all. 

Tom Durbin: I mean, 

Dori Durbin: it really- You barely just got my kid's name out, right? 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. Or I know we've had to go to, "Here's a signup genius." And, you know, you're gonna meet with a group of teachers and, but my student's really struggling in math or- 

Dori Durbin: So you need to do that

Tom Durbin: and I, I really wanna just talk with the math teacher for five minutes. Mm-hmm. And it's like you feel rushed. And so don't let that be a barrier to more conversation. 

Dori Durbin: Mm-hmm. 

Tom Durbin: So, and if you do come to parent-teacher conferences, you're able to do that, bring your child. 

Dori Durbin: Mm. Put them on the hot seat? '

Tom Durbin: Cause it is about them.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: And so many times, it's like a, like a three-legged stool, so to speak. One leg's the teacher, one leg's the parents- The parent ... and one [00:21:00] leg is the student, um, if there's a story to be told. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: Right? Like, "Oh, hey, what's going on with your homework?" "Well, my student says this," and they're not sitting there it's a really good habit. Also s- for, and model for the student of, like, here's how you talk through things. 

Tom Durbin: And this is how adults talk, and here's how we work through stuff and good or bad. And, we gravitate towards the problem and then we wanna navigate what that is.

Tom Durbin: But we gravitate towards talking what the problems are. Sometimes even in this podcast I'm focusing- Mm-hmm ... on, like, okay, how do we partner? Well, if there's a problem. 

Dori Durbin: Right. 

Tom Durbin: Instead of saying, okay, 

Dori Durbin: hey- Your kid's actually really good at some 

Tom Durbin: of this stuff ... when there's really things that are going really well.

Tom Durbin: And talking about that.

Dori Durbin: Well, that brings up an interesting point too, because, um, when we were talking about parent-teacher conferences and going into the parent-teacher conference or even what you say at home, you're like, "Well, okay, so you're in this fifth grade math that I don't get, but it's okay 'cause I never understood math anyway."

Dori Durbin: I don't get math and, and I was always bad at this or I was always bad at that. And then you take that with you, [00:22:00] not only at home, but you take it to the parent-teacher conferences and they're like, "Well, Johnny," oh, I'm sorry, Tom, little Tom, "does not like math and it's genetic. It's just nobody- ... in our whole family has ever, like, nobody's ever been able to...

Dori Durbin: I don't even balance my checkbook as a matter of fact, Mrs. Green. How's that?" You know. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: So what's, let's talk about that a little bit, bringing those, those comments in. What does that do for you or against you? 

Tom Durbin: Yeah, it's an outstanding point, and you as a former teacher. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: I know you would have those conversations as well, and I would always just kinda cringe a little bit when- Oh, yeah

Tom Durbin: parents would say that. One, sorry, that wasn't a good experience, you know. And, and but two, that doesn't mean it's a, it's a hangup or a deficiency or something negative for the student. 

Tom Durbin: Right? But if they're hearing that, "Well, I was never good at math," then they take on that, "Well, I m- I must not be good either."

Dori Durbin: It's okay if I'm not. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: It's good. Yeah. Even though they're probably brilliant at it. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. And so letting your, your child find their [00:23:00] own path and supporting. And that's where we partner really well. Mm-hmm. We want partnering with schools and, I'd be a, a miss if I didn't say, you know, our mission is, the statement is, your path, our mission.

Tom Durbin: Mm-hmm. Like, and I think Hudson was doing long before I got there of really providing so many opportunities for different ways to learn and different ways to find that. But that's what we ultimately wanna do. We wanna help students find what they're good at, develop it, and then help them launch, right?

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: Discover, develop, and launch. Like, that's- 

Dori Durbin: Yeah ... 

Tom Durbin: that's a, a formula we, we all live by. And I think that's what parents want too. They want their pr- their students to be successful. They want them to be happy. 

Dori Durbin: I had a lady on once And she was talking about careers down the road, and it was really interesting because one of the things she said was when you go and talk to your teacher ask what your kids are doing really well in the s- in the class. And maybe, maybe it's math maybe they don't love math, but they're really good at [00:24:00] coordinating groups, or they're really good at keeping the, the group organized. Or maybe they're good at presenting in front of the class.

Dori Durbin: And her whole point was those skills that your kids are good at, even in the subjects they're not good at, are skills that are transferable into jobs. And what I love about Hudson is that you are not only are having your traditional school opportunities, but you have your other opportunities that really highlight and give kids a chance to explore exactly what it is that they could be doing.

Dori Durbin: So I really, I didn't intend to do this, but let's talk about those. Let's talk about those other programs. 

Tom Durbin: I would love to. 

Dori Durbin: I bet you would. 

Tom Durbin: Thanks for asking. No, I, I think- it's unlocking what, what works. 

Tom Durbin: Right? And so yeah, we offer the traditional classroom that we all kind of went through.

Tom Durbin: We offer some online opportunities, and so many schools offer online. Or we offer hybrid. You can go to traditional math class first period, go take an online class second period, back to [00:25:00] traditional third period, off to the, the tech center or, you know, career technical education, the CTE classes to explore and to get hands-on experience that way.

Tom Durbin: We have our new Hudson Studio, which for seventh and eighth graders is project-based learning- Mm ... and more competency-based grading. 

Dori Durbin: What does project-based learning mean? 'Cause let's say I don't know. I, you know- Sure ... I know, but let's say- 

Tom Durbin: Yeah, I talk about it all the time. 

Dori Durbin: I... Tell our listeners what that is, Tom.

Tom Durbin: Yeah, no, it's, it's more like, students are given a problem, and instead of just going to, okay, you go to math class, then you go to English class, then you go to history and science, et cetera, you know, the normal seven-period day, they'll spend a big block of time and they're given a problem to solve and work through, and they do it in groups.

Tom Durbin: So you're getting, group work. You're getting problem-solving abilities, plus a different approach to thinking about the subject matter. 

Dori Durbin: And they're not- So it might be like, how do we get water to the entire community [00:26:00] if something happens? Like, they solve a situation. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Okay. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. And for example, one of the, one of the problems that they were presented with was in Hudson, we don't have a- we're out of housing.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Tom Durbin: Where can more housing be built? Where could all these things kind of come together and, and to solve the problem. And they came up with a, a really good solution, presented to the city council. 

Speaker 4: Ooh,

Tom Durbin: um, so they get presentation experience. They get putting it together, but also public speaking- 

Tom Durbin: Which has to be developed, you know? 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Tom Durbin: And we're all fearful of at, at some, some point or at some level. And then, um, but also solving problems. So that's just some of the things that- 

Dori Durbin: And they're there in this program the whole day? 

Tom Durbin: Well, they g- they get elective classes. So let's say they wanna take carpentry.

Tom Durbin: Mm. So just how we're set up in, in our, um, the campus that they're at is an old manufacturing. Uh, it's really nice. [00:27:00] It's not old. 

Dori Durbin: It's beautiful, actually. You know? Yeah, it's beautiful. 

Tom Durbin: But it's just doing school differently. So- 

Dori Durbin: So talk about that end of it. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah, so in, we call it CSI, Center for Science and Industry.

Tom Durbin: But in that houses so many different programs. So one level we have our alternative school, which is 6th through 12th grade online, but they just need the core requirements. The, for high school it's 18 Michigan Merit Curriculum core requirements that they have. It's not all the electives, right?

Tom Durbin: So that, that's at one level. Another level is more the, the hands-on lab. So the CTE classes like the engineering class, cybersecurity. That's where our 6th through 12th grade carpentry classes are. Projects lead the way. And then also our fitness classes, so we have a big fitness. Half of it is a fitness center.

Dori Durbin: Oh my gosh, you guys should see it. It's huge. It's got turf. It's got nets. Yeah. It's got beautiful cages. Oh, yeah, it's [00:28:00] amazing. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. It, it is just- 

Dori Durbin: Smells new 

Tom Durbin: It smells new. It's absolutely just a difference maker for our students in the community- 

Dori Durbin: Yeah ... 

Tom Durbin: right? Because it's not just students use it, teams come in and use it, the batting cages, um, our youth sports use it.

Tom Durbin: If it's raining outside they can still have practice. There's a fitness center for the community. 

Speaker 4: Attached to it. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Tom Durbin: And so yeah, there's so many opportunities for students- Mm ... you know, in addition to our traditional schools. And, and it's been attractive, so we actually have some really good problems where we're out of space.

Dori Durbin: They can build it. You've got this crew. 

Tom Durbin: We've got the crew. No, and you know what? Students are gonna be taking on some building projects later in the year. And we've got some state grants to kind of help, help with that, those CTE funds and that type of thing. But really what we're seeing is in those- m- sixth through 10th grade years, um, really getting as many experiences as they [00:29:00] can.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Tom Durbin: Um, and whether that's the hands-on learning or, you know, we try to run them through as many different electives focused towards career exploration. We just are really, really blessed with this great space- Mm-hmm ... that we can do it differently. 

Dori Durbin: It's so cool. Yeah, Bryson and I got a tour. And she loved it.

Dori Durbin: She thought it was amazing. I thought it was pretty g- uh, pretty cool myself. Um, but yeah, the machinery, the opportunities was really neat. And I love that you could be a high school student, well i- middle school too- 

... 

Dori Durbin: And you could go to school and do some classes and go back to school. Like, it's right there.

Dori Durbin: It's like a bus ride, three-minute, five-minute bus ride away . 

Tom Durbin: It literally is, because we run, uh, buses seven periods a day back and forth. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: And in-housed in, in that campus also is we have a partnership with Family Medical- 

... 

Tom Durbin: Center, and so they provide counseling and doctor appointments.

Tom Durbin: So let's say your, your student's not they may not be feeling great, but they're not... It's not enough to keep them from [00:30:00] t- home from school or it's just onset, they, we can make an appointment, they can ride the bus over. Or if they have, um, counseling- 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm ... 

Tom Durbin: you know- 

... 

Tom Durbin: Then it's just a convenience for parents.

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: You know, they, somebody that's like I said, working hard and they can't get there after school or whatever, like we can do it during school. 

Dori Durbin: That's amazing. That's amazing. 

Tom Durbin: So- Yeah ... 

Dori Durbin: okay. So like if you're going to Hudson. 

Tom Durbin: If 

Dori Durbin: you're. If you're not, maybe you should think about it. But- ... either way- 

Tom Durbin: Thank you for the plug, 

Dori Durbin: yes

Dori Durbin: you're welcome. You're welcome. So Tom, these are all... I mean, what we initially started talking about was coming into the first month of school and some of the issues. Mm-hmm. Are there other things that you think that parents should know as far as just navigating some of the, the problems? What are some things that you feel like, gosh, if I could, if I could h- give just a general directions to people as far as like making the school year actually go really as smoothly as possible, what would be a couple other things that you would wanna make sure you [00:31:00] mentioned?

Tom Durbin: Yeah. Great question. My, my mind reels to so many things. But just anticipate that there's gonna be some type of conflict along the way. 

Tom Durbin: Not intentional. 

Dori Durbin: It's 

Tom Durbin: just 

Dori Durbin: life. 

Tom Durbin: It's just life. 

Tom Durbin: Right? There's no such thing as 180 perfect days of the school year. 

Dori Durbin: My gosh, can you imagine? 

Tom Durbin: No, most of us would like one.

Dori Durbin: Like, three days of nice weather, much less 180 days of perfect- 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. But we know there's, there's stress in the morning. There's str- you know, getting kids out of bed, getting them up. Or for some families, like, the parents are off to work already and so bigger brother or sister has to get them off, or, or the younger siblings up and fed, and that's a lot of re- responsibility and it's stress.

Tom Durbin: And then, I always say, you know, to s- to students, even, even our own, our own kids keep showing up. 

Tom Durbin: It's so, it sounds so basic, but sometimes it's hard just to show up. 

Tom Durbin: But good things are gonna happen for that. And, and I think for parents too, [00:32:00] like, work through those conflicts.

Tom Durbin: I'll get back to my original point of like, yeah, we're not gonna have a perfect day. So how do we help our kids learn how, how to navigate through those? 

Tom Durbin: And we always want, we're always after creating critical thinkers and problem solvers. So those are opportunities to kind of show how do you do that.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Tom Durbin: Back to communication, back to helping the student say, "All right. If a problem comes, how am I gonna deal with that?" 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Tom Durbin: Someone calls me a name. Yes, we still have mean behavior 'cause we s- just have human beings. 

Speaker 4: It's human nature. Mm-hmm. 

Tom Durbin: You know? And in our buildings we have board of 800 kids that ain't gon- okay, that's a lot of kids.

Tom Durbin: We're just gonna have person, personal conflict. 

Tom Durbin: Like, how do we deal with that, okay? A- and you don't have to face things alone. So when, when the problem feels too big how do you deal with it? Or I don't know how to do my homework. What do you do? Just don't go to AI. I love [00:33:00] AI and the opportunities it provides.

Tom Durbin: But not to substitute the learning, not to substitute the critical thinking. So help them, that's probably the biggest rock is like we're, we wanna create critical thinkers and problem solvers, and parents, parents do too. 

Tom Durbin: I think your question was some other things we may not have, have covered - Yeah

Tom Durbin: and want parents to know is and then- Providing them as many experiences as we can. Like, uh, we talked about the career exploration, but also that means being around different careers and, I would love to see where we, where we can school relate if kids go job shadow you or- 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm ... 

Tom Durbin: grandpa or Uncle Fred or a friend of the family just to experience kind of what that...

Tom Durbin: That can be some of the most valuable learning experience there is. 

Tom Durbin: And doesn't cost really any money, right? 

Dori Durbin: You, you remember the show Mike Rowe, the Dirty Jobs show? 

Tom Durbin: Oh, I love Mike Rowe, yes. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah, so I was just thinking how I think our kids learned a lot just from watching that. Not that this is what [00:34:00] you need to...

Dori Durbin: I mean, you should watch it, but just seeing jobs that you're curious about, you either learn that you really would envision yourself doing it or you really wouldn't ever wanna do it. And I think that's, to your point of following aunts, uncles, people that you know, all of those things, those are those kinds of experiences that we can provide for our kids that help them filter out what they're gonna be happy doing.

Dori Durbin: And gives them hope in school. Like, if they're in sixth grade and they hate school, what's gonna get them through the next six years if they hate every single day of it? But if they can see it as, like, a progressive step towards something- 

Speaker 4: Yeah ... 

Dori Durbin: that's a huge difference. That's a lifetime of, like, six years of their life that is improved in, not instantly, but, but it gives them a sense of hope and, like, purpose when they're there.

Tom Durbin: Yeah, I think hope is what fuels us. And I, I- Mm ... I think, and sometimes it's tough for, a 11 or 12 year old to say, "Okay, when you graduate," that's so far away. Yeah. But if you can say, "Hey, if you're [00:35:00] interested in this, we have a program for you- 

Dori Durbin: Yeah ... 

Tom Durbin: to do it." "I wanna learn how to build." "Okay you're gonna get a rotation of that."

Tom Durbin: I wanna know more about electronics. I, I love tearing stuff apart. Not good about putting it back together, but I can tear stuff apart." Like, okay. 

Speaker 4: Demolition crew guys. 

Tom Durbin: We've got camps for those things. We've got- Yeah ... you know, we had drone and carpenter camp this summer, and we had to add, uh, another session of it because we had- People

Tom Durbin: so much interest. 

Tom Durbin: And then we look at where the jobs are going. 

Speaker 4: To 

Tom Durbin: the- And there's a, you talk about micro and I listen to him a lot, but there's, he talks about it all the time. There's a huge shortage for electricians, skilled trades. And right now there's generational change money out there 

Speaker 4: Yeah

Tom Durbin: in that. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: And you know, I know data centers are a big political thing. They're not going away. 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Tom Durbin: We have to win, you know, the AI war with China and places like that. So data centers are not going away, but how do we solve the energy problem? How do we solve the water problem? How do we... [00:36:00] I mean, I, I think students, there's tremendous opportunity in the next 10 years- 

Tom Durbin: For our students. It doesn't have to be skilled trades. You m- you might be on the college bound. 

Tom Durbin: And we have a program to help students figure that out too. But with our rising scholars and, and we just, where they wanna go, we wanna help them. Yeah. But there's so many- opportunities.

Tom Durbin: And we, there's jobs we don't even know about 

Dori Durbin: I was just gonna say, there's so many things that aren't here now that will be in another two years. 

Tom Durbin: There will, but what do we know? We know you have to be a good problem solver. Yes. You gotta be a critical thinker. You have to be able to relate to people.

Dori Durbin: Communicator. 

Tom Durbin: A communicator. 

Dori Durbin: Leader. 

Tom Durbin: And that's why I'm so excited too. We're seeing less and less students go full online. 

Dori Durbin: Mm. 

Tom Durbin: Especially at the junior high level. 

Dori Durbin: Like- They need that social ... 

Tom Durbin: we need people around us. Yeah. We need to learn from people, we need to interact with people, we need to, I keep saying problem solve, though w- but really, like how do e- how do we navigate?

Tom Durbin: How do you navigate working in a group with somebody that you really don't like? Or maybe they were mean to you [00:37:00] previously, or- Mm-hmm ... but you have to overcome it. That's real world things. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: And we always talk about resiliency. That's always a goal. And that's where it's built though. 

Speaker 4: Mm.

Tom Durbin: In a supervised area that's, you know, there's safety for kids, and we just help them navigate it. Kids are incredibly tough. Like, I hear stories all the time about what students that behind the scenes that we may never have e- really known. They might get to their senior year and you're like, "I di- I didn't know you were dealing with that."

Tom Durbin: All of a sudden it's cool. They never said anything. But then you're like, "Holy cow, you are incredible." Like, the- 

Dori Durbin: They had the skills ... 

Tom Durbin: yeah. Mm-hmm. And there's greatness in everybody. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And we want them to see it. We want them to help find it. Mm. And it's our, our job to help do those things and then launch them.

Dori Durbin: I love it. Love it. 

Tom Durbin: Par- And we wanna do it with parents. All about that partnership. You know, but, but sometimes we see it's a, I say parents, but I really mean the family. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: And whether that's, we have grandparents are raising, [00:38:00] raising, uh, grandchildren, um, aunts and uncles that are involved, foster care.

Tom Durbin: Like- Mm-hmm ... so we always should replace parents with family. 

'

Tom Durbin: Cause it doesn't always look the same for everybody by any means. Yeah. And that's okay. 

Dori Durbin: And you kinda want the school to be kind of a family, an outside family for them too, support-wise. 

Tom Durbin: Absolutely. Yeah. We're going through a, we'll be going through an exercise here this, uh, this fall of finding out which student or which adult is a connection for each student.

Tom Durbin: We want every student- Mm-hmm ... to be connected to a caring adult. 

Speaker 4: Love 

Tom Durbin: it. And I don't care if that's a teacher, bus driver that you talked about earlier, 'cause y- sometimes that's the first adult that students see. So we talk about, be that po- smile. 

Tom Durbin: How you doing? We'll get calls in the office from bus drivers saying, "Hey, little Tommy wasn't the same today.

Tom Durbin: Something's going on. Can you check on him?" 

Speaker 4: No. 

Tom Durbin: And I love that. Wonderful. Yeah, and that's, that's the caring hearts. But custodian, food service whoever they connect to we wanna know. And if they, if they aren't, [00:39:00] then we're gonna take some positive action steps towards that to make sure they do have somebody.

Dori Durbin: That's great. Awesome. Okay, Tom Durbin. We've talked a lot about a lot of things. Yeah. We could probably continue to talk for another 40 minutes or so. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: If you had, and I know this is gonna be really tough, 'cause this is a hard question, but if you could say that there was one step that a parent could take today to make their lives less stressful and really help their kids and themselves enjoy the school years- 

Dori Durbin: What would that one step be? 

Tom Durbin: Oh, save the hardest cla- question 

Dori Durbin: for 

Tom Durbin: last, right? I know. Why is 

Dori Durbin: it so mean? I know. 

Tom Durbin: Oh, no, um I would say a positive mindset And it might just, 'cause I just was at a conference and heard John Gordon speak and love his stuff. But some of the research that he talked about is that is the greatest influence on student achievement and success is the belief in students, but the belief in themselves, and [00:40:00] it all starts with that positive mindset.

Tom Durbin: I always feel bad when students are like, "This is the worst day ever," and I'm like, "Well, what happened?" And they were just little, little tiny things that kind of coincidentally happened or, you know, that didn't go the way that they expected, and like the day's ruined. It's like, no, that moment was tough.

Tom Durbin: That moment happened, but we still got six hours together. But like how are we gonna turn this around? What, what are some tools which we can give? And, and, somet- we, we encounter students and families that like have that victim mindset, and I'm like, "Oh, I'm, I don't know what happened.

Tom Durbin: I'm so sorry that happened," or, "So sorry that you had a school experience that you feel that nobody is for you, because that is not the case. Not in our school." Like- Mm ... and I don't think... I was just with 800 other superintendents and things like that, and nobody w- runs a school that way. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: Man, how can we, how can we- 

Speaker 4: How can-

Tom Durbin: be tough on kids and- ... make their lives miserable? [00:41:00] No. That's why we're, we're educators. But it goes back to that partnering thing. Yeah. We're all after kind of- 

Speaker 4: To 

Dori Durbin: help kids ... 

Tom Durbin: the same goal. So, so that positive mindset. 

Dori Durbin: Mm. 

Tom Durbin: Sometimes we have to, those are good tools for us too. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: I have to do that every, every morning.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Love it. Love it. Well, Tom, since we mentioned Hudson Schools, can you tell us where they, people can learn more about Hudson and about all the programs that Hudson offers? 

Tom Durbin: Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for some of those plugs. Thank you for... Yeah, absolutely.

Tom Durbin: First off is, is our website. It's hudson.k12.mi.us, or just hit Hudson Area Schools o- on your Google. And it'll take you to our website. You can always reach out and contact us at 517-448-8912, or me personally at 517-403 7687. 

Dori Durbin: You gave us your number? 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. It's not, it's not hidden. It's on my [00:42:00] email.

Tom Durbin: We had an emergency. 

Dori Durbin: That's good service right there. 

Tom Durbin: Oh, we had, oh. 

Dori Durbin: Get ready for your calls, Tom Durbin. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah, I put it out to the district because we had some transportation issues and- Mm-hmm ... our phone lines were down. 

Dori Durbin: Oh, gee. Yeah. 

Tom Durbin: And I'm like, "If you have to get a message to your student, just call me.

Tom Durbin: I'll make sure they get 

Speaker 4: it." That's awesome. 

Tom Durbin: Yeah. 

Speaker 4: That's very kind. But- 

Tom Durbin: But we're out there. If you're in the area, we love to do tours and visits, um, whether it's parents, whether it's- 

Speaker 4: My crew. 

Tom Durbin: That is- 

Speaker 4: John Gordon. 

Tom Durbin: Oh, my moonshot is to get Mike Rowe on campus ... within a year. And hopefully he's listening to this podcast- He is now

Tom Durbin: right, right now. But yeah, we'd lo- we'd love to have you come and see. 

Dori Durbin: That's awesome. 

Tom Durbin: We have other schools that come and some school boards that come visit and, yeah. Hudson's built something long before I got there, and I say I hit the lottery because I get to go to school every day and do what I love.

Dori Durbin: That's awesome. Proud of you, sir. 

Tom Durbin: Thank you. 

Dori Durbin: You're welcome. 

Tom Durbin: I'm here because of you. 

Dori Durbin: All right. Well, Tom, thank you [00:43:00] so much for being here today. Obviously, we had a good talk, but I think you've given and delivered an awful lot of very helpful and pertinent information to parents. I do think sometimes as parents we can feel like we're on one side of our child's education, the school is on the other side.

Dori Durbin: But really, as Tom mentioned, everyone wants the same thing, for our kids to feel supported, to learn, grow, and to have a successful year. And hopefully today's conversation helps your, you as listeners understand a little bit more about what's happening on the school side and gives you some simple things that you can do when these questions or struggles start to happen.

Dori Durbin: If you'd like to be part of what we're creating for families in a different way, I would love for you to join That's Good Parenting Club. It's a free club where inside parents can preview upcoming children's books, vote on ideas, share feedback, and even join launch teams to help bring some really great resources, books, children's books, into the hands of more families.

Dori Durbin: And that's it for pa- That's Good Parenting today. So as you go through the rest of your day, I hope you can look back [00:44:00] at one of the small moments at school and say, "Now that, that was good parenting." We'll see you soon.