Dori Durbin: Welcome to That's Good Parenting, the podcast where we search for simple steps to reduce your parenting stress. I'm Dori Durbin, children's book illustrator, author, coach, and podcaster. I help experts turn big ideas into children's books that families can reuse and enjoy every day. Today, we are talking about one of the biggest transitions families experience, bringing home a new baby and navigating the postpartum season and beyond.

Dori Durbin: Our guest today is Jennifer Tawil, a certified postpartum doula and founder of Lean on Me Westchester Doula. Jennifer supports families through those early newborn weeks with practical help, emotional support, and trusted guidance that helps parents feel calmer and more confident during a time that can feel overwhelming, to say the least.

Dori Durbin: Jennifer, welcome to the show. 

Jennifer Tawil: Thank you so much. I love that introduction. Oh, 

Dori Durbin: thank you. You know, it's so funny because when we started, I was so curious [00:01:00] about how you ended up where you are now. You were a, a private investigator, and now you're delivering babies and helping parents.

Dori Durbin: Talk to me a little bit about that. What was that process or what was the journey behind that? 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. Well, yeah, I was an investigator for 25 years. I worked in private industry as well as government entities as well in New York. And there was a little bit of another short career where I worked for a New York State assemblywoman.

Jennifer Tawil: And her, she was retiring, and I had to make a decision, like, what am I gonna do next? And I really sat myself down and thought about, what do I want my life to look like? And what informed me was I did not want to sit at a desk anymore, and I wanted to continue helping people. That's what I was doing in the assemblywoman's office.

Jennifer Tawil: And I had what I typically call a non-drug induced flashback. [00:02:00] Because all of a sudden I s- I had this memory of when I was postpartum and I had to come, I had a postpartum doula come and help me. Or what I say, literally rescued me, because I was six weeks in and I was not doing well. I was sitting in my apartment in New York City by myself, isolated, did not have family around.

Jennifer Tawil: My friends were not in the same stage I was, and I was struggling with breastfeeding. And so I remembered how I felt how she made me feel, and that was just, like, the light bulb moment and I was just like, that is what I wanna do, and that is what I have been doing for the last four years, and I absolutely love it.

Dori Durbin: That's such a transition, but to go off of something that was so organically natural for you to step into, not back into, it's brand new, that's really phenomenal that you can provide that service for parents. What are some of the things that you see most common for parents who are entering, like [00:03:00] moms have been pregnant for a long time, and now all of a sudden the baby's gonna come. Where are they missing like the next step a lot of times? 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. So You know, ordinarily I can c- you know, count myself for my first pregnancy too, you know, you're just so focused on the birth and how is it gonna go down, and you have a birth plan, and you have your people, and your team lined up, and everything, you know, birth, birth.

Jennifer Tawil: And then, you know, you're not remembering or thinking about, like, what is it gonna be like when I have to go home with this teeny-tiny baby? And you know, people think about, like, the sleepless nights and things like that, but I don't think they realize, like, how are they gonna get through the day who is gonna be there to support them

Jennifer Tawil: how are they gonna be providing themselves all what I like to say the adulting that you were doing before. Because when I like to step in as a doula, like I say, "I take the adulting off your shoulders." Because one of the things I do for my c- clients, besides [00:04:00] obviously helping them with baby care education and just, you know, sometimes some breastfeeding support, but I also provide nutritious meals for them, sometimes breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and I do their laundry.

Jennifer Tawil: I'm really there to just give them the time to, focus and bond with their baby. But a lot of people are not thinking about all these things that go on once you're back home. And so, I tell them, like, "All those things you were doing in your life, they're still gonna be there, so how are you gonna take care of it?

Jennifer Tawil: How are you gonna take care of yourself, and your partner, besides this little baby who's 100% dependent on you?" So it's a lot. 

Dori Durbin: I can't believe you make dinners and meals for them. Do you do laundry too- Yeah ... and things like that? 

Jennifer Tawil: Yes. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Jennifer Tawil: Yep. 

Dori Durbin: Wow. 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Where were you when my kids were born?

Jennifer Tawil: It's really... it's not an industry, I would say, or a service that really got going before COVID. Mm-hmm. Because as you can imagine, before COVID life was [00:05:00] just the way we thought it was, right? But then with COVID and all the things it brought to it, I think the need to support people's mental health has really, really been focused on.

Jennifer Tawil: And, I don't think enough information is out there for women, at least it wasn't for me, about how anxious and depressed you can get, and it has nothing to do with what you were like before. It is the biggest hormone drop of your life, and so you don't realize how it affects you physically, hormonally, mentally, like all the things.

Jennifer Tawil: So, yeah, it hits you. You don't know, you don't know... there's no way to really, like, know what to expect, even though everyone has that book, What to Expect When You're Expecting. Yeah 

Dori Durbin: I was gonna ask you what the biggest emotional stressors or struggles are that you see for moms- especially those first few weeks. Is it the guilt of not being able to do what you were doing before? Like, like what is it? What do they tell you they struggle with? 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. Well, the only guilt that could [00:06:00] come in is if this is their second or third child, and they feel like, "Oh, I'm not really giving my first, earlier children born, that were born before, like, their attention they were getting before."

Jennifer Tawil: That can be a guilty thing. But that's also what postpartum doulas provide is if you need time alone with your newborn, like, I'm gonna go sit and color with your two-year-old you know? Which I love. But no, I think that it's a lot of, you know, it's, it's the a- it's the isolation because you're really not...

Jennifer Tawil: It doesn't matter what time of year it is, you're really not going out very much with your newborn. You know, you're pretty much, except for taking them to the pediatrician every two weeks or so, like, you're really pretty much at home a lot, and so that gets very isolating and can be depressing, obviously, even if your partner's home with you.

Jennifer Tawil: I actually tell all my clients, I just had this conversation before we signed on when I was with my client this morning. I asked her, I said, "Have you been outside?" Today's Thursday, right? So I was there Tuesday. I said, "Have you been outside since I was here Tuesday?" She said, "No." I said, "I [00:07:00] need you to just, like, go sit on your porch for five or 10 minutes and let the sun get on your face and get some fresh air.

Jennifer Tawil: And nutrition. A lot of times newborn parents are, um, they're, like, grabbing and going, 'cause they're just so involved with, as they should be, with the baby all day. And it's really important for your r- the restoration of your body physically and mentally to have nutritious food.

Jennifer Tawil: And I'm not talking about salad every day. I'm just talking about, you know, not, you know, just not eating a lot of, like, you know, it could be, you could be eating a whole loaf of bread, but that's not good either. So, yeah, so the nutrition and getting rest. You really, the rest is really important because when the nights are hard, the days need to be not as hard.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. You, if you're coming into it already exhausted, that day is so long. Even though that it's so precious and you're not wanting to miss anything, you're not [00:08:00] staying awake, you're not feeling healthy, um, your energy levels cash out if you're not eating. Like, there's so many pieces to that. I'm curious, like, do you find that women have a hard time asking for the help that they really need?

Jennifer Tawil: Oh, yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Jennifer Tawil: It is such a huge topic. Even f- I'm so glad you said this, 'cause this is relevant to my client this afternoon. I had made her breakfast and lunch, right? And dinner. We Did all the meals, and I had like a half an hour, like, at the end of the shift, and I was like, "Oh," like, "what else can I do for you?"

Jennifer Tawil: And she's like, "Well, I would really love if you could make this for me, but I don't know. I... You did so much already." And I was like, "Wait a second. You are three weeks postpartum," like, "I am here to help you. Like, you tell me, like, what do you need?" She was. She had such a hard time, 'cause she felt like, "Oh, I already did so much."

Jennifer Tawil: I'm like, "But this is the whole point is for you [00:09:00] to rest and let somebody..." We deserve it. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Jennifer Tawil: All... I'm gonna say all parents i- of newborns, we deserve it. Take the help. Um, and, um, it's so important because she... The other thing she said to me, which was also felt good, but very relevant, was this is her third baby.

Jennifer Tawil: Mm. She did not have doula support with the other two, and she said to me, she's like, "This is the best I've felt mentally postpartum out of all three." And, I'm not tooting my own horn, because there's thousands of doulas that do what I do. I'm just saying the support in general it does make a difference.

Jennifer Tawil: It really does,

Dori Durbin: w- what do you feel like, And maybe, maybe they don't verbalize this, but I'm curious what your sense is of why it's so hard to take the help. 

Jennifer Tawil: I mean, I wanted to let you finish. I would say a couple of reasons. First of all I think that there's the expectation of, women, w- we are the birthing people, and women are expected to just, like, [00:10:00] A, just know what to do with everything, because it's just supposed to be part of our nature and our, development and physicality.

Jennifer Tawil: But I don't know about you, but I knew nothing about how to take care of a newborn when I had my son, you know? I was, I was petrified. I was scared to death. When we came home and we were like, "Now what?" Like, "What do we..." You know? Like, "What do we do with this teeny thing?" But there's the expectation that, you're the mother, you're supposed to know what to do.

Jennifer Tawil: It's your responsibility. It's all on you, um, don't ask, you know, you shouldn't ask for help because there's just this overall, you know, like, expectation of, you know, you wanna call it centuries old. And I think also, uh, there's a hindrance for mostly women, but, you know, all parents to feel like, "Oh," like, "We're s- you know, we're adults now."

Jennifer Tawil: Like, "We're the parents," yeah. "We were once kids, but now we're the parents, and so we're supposed to not need our own parents," so, like, the grandparents. [00:11:00] You know, "We're supposed to... the torch has been handed to us." But that's not true either. Because if you go back hundreds of years, like, people were surrounded by literally their village, so their family, their neighbors. People were coming over and, you know, helping the, the mom, and, and, um, bringing meals. You know, like, this was what it was. And so this is why I think doula support is so important because if you don't have people around you, then you need to bring someone in like me to give you that, what you need.

Jennifer Tawil: But I say you deserve it. It's more than that you need it, you deserve it. 

Dori Durbin: I think that testimony from your client about feeling so much better is pretty powerful. 

Jennifer Tawil: Mm. 

Dori Durbin: And I... Just even thinking through it if you could have an ideal situation for a client, like, how would they feel with having the doula there?

Dori Durbin: Like, if they were truly, like, buying into the whole thing and really asking for what they [00:12:00] need, what would they be experiencing? 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. You know, just again to use my client as an example, like, you know, she didn't have to get out of bed till after 12:30 in the afternoon. I brought her breakfast to her in bed.

Jennifer Tawil: I brought the baby to her to breastfeed. Like, she just was, la- luxuriating. And g- you know, and, and really resting 'cause she needs it. You know, her body... birth is a trauma. It's a trauma to the body. And so, it's a beautiful trauma, but it is. Like, you, you just, you need that physical and mental rest.

Jennifer Tawil: So to me it is ideal is when a a parent can really accept the support and not get up... And I have some clients, you know, they get up and they, like, they have to start organizing. Or, sometimes, uh, when I've... I, when I do their laundry, you know, I fold it and I don't go in their drawers.

Jennifer Tawil: I, you know, make piles and I leave it for them to put away later. But some of them, like, they wanna put it away right away, so I try to get [00:13:00] them to realize, like, "This can wait. You can put it away tomorrow." Um, so, uh, I try to get them to really remind themselves, like, nothing has to h- nothing has to happen today except taking care of your baby and they being taken care of.

Jennifer Tawil: That's it. That's it. And I also remind them that even though we live in this, like, advanced technological age, right? Every year there's all these things happening, it's exciting, whatever, AI. But having a baby is really primal You really need very simple things in order for you to, like, have a good postpartum and for your baby to get what they need.

Jennifer Tawil: It's so simple. It- you go back to the basics. Pretend you're a caveman. You know? Like, um, but, you know, with technology today, there's a lot of, products. Like, I actually have a a registry list that I, if my client wants it, I will give it to them, and it's [00:14:00] very simple. You know, it's not these gadgets with the cameras and the this and the that.

Jennifer Tawil: You know, it's not necessary. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Yep. So it's taking them back to the basics even with that. Yeah. 

Jennifer Tawil: Yep. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. I was curious about, how this, this person would look because you actually would follow them from birth all the way until what point do you usually kinda drop off helping the moms?

Dori Durbin: When is that? 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. I mean, it's different for everyone. You know, there's a financial component, obviously. Typically, though, it is, like, between, I would say eight to 10 weeks.

Jennifer Tawil: Sometimes tr- you know, they want... technically, if they're, if they're on maternity leave for three months, they will hire me for the whole period. Um, but sometimes we do a step-down method, which is like the first month might be five days a week, and then we go down to three days, and then we go down to two days.

Jennifer Tawil: They're kinda weaning themselves off me. Yeah. Um, but they're also... it's important, I think, because they also need to feel confident that they could do it on their own. They don't need [00:15:00] m- you know, they don't need me to be a successful parent. So it can look like that a lot of times. Um, but, uh, yeah, typically, you know, it's like eight, 10 weeks, sometimes 12, yeah.

Dori Durbin: And it's probably for the people that do take you up on, you know, coming in and helping them, those people probably recover a lot faster than the ones that don't, right? Yeah. 

Jennifer Tawil: It's true, uh, especially if it, they're second- and third-time parents, for sure, because they do have to obviously still care for their, you know, older children in some fashion.

Jennifer Tawil: But it also does give them a little bit of a, of a break. Like I said, my kids are both over 20, so I will sit down with a toddler and play all day 'cause I don't get that anymore. So I don't mind. And, um, but yeah, it's, it's really true. When you're... I could, I'll use myself as an example 'cause I didn't get support till I was six weeks postpartum.

Jennifer Tawil: And I was still doing all the things by myself. [00:16:00] Unfortunately, back then, partners did not get paternity leave. 

Dori Durbin: Mm-hmm. 

Jennifer Tawil: Now, like my clients, their partners are getting four weeks, three months paternity leave. It's in- it's incredible. I think it's great. But my husband had to go right back to work after one week, and that was it.

Jennifer Tawil: So yes, I was taking care of myself. I was taking care of my son. I still had to make myself, meals, whatever that looked like, which I was not successful in. The laundry, forget about it. I didn't even deal with that. And, um, and I was alone, and it was really bad. And, um, i- in the history of my life, I was 32 when I had my son, I'd never felt anxious or depressed.

Jennifer Tawil: I've always been a very luckily positive person. Like, I never really went through that, and it hit me. It, it hit me hard. Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. No, that's, I think that's the truth. Like, it, you just don't know. You don't know what your body's gonna do. You don't know how your emotions are gonna fan out. And I, I think back, I have [00:17:00] rheumatoid arthritis, and I think- Mm

Dori Durbin: back to before when I was pregnant, I didn't. I always wonder if I tried too hard. Like, I tried- 

Jennifer Tawil: Mm ... 

Dori Durbin: to stay on top of everything, try to handle everything. I felt like I wasn't a good parent, I guess, if I brought people in to do what I, what I should be able to do. You know? Yes. And so I always wonder if that, that did contribute a little bit to it because of all the stress and strain on my body that already was stressed and strained.

Dori Durbin: It never had the opportunity to really calm down and, and heal. Um, I think- 

Jennifer Tawil: I think that's, yeah, I think that's absolutely true. I, myself, did not think I could even complain- Yeah ... that I was feeling like I was failing or that I was not happy. You know, you're supposed to, you have a baby. This is supposed to be the most wonderful thing of your life, which in one sense it is, but in another sense it's so hard if you don't have anybody to help you.

Jennifer Tawil: You know, or telling you even or even just to have someone telling you how you're feeling is [00:18:00] normal. Even 'cause there's a lot of actually online support, there's a lot of virtual support for new parents, so even if you can't have someone come to your home. But even having that, having someone to say, like, "What you're going through and what you're feeling right now is normal," that is everything.

Jennifer Tawil: That is just everything. And I think, like you're saying, like, there's an expectation that we're just supposed to handle it all, and we're not supposed to complain, and we're not supposed to ask for help. And, especially, you know, for women, like, we're supposed to just, this is our natural thing that we're supposed to be doing.

Jennifer Tawil: But it's not always. And to go back to my background, because I was, you know, an investigator, like, I thought I was this tough cookie and I could do anything, and like, I don't even think I prepared myself the way I should have because I didn't go into it... You know, again, I didn't know what I didn't know.

Jennifer Tawil: But, um, I'm so glad that I'm in a place right now where I don't have [00:19:00] to let anyone else go through what I went through,

Dori Durbin: so if you were to give people like one piece of advice about how to prepare for postpartum, what would you say? 

Jennifer Tawil: So this is what I go through when I have a prenatal appointment with a parent before they have the baby, right?

Jennifer Tawil: So the one thing I do, especially, like if you're living in a place that has two levels, right? Could be an apartment, could be a condo, a house, whatever. Um, but even if not. You have to set up stations. Mm-hmm. I can tell you why. So most of the time, you know, you're spending a lot of time in your own bed with your baby.

Jennifer Tawil: It's just, you know, usually the bassinet is right next to your bed, and you're just you know, I'm in my bedroom now. Um, you're just kind of, like, spending a long, a lot of time here. And so I consider that station one. You know, so what should... Whatever you need within your arm's reach for the baby or for yourself, you need to set up here.

Jennifer Tawil: Because it's just gonna lessen, again, the mania of, "Where'd I put this? Where is this? I gotta [00:20:00] run this, and the baby's crying. I gotta leave the baby here and go to another room." Like, it's not good. And so same thing when you're, if you're on a, on another level or another part of your house or where you live, like you set up your other station there.

Jennifer Tawil: Most of the time it's someone's living room. And so, uh, you can have a little basket or a cart or just anything that is a container. And same thing, anything you need for the baby and for yourself, you set up there as like a, your little station so you don't have to, you don't have to get up from the couch if you don't want to, and there's no one there to hand it to you, right?

Jennifer Tawil: So that's That, I've been told, is also like takes a lot of the anxiety out of- Mm ... just getting through the day. You know? 

Dori Durbin: Organized, everything at hand's reach. Yeah. 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah, yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Really good. That's really, really good. Yeah, 

Jennifer Tawil: yeah. 

Dori Durbin: I'm thinking how, like, even the bathroom could be set up so it's not so stressful.

Dori Durbin: Like- ... when did, like, going to the [00:21:00] bathroom be stressful? But taking a shower can be stressful. 

Jennifer Tawil: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Also. No, for sure. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Jennifer Tawil: Yep, yep, yep. 

Dori Durbin: Well, another piece to what you do is not just working with them in their homes, but actually helping them once you do leave, and helping them figure out, "Okay, now that I'm going back to work, what do I do about childcare?"

Dori Durbin: And so I feel like when I went back to work, I had just a huge laundry list of concerns, and I wanted to bring someone into our house, but I was scared to death to bring someone into our house. But I wanted them to be this way, but I was... It was so hard to know exactly what to even ask or how to, to even verbalize what I wanted.

Dori Durbin: And you have a really cool program that you offer parents. So let's have you talk a little bit about that and how that all came to be. 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah, sure. It... what informed me that this needed to be created is I was working with my clients, let's say, throughout their whole time before they were going back to work.[00:22:00]

Jennifer Tawil: And because they knew my background, they started asking me, like, "What should I look for? What do I do?" You know, they... We were talking about the choice, do I have a nanny that the child is home, in their own home, safe with one person, or do they go to a daycare where there's multiple people and multiple eyes on them?

Jennifer Tawil: You know, it's a lot. It's a big... It's such a big decision to make. It's huge. It's actually... So one of the scariest things, I did it myself again. It's hard. So what was happening was these parents did not know what to look for and what to ask, either when they were interviewing either a nanny or they were interviewing the daycare manager, owner, whoever was running the facility.

Jennifer Tawil: And a lot of times, so one of my clients, she was considering, like, five different daycares in her area. And sh- to her, like, she went on a tour, she met with the people. They all looked good. They were different. Some were in-home, some were facilities, you know. There's [00:23:00] different, uh, versions. And, uh, she was like, "I don't know.

Jennifer Tawil: How do I choose?" And so the first thing I said to her, I said, "Well, do you know if they're all licensed?" In the State of New York, any daycare, doesn't matter if it's you have one baby in your home, you have to be licensed with the State of New York. So she said, "I don't know." So I said, "Well, let's go look."

Jennifer Tawil: Because I knew the websites to go to, right? So I... We went on the website, and two out of the five were not licensed. 

Dori Durbin: Wow. 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. And she panicked. She panicked. And so again, you know, my vision for parents is not to be stressed and anxious, to go through this whole period. It's so... Same thing, I don't want people to deal with the stress and anxiety as much when you're leaving your child, when you have to go back to work.

Jennifer Tawil: So I utilized my private investigator skills 'cause most of what I did was always conducting background checks. On all kinds of people. And [00:24:00] so, parents are not privy to the databases that I was. They're only, you have to be a licensed, you have to be licensed. You have to be a licensed investigator to be...

Jennifer Tawil: but every parent uh, has to do the interview. So I created an interview process with 10 questions to allow parents to ask the right questions. And it's, um, so that it seems like you're conducting a background check through the interview process. So all the topics that I would go through for a background check is, uh, related to the same questions that I developed.

Jennifer Tawil: So you're kind of develop- you're kind of conducting a background check through the questioning. And a lot- some of the questions are, unorthodox to what someone would normally ask, but what I've, the feedback I've gotten is that they felt empowered to ask the question because they're like, "Oh, well, it's a legitimate question.

Jennifer Tawil: I just would never think to ask [00:25:00] it." So yeah. So that's what I came up with because, again, I wanted to continue to support my clients in that way. 

Dori Durbin: I love that. I love the fact that you are... You basically are doing, like, a parallel background check on them, but you're giving them words to use that they feel comfortable with and confident.

Dori Durbin: And do you talk to them about what the answers are, too? Like, if they say this or... Yeah. 

Jennifer Tawil: So, yeah, so part of the course that I developed, actually, because I knew parents were gonna have questions. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah, 

Jennifer Tawil: So part of the course is the first Monday of every month, we go live in a private Facebook group, and I'm, I just hang out in there, and I'm just there to answer anybody's questions. Because I knew, I knew that they were gonna need a sounding board on some level. So once a month I'm just hanging out in the Facebook group and I, uh, you know, any questions that parents have they can ask me.

Dori Durbin: I love that. Is there something that most parents ask you [00:26:00] that that seems like you say it all the time? Like, your... What is that? 

Jennifer Tawil: They always is, "How do I know they're telling the truth?" 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Jennifer Tawil: I wonder about that. Yeah. You know? Like, h- how do I know that they're answering truthfully, you know? Uh, the course is actually called Trust But Verify.

Dori Durbin: Okay. 

Jennifer Tawil: Because you wanna trust these people, but you have to verify that they're trustworthy. You know what I mean? You wanna, like, really make sure. So, you know, so we workshop some answers that they- they've gotten. Uh, a lot of it is, again, this is through my training over the years, is visually, you know, like, what is their body language?

Jennifer Tawil: What is their eye contact? ... Their demeanor. Are they not willing to answer a question for some reason or do they seem hesitant? Or, you can- Mm-hmm ... you... There are just certain things you'll just, like, look for that, um, sometimes even if they noticed it during the interview, uh, and I... They also get, um, a notepad that helps them while they're interviewing the [00:27:00] candidate.

Jennifer Tawil: It kinda gives them, like, the questions, like, what are they doing with their eyes right now? What are they... So it's, like, prompting them to know what to look for, too. Okay. Because it's also, again, they're... This is an anxious time, and so you may have the questions in your head you wanna ask, but in the moment you're gonna maybe, like, forget, you know what I mean?

Jennifer Tawil: It's, it's emotional. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. I was just thinking, you might wanna market this for the first kindergarten school choice. 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's- ... it's true. It, it could be for... I guess that's true, too. I mean, some people do get to choose which kindergarten or nursery school, preschool- Mm-hmm

Jennifer Tawil: that their kids go to. So, uh, yeah, it could be used for anybody. Yeah. Anyone. Anytime you're interviewing, even a babysitter. Anytime you're leaving your child with somebody, you can, I think it's useful. 

Dori Durbin: I'm just thinking of all the poor, um, mother-in-laws who are getting grilled with your, your 10 questions now.

Jennifer Tawil: Oh my God. Hey I take no responsibility for... [00:28:00] But that, hey, that's, that's, that can be done. Well, it's- yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Um, you also mentioned that it might be wise for somebody to use it, like if they were gonna have their, let's say their kid go to a, a house and babysit, that there are some questions there that you could kind of flip it and have them ask questions of the family to kind of get a sense of- 

Jennifer Tawil: Y- yeah, I mean, when you think about it, uh, you know, I think people start babysitting at, like, 12 maybe.

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. That's kind of the age, you know? So, that too, like, that's a young person going into a, stranger's home. And I think the, a lot of the questions can be used for that, in that way too. Um, you know, it's... E- everyone needs, everyone deserves to be protected or, or, or feel like they're in a good place- Yeah

Jennifer Tawil: either on either side of the coin, right? The caregiver or the baby/child. Um, and I think also, um, a lot of times, people want to I guess [00:29:00] really check up on their kids. So I mean, my kids went to daycare. They were both in daycare. This, you know, again, 20 years ago. Now, the... And my clients tell me when their kids go to daycare, they get pictures and live video feeds, like all day long.

Jennifer Tawil: It's- so in one way, I guess that's okay, but then you're also creating, like... Oh, I can't imagine. I'm at work, and I'm just gonna, like, go check and see, like, "Is my kid in the room?" Like, I don't know. That- that's creating another anxiety. So I do feel like if you know that they're in the right place, that they're with the right people, then you don't have to go and do these, like, panic checks in the middle of the day is kinda what I see it, I don't know. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and now with, you know, AI, different things that, you know, you can duplicate video and things, even that wouldn't necessarily be legit either. You know, I'm not to say that people are using it, but down the road, who knows? So it's- 

Jennifer Tawil: No, that's- ... 

Dori Durbin: maybe not a good ... 

Jennifer Tawil: that's real.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. For real. [00:30:00] Yeah. Yeah. Concerning. So yeah, really interesting. I love that you put this together. Um, and you actually offer this to other nannies they can, other people too, or doulas, right? Other doulas can- 

Jennifer Tawil: Oh, yes ... yeah, sorry. Yes, yes. So part of the again, you know, I'm trying to, like, spread the...

Jennifer Tawil: Rid the world of anxiety and, and the panic. Yeah, so in, in order to, like, reach more people, what was, 'Cause I worked with somebody, like, how do I... I had no idea, how do I develop a digital course? I have no idea. But the person that helped me create it, she said, "You know, what was really helpful is if you start an affiliate program."

Jennifer Tawil: So it, it's mostly geared towards people that are in the birthing world, so doulas, and nannies, and things like that. But so it's... The affiliate program basically is they sign up as an affiliate, and then they can take the course and sell it to their clients. You know, so I'm in New [00:31:00] York, but there's a doula somewhere maybe in California- whose client is going back to work, and they're freaking out.

Jennifer Tawil: So that doula in California can say, "Hey, here's this interview process you can use, when you're deciding to leave, who you're leaving your child with." But it's, it's for anybody. I- there's been some stay-at-home moms that have signed up because they just- ... feel like they can share it with their communities.

Jennifer Tawil: So yeah, so it's really for anybody. Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: I love that. I think that's great. Yeah. And it's an opportunity, again, like you said, to take some of the fear out of it, to be able to have a system that is, again, background checking the people that your child is going to. I think that's amazing. So awesome.

Dori Durbin: Awesome. 

Jennifer Tawil: Thank you. 

Dori Durbin: Well, one of the things that I want to ask you, this is a little bit of a challenge. So- Mm-hmm ... um, you know that I help experts, kid-size their content into kids books, and I'm always looking at ways to help kids deal with life's challenges. 

Dori Durbin: So if you think through this for a second, [00:32:00] what do you wish parents taught their children earlier- Hmm

Dori Durbin: that could help kids better adjust to, let's say, a new caregiver, a new sibling, or some of the changes that are gonna happen in life? 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. The most important thing is w- really what I do in my postpartum doula business, especially if there's toddlers and young children at home, is I come meet them b- before the baby is born.

Dori Durbin: Oh. 

Jennifer Tawil: And this is really important because I think a lot of times parents, unknowingly think that like, "Oh, they're just two or three, like they'll go to any adult and they're fine," but it's not always the case. And you know, again, that child is also gonna go through a transition of their own, like I said, you know, not getting the same attention from their parent.

Jennifer Tawil: And so, you want them to feel comfortable with someone. So I always say, you know, like, "Always expose them as much as possible." You know, or you wanna even call it exposure therapy. You know, if there's g- if they're hiring a doula, a nanny, a babysitter, like [00:33:00] invite that person to come over like a few weeks before whatever the event is, and maybe have them sit with them.

Jennifer Tawil: Like, I will sometimes sit and color with the toddler to, you know, they just kinda get to know me, um, and so they don't feel so, you know, weird that this stranger's in their house. But I'll even go forward- Because so my son had some developmental disabilities, and so he had a lot of anxiety as a result of that.

Jennifer Tawil: And so what we would do is any time he had to change school buildings, right? So, 'cause I don't know about where your listeners live, but where I live the kids have to change buildings every two to three years, the elementary level. It's not K through six. Like, my elementary was K through six, but these are like kindergarten and one, two and three, four and five.

Jennifer Tawil: So I would take him o- on a tour of the building a [00:34:00] week before school started, and we did that every year. And I really think it's important whatever, you know, your child is, you know, needs that necessarily or not, I think it's so important to give kids the ability to feel comfortable in a new environment with new people.

Dori Durbin: A- a- and you're helping them kind of sense if they're safe, if they're comfortable. Like, just how y- they can have a change, but they can still be okay. 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. Yes. 'Cause a lot of ki- a lot of school districts do, like, meet the teacher.

Jennifer Tawil: But it's like, uh, it always seems to be like two days before school starts, and I don't find that to be very comforting. the other thing actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I tell parents, usually s- especially elementary schools, there's like a playground outside. I tell them, "Just come and just go and play with your kid in that same playground.

Jennifer Tawil: Just don't even go in the building. Just let them be on the monkey bars and, like, get to know, like, the [00:35:00] playground." It's so comforting to them when they go back, f- again, when school starts, and they just feel like it's not so new, they have some type of familiarity with it.

Jennifer Tawil: I really think it's important. 

Dori Durbin: That's really great. That's great advice. I think that's something that we should all do at some level with them, you know, give them those safe spots. 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Awesome. Awesome. Okay, I know that there's somebody out there right now who is- Absolutely ... probably pregnant, or maybe they just had a child, and they're wondering, "How in the world do I get hold of Jen, and when can she start?"

Dori Durbin: Ah. So can you give us, can you give us some information as far as where the quickest, best way is to reach you, and how they can do that? 

Jennifer Tawil: Yes. Uh, so as you said in the beginning, my company is called Lean On Me Westchester Doula, and um, it's also, right now it's myself, and I have a small team of doulas that work with me, um, because I also want to try to help as many people as I can.

Jennifer Tawil: Um, so if you're in the Westchester County, New York [00:36:00] area, and usually it's within, like, a 45-mile... 45-minute radius. So we serve, like, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam, Fairfield County in Connecticut, that kind of little area. Um, and my, my website is leanonmewestchesterdoula.com. Um, and if you're interested, though, in the course and learning more the website is privateeyeparent.com, because I'm hoping that when people go through this course, they get their little private eye certificate, kinda like you've achieved status.

Jennifer Tawil: So it's privateeyeparent.com. And I wanna also say, like, there is a free red flags checklist that people can download, um, so they can use that when they are interviewing people. 

Dori Durbin: That's awesome. What a great resource, Jen. That's fabulous. 

Jennifer Tawil: Thank you so much. 

Dori Durbin: Yes. Okay, so before we wrap up, I have one last question.

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: We always look for an action step as soon as somebody leaves [00:37:00] this podcast, and they're in... you know, headed off into the next thing. So what is one small thing that they can do this week that is going to prepare them for the next stage of their life? 

Jennifer Tawil: Oh, yeah. I'm gonna focus on, people who are expecting, you know, babies 'cause that's always the biggest

Jennifer Tawil: Um, when you start thinking about like I said, you know, who is your village, who's gonna be there to help you, and if you don't have family or neighbors or friends start the process of... Usually there's an organization that's local to you that, um, like so where I live, we have the Hudson Valley Birth Network.

Jennifer Tawil: And that network is comprised of anybody that can help you prenatally or postpartum. So doulas, chiropractors, pelvic floor therapists. You know, like think about connecting with as many practitioners as you can, um, ahead of time, and ask questions. [00:38:00] Don't... A- and we touched on this, don't be afraid to ask for help.

Jennifer Tawil: You are a human being and you cannot do it in isolation. And, um, and ask for referrals. Like, a lot of times people ask their gynecologist for referrals, and the gynecologist, believe it or not, they don't have these networking connections, believe it or not. Ask people for referrals.

Jennifer Tawil: Another thing that's really important is there are perinatal mental health specialists. Because sometimes people just need to, like, get on a Zoom with somebody and talk through their issues that they're having. I think, again, like ever since COVID, like supporting your mental health is much more accept- acceptable now, right?

Jennifer Tawil: Or people think about it more than they used to. Uh, so yeah, like just, just- Just set yourself up for success, whatever that looks like. Don't be afraid. And if people... I'll also go a step [00:39:00] further. You don't have to be in New York or be my client. If anybody here wants to ask me a question, like what or who do they contact where they live, 'cause I am connected with doulas all over the country.

Jennifer Tawil: And let's say somebody, you know, wants, you know, to find a doula near them, anybody can send me an email. There's a contact page on my website on Instagram. Actually, I'll just share this because everybody's on Instagram. On Instagram, I am Jennifer Tawil Westchester Doula. So you can DM me there.

Jennifer Tawil: I'll answer your question there. I'm happy to, I'm happy to help anybody. 

Dori Durbin: That's amazing. What a great offer, Jennifer. Thank you for that. 

Jennifer Tawil: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Absolutely. 

Jennifer Tawil: My pleasure. 

Dori Durbin: I know people are going to be wanting to reach out to you, and I'm excited for them to do that because I think having that support and being able to start off your child's life in a way that is really the best for all of you.

Dori Durbin: So I appreciate all the [00:40:00] information you've given us today. 

Jennifer Tawil: Oh, thank you. It was just fun. 

Dori Durbin: Thank you, Jennifer. And thank you so much for listening to That's Good Parenting. If today's episode encouraged you, helped you feel a little less alone, or gave you a simple step that you can take as a parent, which it did, by the way- Mm-hmm

Dori Durbin: be sure to share this episode with somebody else who could use it as well. And remember, parenting does not have to be perfect to be good. It's just one small step at a time so that we can look back and say, "Now that, that moment, that was good parenting." We'll see you soon.