Dori Durbin: [00:00:00] hello, and welcome to That's Good Parenting, the podcast where we search for simple steps to reduce your parenting stress. I'm your host, Dorrie Durbin, children's book illustrator, book coach, and of course, podcaster. I help parenting experts take their biggest ideas and concise them into children's books so that families can continue learning long after this conversation ends.

Dori Durbin: One thing that I've learned when there's a behavior problem. Sometimes it's not just the kid or the parent, it's actually, like, a communication issue that just needs some really good clarity. So every parent wants this perfect, peaceful home, but even the most loving families can find themselves having an argument every once in a while, and sometimes it's the same one over and over again.

Dori Durbin: Today's guest helps parents understand why those patterns happen and how we can change the way that we respond to them. Latif Ghanem is a conscious parenting and trauma-informed life coach and founder of Living [00:01:00] in Progress. She helps overwhelmed moms move from daily power struggles to calmer, more con- calmer, more connected relationships with their children.

Dori Durbin: Ladi, welcome to the show.

Latiffe Ghanem: Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Dori Durbin: Absolutely. I have already enjoyed talking to you, and I love where you came from as far as, like, how you got into conscious parenting. So would you mind sharing some of that with our listeners?

Latiffe Ghanem: Sure. So, um, I, I, like I told you before, I spent over 15 years in the field of communications, um, working, you know, in high-powered executive job, doing the thing that we're supposed to do. And I was about getting ready, we were getting ready to become parents, me and my husband, and we were going through treatments and all that good stuff, and I lost my job.

Latiffe Ghanem: And suddenly all of those plans of motherhood were put, came to a screeching [00:02:00] halt, and I was just very, very, very frustrated with life. I felt very stuck, and I was very confused because I thought, "I've done everything right. I've done everything I'm supposed to do." Like, I went to college, I got a job, I worked really, really hard.

Latiffe Ghanem: I put my head down. I saved money. I planned for the future. I got married. You know, all the steps, all the things that we're supposed to do as good girls, and suddenly life was throwing a huge curve ball on my way, and I didn't really know how to respond to that. And a friend of mine said, "I think you would be an amazing coach."

Latiffe Ghanem: And I was like, "What? But I'm not even a mom yet." And she's like, "It's fine. I promise you, I think you would be amazing at this. You are great. Take the course." And I did. I got certified with Dr. Shefali Tsabary- And it was, uh, an incredible experience. [00:03:00] It cracked me open, it helped me identify some of those patterns that we assign to ourselves, and how we learn to develop, in life, and how we play these roles and we think that we have control over the outcome.

Latiffe Ghanem: And instead of living life, we're trying to direct it as, as, um, you know, film directors of this great big production. Um, and now I really, really fell in love with it because, as it helped myself, I'm like, "I can't keep this all to myself. I wanna help others do the same thing." So today I'm focusing on helping moms really, really, really get to know themselves, break free from those patterns that keep them stuck, and build a better relationship with the tiny humans in their life, because we all know that that relationship is one of the most precious ones, and also one of the most impactful ones that we have both as parents but also as children.

Latiffe Ghanem: [00:04:00] So it- it's a win-win.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. You know, as you're speaking and I'm thinking about the pressures that are involved in parenting, like the- Mm ... perfectionism, the, you know, trying to make the best decision, being the adult in the situation, all these things that we put on ourselves as parents, and you're really asking the moms to really understand themselves first, and then that's what they're gifting to their kids.

Dori Durbin: Is that correct?

Latiffe Ghanem: That is exactly it. You nailed it. It's really understanding why, why you have to, this need to be perfect or to have everything perfect. Or why do you have the need to be a people pleaser and just not, can't say no, and then you end up saying yes to all your friends, all your children's friends and all your husband's friends or your work, and suddenly you're like, "Wait, I have to clone myself into 20 different persons to be able to make everybody happy," [00:05:00] and you always feel exhausted.

Latiffe Ghanem: Or why do you feel, you know, why do you yell? Or when you lose your temper, why do you feel the need to raise your voice? How did that pattern really show up? And how do you break free from it? So it's really how do you better understand yourself? Look inwards so that you can change that outwardly with your kids.

Dori Durbin: So how do I, as a parent, recognize my kid's doing the same thing, so I'm gonna respond- Mm-hmm ... the same way. How do I say, "Okay, that is a pattern I've been working, and it, and it's just not working."

Latiffe Ghanem: Yeah.

Dori Durbin: But I might not even realize I'm doing it,

Latiffe Ghanem: yeah. I think the key here first is realizing that if we keep doing the same thing and k- expecting a different result, it's like the, the very definition of insanity, right? We're doing the same thing, but we're expecting ... So it's like, oh, my kid never does their homework at 5:00 PM. As soon as they come home from school, they don't sit down and do their [00:06:00] homework, but I want them to do their homework.

Latiffe Ghanem: So I'm gonna tell them, "Sit down and do your homework." "No, I'm gonna do my homework later." "No, but sit down and do your homework." So it's like, w- why? Why are we engaging in that same conversat- ... You already know what the answer is going to be. Why do you expect a different result? So I think it's noticing those little moments where you're like, "Wait, a- am I just repeating myself again?

Latiffe Ghanem: Is this the same fight that we're having?" And it happens so much. It happens with our partners, you know, with our significant others. You realize that we always fight over the same things. It's because they also have a pattern, and we have a pattern, and those both are clashing. So it happens with our kids because we always expect, if I just say it this way, maybe it will change.

Latiffe Ghanem: If I just, you know, modify it, maybe I'll get a different result. So I think the key here is realizing that we are- Doing the same things over and over again, even if they take a different form, but we're expecting the [00:07:00] same a different result

Dori Durbin: Ooh, a different form. So that's interesting because I think that again, patterns you think, okay, I'm gonna yell, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, but it could be the same emotion just exhibited differently.

Dori Durbin: Correct. Is that what you- Correct. Okay. So can you give an example?

Latiffe Ghanem: So for the people pleaser, let's say, if you're saying I'm gonna throw a party for all of your friends," but then you know that you have a deadline for work, but then you know that your kid has soccer practice in the morning, but you over-commit to all these things, right?

Latiffe Ghanem: And you still throw the party, and then you're exhausted, and you're a little resentful at the end of the night because you're exhausted. But you did it all, right? And then you want everybody to be like, "Oh, congratulations. Thank you so much for doing this," but nobody's congratulating you because you're, you volunteered to do all of this.

Latiffe Ghanem: And then the next weekend you just say, "I'm gonna take all the kids to practice, and I'll take them then [00:08:00] for ice cream and pizza." It's a different form. You're doing a different thing. You're not throwing a party every weekend. But you are falling into the same pattern, and you're expecting somebody to say, "Oh my God, thank you so much.

Latiffe Ghanem: You're so wonderful. I love you," or, "Thank you for doing all of this," because that's how you wanna feel appreciated. You're seeking for that approval or that love so that's why you wanna over-please. And then you have no, no boundaries. You're not setting healthy boundaries for yourself. So it's not doing, you're not throwing a party every Saturday, but you are essentially exhibiting the same behavior every weekend.

Latiffe Ghanem: And I think that's what you need to sort of try to catch.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Because that's different than saying the same thing or, responding in the same way. You're still planning the same events with the same expectations for the outcome.

Latiffe Ghanem: Exactly.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. That's [00:09:00] hard. That's really

Latiffe Ghanem: hard. It is. It is hard.

Latiffe Ghanem: It is. But once you realize that you're feeling empty, or you're not feeling fulfilled, or you're feeling like you're failing, or you're not feeling... You, you sort of feel it, right? You start feeling exhausted, and most moms already feel exhausted because they're already, you know, it's the emotional charge.

Latiffe Ghanem: It's the second shift. The other day I was talking to a mom and she's like, "So I started waking up at 5:00 in the morning just so I could get one hour for myself." So that in itself tells you that most moms are already in overdrive. So once you start feeling it "Okay, my patience is getting shorter. I am not performing at my best," and then they spiral into feelings of guilt or shame or feelings that they're failing their children, I think that's the minute they need to realize that there's help out there, that there's a ways to cope, and it's not always, nobody's telling you how to parent, but you [00:10:00] have to help yourself. It's like putting the oxygen mask first so that you can then put the oxygen mask on somebody else.

Dori Durbin: Some, is some of the difficulty of getting help, like, the idea that we need to get ourselves out of it? You know- Mm ... kind of like, uh, like an- Yeah

Dori Durbin: over independence and over expectation for ourselves to figure this out, like buck up, little-

Latiffe Ghanem: Yeah ...

Dori Durbin: kind of thing?

Latiffe Ghanem: Yeah. Yeah. I think, and because we feel like, "Oh, I'm the mom," right? "This is it. I signed up for this. I have to figure it out somehow. Like, I can't ... Who am I gonna cry to? Like, this is it. Th- this is what

Latiffe Ghanem: It's a phase. It, it's gonna get better." Um, we, we sort of soothe ourselves or be- into beliefs that, you know, everybody's going through the same. We all go through it. That's just how it is. Everybody's tired. Everybody's exhausted. Or, you know, the other day I heard a mom say, "You [00:11:00] know, if I need alcohol to be able to be a mother, then I'm an alcoholic."

Latiffe Ghanem: And I'm like maybe you need something else, you know. Maybe it's not just about self-soothing or self-medicating so that you can just get through the week. Uh, maybe it's about looking inwards." And again, there's no judgment. I'm not here to judge anyone, but I'm here to tell you that there are different ways, and you don't have to, like, buckle up and just take it.

Latiffe Ghanem: Because at the end of the day, you are suffering, and it's not to say that I understand motherhood is always gonna be a thankless job in a way. Uh, it is. It's not going, you're not always gonna get all the praises that you deserve or all the recognition that you deserve. But at the end of the day, you don't always have to feel like you got the shorter end of the stick and that you're always failing.

Latiffe Ghanem: You can be empowered in within your own journey in your [00:12:00] motherhood.

Dori Durbin: So this probably is a silly question, but I'm gonna ask anyway.

Latiffe Ghanem: Go for it.

Dori Durbin: Mm, so if you're a mom who is really struggling, feeling like she's failing, doesn't feel like she can reach out to people-

...

Dori Durbin: What is the- The benefit, I guess is the word that I want.

Dori Durbin: What is the benefit to the risk of putting yourself out there and asking for the help? What does it look like on the other side? Because maybe she's forgotten.

Latiffe Ghanem: Yeah. I think- wow, that's such a good question. I think the benefit is the fact that you feel, "Okay, I get it now. I get it." And it's not 100% perfection.

Latiffe Ghanem: You're not always going to not lose your cool, and you're not always not going to wanna bake the half dozen brownies for the bake sale because you wanna be- you want your daughter or you to shine. Yes, those things are gonna come up, and those patterns are gonna... But you're gonna be better equipped, [00:13:00] one, to recognize them, and two, to regulate them.

Latiffe Ghanem: And sometimes it becomes more of a choice. I know that, I, uh, I wear makeup because my ego feels good about wearing makeup, so I wear it. But it's a choice. I don't feel like, "Oh, I am oppressed by the society and I have to wear makeup." Y- it's like that difference of choice. You do it because you want to, and then you, you feel more empowered in saying, "Okay, I am choosing to do this, even though I know it just might be, like, my ego playing tricks on me or, or wanting recognition."

Latiffe Ghanem: And then if you don't get it, you're more empowered to be like, "Okay, fine. I didn't get it, but I'm gonna congratulate myself." Yeah.

Dori Durbin: Yeah, so you can shift that expectation-

Latiffe Ghanem: You can shift the expectation, and you can h- be more empowered. I think that is the key. You have more self-awareness about your emotions, what triggers you, why you're being [00:14:00] triggered- Yeah

Latiffe Ghanem: and then how do you self-soothe and s- and regulate.

Dori Durbin: That makes sense. You know, as I'm thinking about this too it's going to be a mirror to your kids, because the kids automatically mirror us, whether we want them to or not. Exactly. In some form, they're gonna mirror us. So that is sort of a benefit if you can take yourself outside of what you're feeling and look outside and say, "Okay, what is my kid learning when I'm reacting in this way?"

Dori Durbin: Exactly.

Latiffe Ghanem: Mm-hmm. Exactly. But then sometimes we wonder, like, "Oh, why is my kid yelling or throwing doors or doing this or doing that?" Because that's the behavior they learned. It's what you said. Kids are gonna model us whether we want it or not. They're gonna model their good, but they're also gonna model the bad.

Latiffe Ghanem: So if we're able to work on ourselves and learn how to regulate ourselves, we're then able to be more present and to help teach our kids how to self-regulate. So you're not [00:15:00] only empowering yourself, but you're also empowering your children. Definitely ...

Dori Durbin: is there something that you find yourself telling parents frequently about how they're parenting or what their kids are seeing?

Latiffe Ghanem: Yeah. That give themselves grace. There's so much judgment and self-criticism. They, everybody thinks they are failing or they're not doing it right, or their, their kids are just a menace demons from hell sent to torture them and they don't know how to handle it. You know, it's like, "They just know how to push my buttons.

Latiffe Ghanem: I don't know why they keep doing this. I don't know how to handle it." And they feel like somehow they are just coming up short. They don't have the tools, and that's what I tell them. You can read books, you can listen to 1,000 podcasts, you can have all the scripts at the ready, but when your nervous system is triggered, when you feel like you're in fight or flight, you are going to react [00:16:00] in protection mode because that's how our body was trained to react.

Latiffe Ghanem: It's going to train to protect you. You are going to go into protection mode and do the pattern that you know best how to protect yourself. If you're able to learn how to regulate yourself, you're able to break free from it, and it's not 100%. It's never going to be 100%. Everybody gets triggered. Everybody...

Latiffe Ghanem: But then you learn to understand it and deconstruct it and be like, "Oh, okay, I understand why I reacted this way, and I can sit with that discomfort. I can understand why it happens." So what I tell parents all the time is, one, you're not alone. This is not happening only to you. There's a community of mothers out there, which I talk to all the time, that feel exactly the same way.

Latiffe Ghanem: And two, please give yourself grace. You are, you're... We are our harshest critics. Always. Always. And I always tell them "Would you tell... If your [00:17:00] friend called you and told you right now what you're telling me, what would you tell them?" And they'd always have the most beautiful words, "But yet you don't have that same love and compassion for you, right?"

Latiffe Ghanem: So we are, it's just that. Give themselves grace, grace. Everybody's just figuring it out. Nobody has it 100%.

Dori Durbin: So does giving yourself grace give you the opportunity to see your kids' real needs a little bit easier? For instance, let's say they are throwing a fit or they're doing the same thing again and they're, unknowing to you, probably responding to you somewhat too.

Dori Durbin: But because we're so wrapped up in trying to get what we want, we don't see what they need. Does that happen frequently?

Latiffe Ghanem: Definitely. Because we think, sometimes we think two-year-olds know better. Yeah. And we believe two-year-olds have the mental capacity of an 18-year-old, and we... or h- I hear it frequently, "He's two [00:18:00] going on 13."

Latiffe Ghanem: No, he's two going on two, and he's showing attitudes of two, but you think he should know better or you think he's already had it figured out, because he's probably very smart in other things, or he does wonderful in some other things. But he doesn't have the emotional intelligence to understand X, Y, or Z, and we believe they do, so we're like, "Oh, they're just being manipulative.

Latiffe Ghanem: Oh, they're just trying to... They know better, and they're just trying to get a rise out of me. They're challenging me. They're..." If you give your kid the same grace you're supposed to, you're giving yourself, then you understand that maybe they aren't out to get you, but they're just trying to navigate something that is difficult for them, like the transition that may be hard.

Latiffe Ghanem: When you're sitting and binge-watching Netflix and sun- suddenly somebody comes and, well, nobody, because we're adults, right? Nobody comes and just [00:19:00] turns it off and says, "Okay, we're done." You're like, "Wait." But I was watching that. I wanna continue watching it. Sort of the same thing happens when they're in the park.

Latiffe Ghanem: They're having a great time, then somebody says, "Okay, we're done. Time to go." And then we're like and they're having a hard time with that transition because they're like uh, but I was having so much fun with my friends," or, "I was having so much fun in the slide. Why do we suddenly have to go?" They don't understand that there's responsibilities, that you have to get home, they have to shower, they have to be bathed, they have to have dinner.

Latiffe Ghanem: For them, kids live in the here and now. They live in the present. If I'm having fun right now, why do you have to shut it off? We're the ones planning always for the future. We're living in the everything that needs to get done. Granted, it does need to get done, right? Food needs to be served and prepared and dinner.

Latiffe Ghanem: But they don't understand that. So how do we navigate that transition? If we give them the grace of understanding that if it were [00:20:00] to be done to you, how would you feel? If you were having so much fun, and suddenly somebody came and said, "Okay, fun's over. Let's go. Done." How would that feel?

Latiffe Ghanem: It feels kind of, abrupt, right?

Dori Durbin: Yeah. That's such a good perspective to be able to compare the two experiences, because we don't think about that. We don't think about the fact that they're engaged in something. And when kids do things, they put everything into it. It's all in- Yeah

Dori Durbin: right? So, you come over and you say, "You're done," and I think I would, as an adult, I might cry if I'm having that

Latiffe Ghanem: good of a time. Exactly. Exactly. You're like, "But wait, I, this was the best part of the show." And somebody else is like, "No, we're shutting it off. It's done. You have to finish. Let's go." And then we start getting upset, right?

Latiffe Ghanem: "Let's go. Let's go. In the car. I'm gonna count to three. I'm gonna leave you." And then what does that teach the kid? "Wait, you're leaving me? You're abandoning me?" And then [00:21:00] suddenly the fear comes in for the kid. It's like, "Wait, my mom wants to abandon me in the park." So it's all of those things coupled into one.

Latiffe Ghanem: If we understand the emotion and where they're coming from and where we're coming from, I think it's better to meet halfway, if that makes sense. Yeah

Dori Durbin: - Well, just in the fact too, I think about, the battles that people have. Just even I was thinking the other day about breakfast. Yeah. Like trying to get your kids to eat, trying to get your kids dressed, out the door on time.

Dori Durbin: The stress of just being on time, and what it plays,, in your mind as far as- All the complexity of if I get there late, this is gonna happen. If this happens, and then so and so, and this and that. Like, all of these components that we seem to lump into getting out the door on time. Yeah.

Dori Durbin: And that's the thing. I think that's what I remember from motherhood the most, was the stress of not being able to control things. And in reality, [00:22:00] you can't. You can't control everything.

Latiffe Ghanem: Exactly, but you think you can. So you're always overcompensating, trying to control every little thing,

Latiffe Ghanem: And we always tend to catastrophize. So we go into the future. We're gonna be late, and then you're gonna get written up, and then this is going to happen, and then this is going to happen, and then you're gonna get suspended. And you know what? You're never gonna go to a good college. Yes. And suddenly you end up

Latiffe Ghanem: exactly. You're gonna be a thief. And it's like, what? Um, because we tend to go into the future, right? All parents that I talk to, they want three things. They want their children to be good, they want their children to be happy, and they want to be, their children to be successful.

Latiffe Ghanem: But what does that really mean? When you th- when you break those three things down, what do you attach to the word good? What do you attach to the word happy? What do you attach to the word successful? And how do you measure that? And against whom are you measuring it? Because [00:23:00] that's the thing. A kid can be perfectly happy being an artist, um, doing street art and, that's what they wanna do, and that's their calling in life.

Latiffe Ghanem: But are you going to be happy with that career choice if that's what they want, right? So do you really want your kid to be happy, or do you want them to live your definition of happiness? Do you really want your kid to be successful, or do you want them to live your definition of success? And then what does that really mean?

Latiffe Ghanem: So because we, we're all scared all the time of what could happen or if we don't do X, Y, Z, it's gonna end up being bad, then we're all rushing through life instead of just being, present in the moment right here, right now, because we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow or whether they're going to choose to be Ivy League doctors or street artists.

Latiffe Ghanem: And no matter if they get to school [00:24:00] two minutes late or one m- or, you know, or every day on time, they may be the perf- they may have perfect attendance and decide they wanna be, I don't know, um, music producers, and are you going to be okay with that? Or do you have a, an, an issue with that? And I think that's when you need to start deconstructing as you are also raising your children because you need to understand that you can't project your ideas of success, happiness, and good onto them

Dori Durbin: Do you find a lot of parents who do this, who do the projecting, were projected on from their parents, like it's a generational kind of thing?

Latiffe Ghanem: I think it definitely is. It definitely is. Most parents always tell you in my, in our family, we blah, blah, blah," or, "The expectation is this." So that is inherited, right? Or it also can be that you're the first generation to go to college, and suddenly all the dreams are deposited on you because your parents sacrificed so [00:25:00] much for you to do X, Y, Z, and that's also hard.

Latiffe Ghanem: It's hard for immigrants' families. It's hard for first generations that go to college. How do they navigate that, having suddenly all the expectations put onto them? And well, what if I hate going to school, or I'm a terrible test taker? How does that conflict with the reality, right? It definitely does have a component.

Latiffe Ghanem: Generational patterns are a big part Like, have you ever found yourself mid-sentence and being like, "Wait, did I just say what my mom said?" It happens to me right? And you're like, "I'm turning into my mom."

Dori Durbin: Yeah. I think we all have had that, or your dad or your aunt-

Latiffe Ghanem: Or your dad ... or your grandma. Exactly Wait, my dad used to do this all the time. Wait, what?" Uh, yeah. And we swore when we were teenagers, "I never wanna be like you." Suddenly, we're doing exactly the same thing, and that has a reason, [00:26:00] right?

Latiffe Ghanem: Because that's how we were trained how to rear, how to love, how to educate. We're not doing anything out of malice. We're just, we want the best for children, So we're like, "Well, I didn't turn out so bad. So if my parents did it, we're gonna do it again. We're gonna try to replicate."

Dori Durbin: And you just go back to the thing you know.

Dori Durbin: It's so simple to go

Latiffe Ghanem: back- Exactly ... to the thing

Dori Durbin: you know. Exactly. Yeah. Well, what if I'm a parent who's listening and I'm like, "Okay, I'm a repeat pattern offender." I have lost my cool lots of times. How do I bring this relationship back? Is it even possible for me to teach myself new things and to teach my kids at this point, who have already watched me do this 1,000 times, something new?

Latiffe Ghanem: Oh, definitely. Yes. It's al- it's never too late. Definitely. I think the change can happen at any point in time. I think you, [00:27:00] you just have to want to do the inner work and sort of become aware that you wanna change, and the answer is usually within you. \ There's no holy grail that you have to search for, or there's m- there's no quest that you have to go on.

Latiffe Ghanem: It's more of, okay, this is how I learned how to react, and this is the need that is not being fulfilled in me, and this is why I'm getting triggered. That's,, the best pattern that I go through with my moms, right? It's like, what did you learn and why do you feel so hurt when XYZ happens?

Latiffe Ghanem: What part in you feels so hurt that suddenly, your nervous system goes into I have to protect you against everything and anything that is going to hurt you? And that's how you go into overdrive. So that you start learning. And it's not only about breathing, it's not only about regulation, it's really about [00:28:00] understanding how are you getting triggered and why are you getting triggered?

Latiffe Ghanem: So it's that integration part that is the most important. And they definitely can change it at any point in time. I've had parents of adult children, that they've had terrible relationships with their adult children right now, but they wanna change it and they wanna change the dynamic. So how do you do that?

Latiffe Ghanem: You change how you show up every day, and eventually it starts pouring over.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. That's such good news. It's such a, a reassuring thing that- Yeah ...

Latiffe Ghanem: you know,

Dori Durbin: not that we want you to keep making the same mistakes over again, but that those, they're not permanent.

Latiffe Ghanem: Exactly. Exactly. No, I think there's always time.

Latiffe Ghanem: As long as we're alive, there's time to do things. Yeah.

Dori Durbin: I think most of the arguments that we feel have, ingrained in our kids, you know, the ones that we're like, "Ugh, I wish I never said that. I wish I wouldn't have changed-" ... they don't really [00:29:00] remember it, or much less remember it in the same way that we do.

Dori Durbin: Of

Latiffe Ghanem: course ...

Dori Durbin: so I'm curious, though,, if there's something that you, Ladi, wish that every parent who came through your door could look back and say, "Okay, my kid knows this about us, about our relationship," what would that be?

Latiffe Ghanem: Oh, definitely that they don't have to prove themselves, that they can just be.

Latiffe Ghanem: That they are loved no matter what. I think that's the one thing I would want every parent that is listening to be able to instill in their kids., They don't have to earn anybody's love or anybody's acceptance, and if we're able to teach our children that just for being, they have a right to be, they have a right for love, they have a right to respect.

Latiffe Ghanem: And that they will have our love unconditionally, which is a very hard word to really express, because unconditional love is very, very, very hard to give. And much r- and much [00:30:00] harder when the person that you're giving it to is sometimes your harshest critic, your little dictator. You know, they are mean and they're like, "I don't wanna eat this.

Latiffe Ghanem: I don't want that. You're the worst mom in the world." And still emanate that love to someone, it's very hard. But if you're able to transmit that, that no matter how you are and how you show up in life and in the world, you are loved and you are cared for and you are worthy, I would love that.

Dori Durbin: I love that.

Dori Durbin: That's awesome.

Latiffe Ghanem: Yeah.

Dori Durbin: Do you think some of that is the presence piece? If the parent can feel where they are and be more present for them that, that-

Latiffe Ghanem: Yeah ...

Dori Durbin: opens that door?

Latiffe Ghanem: Definitely. I think if you're able to just not live in the future so much and just be in the here and now. What's happening right now?

Latiffe Ghanem: Right now. Let's not jump into five years from now, he's gonna become a criminal and, he's gonna end up in jail. Let's, [00:31:00] let's focus on right now. What do we need to happen right now, and how do we, how do we fix the now, and not what could eventually happen in the future? Yes, the presence definitely has a big part in that.

Dori Durbin: Awesome. I know there's a parent listening right now who is like, "I have to talk to Ladi. I have to talk to her as soon as possible." So can you tell us a little bit about your programs you offer and where they can find you the quickest?

Latiffe Ghanem: Sure. So they can find me on my website, www.livinginprogress.com.

Latiffe Ghanem: And I offer an eight-week program, it's called Breaking the Power Struggle. It's weekly one-on-one coaching where we deconstruct what is the pattern that is running the show, which you developed long before you became a parent. And we, we, together we work on a strategy to sort of break through from that pattern and help you lead with confidence.

Latiffe Ghanem: And there's, between the coaching sessions, there's you know, [00:32:00] support, because we all know meltdowns don't happen during the perfect session that we're having, but at 7:00 PM on a Tuesday during dinner. So you can text me and be like, "I am about to lose it," and we can work on it right there and right now.

Latiffe Ghanem: So yeah, I would love to help moms, and they can also find me on Instagram, um, livingin_progress.

Dori Durbin: I love the fact that you're available during dinner. That's amazing.

Latiffe Ghanem: Yes. I mean, it happens, right? If they wanna text me and they're like, "I am having a really hard time right now," we can quickly, deconstruct what's happening, why are you feeling triggered.

Latiffe Ghanem: So I think that's important also because it helps you become more aware. It's sort of like building a muscle, at the gym. You need to practice practice until you can do it on your own and you're like, "Hmm, okay. Why am I feeling how I'm feeling?"

Dori Durbin: That's awesome. Ah, so cool. I wish you were around when my kids were little.

Dori Durbin: [00:33:00] So, Ladi I do. I seriously do. That'd be amazing. Mm.

Latiffe Ghanem: Thank you.

Dori Durbin: So every episode we have is gonna end with a simple step that parents can take as soon as they get done listening, or even this week sometime. So if there's a mom- listening today who, she feels exhausted from arguing with her child, she knows she's hitting patterns,, what's one small thing she can do this week that would help to change the atmosphere for her and the child at home?

Latiffe Ghanem: So I would advise them to not approach the same issue like she wants to win. , It's not a matter of winning. Because we think that we're the parent, we're the adult, we need to win the argument. And when you make it as us versus them, or you versus me, or I versus you, you immediately make it adversarial instead of guiding.

Latiffe Ghanem: And you are the leader and the guide. And you have to guide them into changing the behavior. But if your purpose is not to win, but rather to [00:34:00] teach and to help them navigate, it immediately changes the perspective for you. So if they're finding themselves going into it again, "Wait. Do I feel the need to win?

Latiffe Ghanem: And then how do I change that?"

Dori Durbin: So good. So good.

Dori Durbin: Well, Ladi, thank you so much for your time, for your insights. I know you're speaking to so many people who are listening right now, and I hope that they break through that embarrassment, break through the, the traps of the patterns that they've been using- reach out and contact you for more information.

Latiffe Ghanem: Oh, awesome. Yes, I hope so, too. Remember, there's no bad parenting. It's not... We're not here to judge. There's no guilt, there's no shame. We're here to support each other and help each other navigate all of this. All the things. So happy to be able to talk to you, and so happy to be here today, and I'm very excited to be able to help all your listeners. If they reach out.

Dori Durbin: Awesome. Thank [00:35:00] you.

Dori Durbin: , Listeners, Like Ladi said , parenting really, again, it's not about winning the battle, it's about going to another day. And, if today's conversation was something that you thought, "Man, this makes me think of somebody," share it. Share it with them so that they can get help and have that opportunity as well.

Dori Durbin: And if you really love this conversation and you want to continue the idea of reaching out and really helping kids, I would love to invite you to That's Good Parenting Club. It's my free community for parents, grandparents, e- experts, educators, anybody who loves kids books, who wants to help the next generation of kids books get shaped.

Dori Durbin: So experts just like Ladi or others create these children's books, and you get the sneak peeks, you get to see all the new things. You get to give your opinions on what's gonna appear on your kids' bookshelf later. We really want the very best for your kids. And know that you're making those steps to be able to say

Dori Durbin: now that moment, that was good parenting." Talk to you [00:36:00] soon