Scott Shepherd and Dori Durbin Buzzsprout
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Dori Durbin: Welcome to That's Good Parenting, the podcast that searches for simple steps to reduce your parenting stress. I'm your host, Dori Durbin, children's book illustrator, book coach, ghost writer, and podcaster. So parenting today can feel a little bit overwhelming and complicated. We're balancing screen time, emotional development, trying to raise confident kids, resilient kids, in a world that looks very different from the one that most of us grew up in.

Dori Durbin: Today, we're talking about something surprisingly simple that can make a really big difference for kids, time outside. Our guest today is Scott Shepherd, an outdoor educator and founder of the Wild Word Institute, where he helps families, schools, and communities reconnect kids with nature and outdoor learning.

Dori Durbin: Welcome to the show, Scott.

Scott Shepherd: Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Dori. I'm really excited to be here.

Dori Durbin: I told him in the beginning, I'm so jealous. He's outside in this beautifully lit backyard area. I live in Michigan, so any time I see a Californian [00:01:00] sunshine, I am so jealous. It just shows how much you are just dedicated to being outside, Scott.

Dori Durbin: So one of the things that I think of with you, and I wonder, is because you have dedicated your time to the outdoors and to educating people about outside, you must have a personal story that really got you into this career choice. So what started you in this area ?

Scott Shepherd: I can remember my parents taking me backpacking as a child. On my first backpacking trip I got lost. I got- Oh ... totally consumed by mosquitoes. My mom found me hugging a tree and crying in the middle of the Sierra Nevada mountains, and I, I was terrified.

Scott Shepherd: I wasn't sure I ever wanted to go outside again. But I was lucky enough to have parents and family members that really drove a personal connection to nature through exploration, independent play, through travel through sports. But- Really, like, probably the most pivotal moment for me in my adolescence was I, [00:02:00] I moved away from home when I was 16 years old to live on board a tall ship called the SV Concordia-

Scott Shepherd: and sailed nearly all the way around the world traveling through the Caribbean, the Panama Canal, crossing the Pacific twice and the Equator twice under sail. and that gave me the opportunity to really burst the bubble that I was living in and see just how big the world is, see just how small I am in it.

Scott Shepherd: And I felt inspired to build a career that I could use and navigate to engage with the natural world and to inspire others to do the same.

Dori Durbin: Wow. How did you end up on a ship?

Scott Shepherd: I mean, I was a 16-year-old boy in Southern California who was making all the wrong choices and hanging out with the wrong people, and my parents were pretty keen to get rid of me for a little while.

Scott Shepherd: And I was pretty keen to get out of their house. So my guidance counselor found this amazing program called Class Afloat, which was based out of Canada on board a ship that made berth in Bermuda with a Polish captain and international professional [00:03:00] crew. And it just really opened my eyes, like I said, to cultures, communities, languages, food, travel, environment, that made me feel impassioned and inspired to continue exploring, and I've been lucky enough to build a career that has allowed me to do so.

Dori Durbin: That's amazing. I mean, most people, think that, camping out in your backyard is exploring the environment.

Scott Shepherd: Sure. You,

Dori Durbin: you took a ship and, traveled to completely different countries. That's amazing.

Scott Shepherd: not all outdoor time is, built equally, but I would say that for some people an overnight in your backyard can be incredibly inspiring and can really help to foster a lifelong connection with the natural world. For others you might wanna take a longer and wider adventure, but you have to build the competence and confidence to really do so, and make sure that you're surrounded by people and environments that are both physically and emotionally safe.

Dori Durbin: I was gonna ask, you [00:04:00] know, with parents who are so busy juggling all the things, right?

Dori Durbin: The practices, school, all of the things that you think you're supposed to do as a parent.

Dori Durbin: You know, how, how do you get kids to enjoy being outside? And one of the things that comes to my mind right away is I grew up on a farm. I grew up- outside. Yeah. And there are so many people who did not have that.

Dori Durbin: So, like, when you're stepping back from this and you're saying, "Okay, we're talking about mosquitoes and bugs and all the things," how do I take that as a parent and fit that into my crazy schedule?

Scott Shepherd: I mean, it reminds me of a statement that I heard from a therapist, like, decades ago, which is that we're constantly juggling balls, and some of those balls are rubber, and other ones are glass.

Scott Shepherd: Mm-hmm. And if the rubber balls drop, they bounce at our side. If they're glass, they shatter. So parents really have a number of priorities that they're keeping in the air at all times, and it can be really difficult to [00:05:00] figure out, like, how to build in what's best for our kids. And like you said, you know, not everyone has had historic access to the outdoors.

Scott Shepherd: People haven't always felt like they belong in the outdoors, depending on their lived experience, or they might just not have the transportation or economic wherewithal to purchase equipment, to purchase materials, to purchase instruction to build the competence to spend time outside. But I, I'd say baby steps, even, like, eating a meal outdoors is a great way to connect with nature. Listening to music outside, growing a garden. If you don't have access to, outdoor space at your home growing houseplants, having pets. We develop environmental identity through our relationship with living things, and there are living things all around us.

Scott Shepherd: There's this amazing program in, the Monterey Bay Area called The Bird School Project, which does an [00:06:00] incredible job of teaching educators how to start environmental education programs on their campus by connecting young people to birds that are in their community. We all have birds in our community.

Scott Shepherd: You know, birds have figured out how to adapt and live in urban environments, and that can be a great way to connect to nature as well. So I'd say just baby steps. And we teach our children what feels safe. So if we feel safe, if we model confidence in the outdoors and we model comfort in the outdoors, then our young people around us will feel safe, too.

Dori Durbin: I have a great story that plays right off this. First married, w- as soon as we got married, my husband and I decided that we would take a group of s- students, camping. Yeah. And we had a tent, and we had the, all of the parts and pieces. Yeah, I don't camp a whole lot. But we had- ... everything together, we thought, and it rained.

Dori Durbin: And it rained. Yeah. And it rained. And the kids who went knew how to manage and work through that better than we did. [00:07:00] And I always tell my husband, I'm like, "It's amazing when you see people who have grown up- Even just with small experiences, their confidence and what they can handle is so much higher.

Dori Durbin: And I think you had even mentioned at one point that when we talk about kids having skills, that the outdoor gives us all kinds of skills. So can you talk a little bit about that ?

Scott Shepherd: Absolutely. There are so many transferable skills from learning a new thing in the outdoors.

Scott Shepherd: You know, one of the most common metaphors that people use is learning to ride a bike.

Scott Shepherd: Everybody remembers that moment that they learned to ride a bike, and the lessons that we walk away from that are we get back up, we try again, we don't give up, we find balance, we trust each other we find the strength to let go.

Scott Shepherd: For me I love to surf, and surfing has taught me so many lessons. You know, it's taught me to hold my breath and take waves on the head. It's taught me to keep paddling even when my arms feel like spaghetti.

Scott Shepherd: It's taught [00:08:00] me to wait, to get to the outside. It's taught me to be patient for the right waves. It's taught me to be tolerant of poor weather, storms, pollution, other people. There are so many lessons that could be learned. But the research around time spent outside is, is pretty well understood.

Scott Shepherd: Spending time outside, even for 15 minutes, can have a significant impact on your physical, mental, and emotional health. and not just that. For young people it can improve executive functioning, it can improve critical thinking skills, it can improve emotional regulation. There are all kinds of benefits that we walk away with from spending time outside.

Scott Shepherd: And that's one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about empowering young people to build a relationship with nature.

Dori Durbin: so are those benefits, because the brain has a chance to relax? Is it taking the stress out of that? Like, why does that make such a big difference?

Scott Shepherd: You know, there are so many different studies that are evaluating all of these different [00:09:00] kinds of things. In some cases, it's like stepping outside of your comfort zone, helping you to build self-efficacy, helping you to build confidence. Learning a new skill is transferable to learning other new skills.

Scott Shepherd: But you're correct in assuming that it allows our brain to slow down and reset. Especially in a world that's dominated by time spent on screens, time spent on social media, our brains become accustomed to constantly being flooded with dopamine, and eventually it's exhausted of those chemicals that make us feel good and make us feel like we're being mentally rewarded.

Scott Shepherd: So going outside helps us to have a mental reset and allows us to slow down, to turn our attention outward rather than inward. and tolerance for uncertainty and adversity, you talk about weathering through a rainstorm, that's a skill in itself. And that's developed through exposure.

Scott Shepherd: You know, we have to experience uncertainty and adversity in order to be tolerant of it and in order to build grit and resilience. And a lot of the time we can find that [00:10:00] in the outdoors.

Dori Durbin: That's a really interesting concept because I, I do think that that's something we expect our kids to be able to do.

Dori Durbin: Mm-hmm. We may not prepare them to do that, to build grit, to build resiliency, especially when it's physical. Absolutely. And it's not just physical on the outside, it's also mental too, right?

Scott Shepherd: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, when I was teaching elementary school, I expected my students to be able to share. But I never taught them how to do so.

Scott Shepherd: I didn't give them clear expectations on how to share and how to navigate centers, how to sit quietly, how to build stamina for listening, and, because of that, they weren't meeting my expectations, and I was so confused. But it took me time to realize, like, I have to explicitly teach what's expected of them in this space.

Scott Shepherd: And, you know, the same is true in the outdoors. If we want our students or our young people to be resilient, we have to go out and show them how to do so. We have to teach them what it means to be resilient, and we have to [00:11:00] model it for each other as well

Dori Durbin: That's so good, and such a, a big truth for life in general.

Scott Shepherd: Absolutely, especially in Epic. Like I, experienced hypothermia for the first time when I was living- Yeah ... out of a kayak in British Columbia. I was wearing a, a T-shirt and swim trunks underneath a paddle jacket and a pair of rubber overalls in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, and I didn't realize how to keep myself warm.

Scott Shepherd: Wound up needing to beach out of an emergency to warm myself up, and within moments one of my colleagues that I was paddling with had a big cup of hot coffee for me to warm myself up. And what that really taught me was that even in those moments of feeling cold, tired, and hungry, we can look out for each other's needs and we can support each other, but we also have to be willing to plan ahead and prepare and put in the work to keep ourselves safe in new and novel environments.

Scott Shepherd: So as parents, I think, you know, we can do the same. We can model how to, you know, remain comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. We can [00:12:00] model how to protect ourselves, how to prepare, how to plan ahead. And sometimes our kids aren't gonna do that, and we have to be willing- ... to allow them to learn experientially as well.

Dori Durbin: That's probably where the fear comes in for parents in the outdoors, right? Especially if you're not- Mm-hmm ... comfortable with it, is like not knowing how your child's gonna react, and if it's going to be, like, a major thing or if they're gonna handle it.

Scott Shepherd: Yeah. I mean, fear is real as a parent, and I'd say that the best way to overcome our fears is to expose ourselves to new opportunities to face them. If we develop relationships that are rooted in trust and based in trust, then we should be able to trust our kids to go out into new and novel environments and to be safe, you know?

Scott Shepherd: And if they don't, like that's okay. We have to be willing to allow them to not react positively, and 'cause that, that's a learning opportunity in itself.

Dori Durbin: One of the things I definitely wanted to ask you was about the Outdoor Bill of Rights.

Dori Durbin: it's something I had never heard of, So can you share what that [00:13:00] is with our audience?

Scott Shepherd: Sure. So the Outdoor Bill of Rights came into play, under the Schwarzenegger administration in California, so it's been around for quite a while. And the purpose is recommending a fundamental list of experiences that every child in the state of California would benefit from.

Scott Shepherd: It includes things like having a safe place to play, having the opportunity to explore in nature, having the opportunity to learn to swim, to go fishing and catch a fish, follow a trail, camp under the stars, ride a bike, go boating, connect with the past, connect with our shared history, and to plant a seed.

Scott Shepherd: So all young people, at least in the state of California, have the right to do those things. And our government systems, our education systems are collaborating in such a way to try to bring those experiences to all young people. They're not doing it perfectly. There's still a lot of opportunities that young people don't have access to for a variety of different reasons, including cultural reasons.

Scott Shepherd: But [00:14:00] I think, you know, the California State Parks Department is doing an incredible job of expanding equitable access. the National Parks Program is also doing an incredible job of expanding equitable access. And there are so many non-profit organizations and foundations that are working to support that, effort as well.

Scott Shepherd: So regardless of where your listeners are out across the United States, like remembering that their young children, the young people in their lives have the right to have a relationship with nature is an important thing.

Dori Durbin: I love that they wrote those things out. It's almost like a challenge checklist.

Dori Durbin: And I think it, it does help the families that haven't had that exposure to nature .

Scott Shepherd: There are so many different things that stand in the way of a young person's ability to build a relationship with the outdoors. A lot of them are things like perceived risks or fears, and a lot of them are structural or systemictransportation, like food, like equipment, like instruction or [00:15:00] expertise.

Scott Shepherd: I always feel hopeful when I see organizations working to provide those types of essential resource supports to engage with nature and to engage that access. That's been a really big part of my career, and I feel re- really lucky to have been able to, engage young people in the outdoors in that way.

Dori Durbin: So there are organizations that provide, let's say, transportation or food or instruction in some way?

Scott Shepherd: Oh, absolutely. There are tons of organizations that are doing that all across the United States right now, whether it's your local parks department, whether it's your state parks department, or whether it's a small nonprofit, or foundation.

Scott Shepherd: There are so many organizations that are working diligently to improve equitable access to the outdoors regardless of where you are. I worked for a small nonprofit in Southern California, and that was the whole focus of our work was, connecting young people to the importance of protecting the places where we play and connecting young people to the transformative [00:16:00] power of the outdoors by providing transportation, in- instruction, equipment, materials, all at no cost, including food.

Scott Shepherd: We did just about everything that you could imagine outside, and there are a lot of organizations that are doing the same kind of work.

Dori Durbin: That's amazing. how would you look that up for your area?

Scott Shepherd: I would start by researching your local state, county, and city parks departments and see what recreation opportunities are available.

Scott Shepherd: And then I would send me an email. You know, come visit my website, wildwordinstitute.net, and I'd be happy to help anybody across the country find resources to improve equitable access, in their community

Dori Durbin: I, I love this whole conversation about just having those experiences, those adventures.

Dori Durbin: I had so many. I was taken deer hunting. I was taken kayaking, canoeing. You know, I never got to go on a ship, unfortunately, like that. But- ... a lot of those memories that were kind of a love-hate memory have become just absolute love [00:17:00] memories later. So-

Scott Shepherd: Yeah ...

Dori Durbin: from your perspective, what kinds of outdoor experiences do you wish every child could have during their childhood?

Scott Shepherd: Well, what you just described in the outdoor industry we call type two fun.

Dori Durbin: Oh. Didn't know it

Scott Shepherd: was a type.

Dori Durbin: In

Scott Shepherd: in the moment it might feel like suffering, but afterwards- Yeah ... it feels a lot like fun, and that's because of the fact that we've overcome things in the process. It's because we've engaged in novel experiences.

Scott Shepherd: We've built core memories. I mean, for me, I think every child should learn how to ride a bike. Every child should learn to swim, and unfortunately that, that doesn't happen in a lot of places across the country. When I worked in San Diego County, I would often work with 18 and 19-year-old kids that had grown up their entire lives in San Diego and had never been to the beach.

Scott Shepherd: Wow. You know, that, that's wild to me, that there are these structural inequities that prohibit access to such an incredible resource that's right in their backyard. But, other ones, I mean, I would say, ca- camping [00:18:00] under the stars, watching a bird through a pair of binoculars- collecting shells, collecting sea glass. there's a lot of research around, like, what activities in early childhood inspire positive environmental behaviors in adulthood, and almost all of them are things that like parks departments don't want kids to do, like- Oh

Scott Shepherd: climbing trees, throwing rocks, breaking sticks, building collections, catching animals, catching insects. Like, all of those types of experiences, if we weave them into young people's lives, we're helping our planet to raise a more environmentally literate and environmentally aware community and hopefully developing positive environmental behaviors in the long run.

Dori Durbin: So curious question, why do parks not let us do that? Like, is it, is it an erosion type of situation? Like, what is it? What's stopping them from letting them do that?

Scott Shepherd: There are a lot of different reasons, and from my opinion is that it has a [00:19:00] lot to do with the Eurocentric relationship with outdoor recreation.

Scott Shepherd: Like- Whereas for other communities of color, historically, if you were alone in nature, you weren't safe. Not to mention that you have to travel through territories that maybe aren't politically accepting of your identity or your perspective, just to get to what some might consider nature.

Scott Shepherd: But a lot of parks departments are focused on this concept of Leave No Trace, which I'm a huge fan of Leave No Trace. I think it's a really important set of environmental ethics, but it prohibits things like collection.

Scott Shepherd: It prohibits things like, building structures. It prohibits things like climbing trees, which are shown to improve environmental behaviors in adulthood if you provide young people access to those experiences. And not just that, but for a lot of cultures, their historic relationship with nature is really closely entwined with collection, whether it's, like, [00:20:00] gathering mushrooms or herbs or fish or deer hunting, you know, whatever that might be.

Scott Shepherd: And then for other, like, indigenous communities, it also has a lot to do with, like, how you influence the land. The use of prescribed and cultural fire is huge, and for 250 years in the state of California, we prohibited indigenous communities from engaging in that practice, and now we're experiencing these huge catastrophic wildfires and realizing, oh my gosh, this cultural practice actually has significant scientific merits.

Scott Shepherd: Traditional ecological knowledge is lining up with what we understand about nature from years of scientific research and study. So I, I, I'd say, like, to answer your question it has a lot to do with that Eurocentric perspective of what you're supposed to do outside, and not all outdoor experiences are created equally.

Scott Shepherd: A barbecue can be just as impactful as a hike. A soccer game [00:21:00] can be just as impactful as paddling a kayak. we should be making sure that everybody has the ability to engage with the outdoors in whichever way they see fit

Dori Durbin: I love that. And by impactful, you're referring to the emotional, mental, and then experiential side of things, right?

Scott Shepherd: Yeah, and physical health as well. You know what I mean? Like, by engaging in community over a meal, breaking bread together, we're building relationships, not just with each other, but with the natural world. And if you do that consistently in a specific place outdoors, think about how likely you are to care for and protect that place in the future.

Scott Shepherd: You develop a sense of place through your memories and relationships with that environment, you know? So if you're having a big barbecue with a huge group of extended family at a park every Sunday, that park is gonna have a special place in your heart forever,

Dori Durbin: You know, you get my brain thinking of all the places we've ever been and spent time. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's really [00:22:00] powerful. Yeah.

Scott Shepherd: I feel really lucky to have developed some practices in my own life to help root myself in a sense of place, even when I'm in a new environment.

Scott Shepherd: And that's a big part of the work that I do with other people is, like, demonstrating to them how they can adopt those behaviors and practices themselves.

Dori Durbin: Okay, so now you've got me curious. Let's say we move. We move into- Yeah ... a new place. How do I get centered into that place, like exactly what you're saying?

Scott Shepherd: The first thing that I would do is to adopt a practice called a sit spot. So you find a special place, wherever it is that you are, and you sit there every day, maybe one minute, maybe five minutes, maybe half an hour, and you turn your attention outward without an agenda. You don't take notes.

Scott Shepherd: You don't draw pictures. You just sit and you look, you listen, you smell, you touch, you taste. And if you do that consistently over weeks, months, seasons, you're [00:23:00] gonna notice changes in that environment that are naturally happening in the world around you, whether they're weather or whether they're the species of insects and birds that you can see and hear, or whether it's the species of flowers that are starting to bloom or the condition of the trees.

Scott Shepherd: You'll start to notice things that you didn't notice previously. And that's, like, one really easy way to start developing a relationship with a new place. Another one is to pick up the practice of scientific illustration. I say scientific illustration because it's not artwork. A lot of people are really intimidated by the idea of creating art.

Scott Shepherd: We're not creating art. We're making scientific observations. So it doesn't matter if it's good, doesn't matter if it's bad, but you're drawing a picture of- whatever it is that you're looking at to the best of your ability, and you're asking yourself three questions. What do you notice? What do you wonder?

Scott Shepherd: And what does it remind you of? Mm. and you can take those questions and apply them to any environment, [00:24:00] any phenomenon that you're exploring, whether it's clouds, whether it's birds, whether it's plants, whether it's people, whether it's buildings. What do you notice? What do you wonder? What does it remind you of?

Scott Shepherd: Mm. Helps your brain to engage in that experience. After you've asked yourself those questions, start saying it out loud to yourself. Monologue what it is that you're observing. Mm. Tell it to your friends. Get them involved. Bring your kids. Bring your community, and you'll be amazed by the connections and relationships that are formed, not just with nature, but with each other and with yourself.

Dori Durbin: That's so... It's so simple. It's so simple, but very powerful sounding.

Scott Shepherd: Yeah and v- very powerful, and also, you know, like, it is rooted in my personal perspective. So for some people it might be, like, go grab a, a ball. Go grab, some food. Just, like, take a seat. Sit with a friend. Breathe the air.

Scott Shepherd: Think deeply. Do whatever you gotta [00:25:00] do, but do it outside, and you can help to develop a sense of place.

Dori Durbin: So would this work for somebody who, let's say, has ADHD or has some of the traits where maybe their energy and their focus is different than other people?

Scott Shepherd: I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was nine years old.

Scott Shepherd: I've done a lot of work with schools and nonprofits and government agencies to develop practices that improveexperiences for neurodivergent people in the outdoors, in the natural world, in, cultural resource environments, whether it's museums, parks, what have you.

Scott Shepherd: And I know, like, in my own life, I didn't always feel like I belonged in the classroom. I didn't always feel, like, really deeply connected with my teachers or classmates, but I always felt like I belonged in the outdoors. And you mentioned ADHD. Like, one of the symptoms of ADHD is this idea of hyperfocus.[00:26:00]

Scott Shepherd: Mm. there's all these different diag- diagnostic criteria in ADHD ranging from, like, excessive running and jumping, excessive climbing, like, talking too much, you know? But when a young person or anyone with ADHD is actively engaged and interested in something that they're learning- All of those symptoms disappear and their focus becomes like a laser, just drawn in deeply.

Scott Shepherd: For me, I've tried to use hyperfocus throughout my career almost like a superpower, and I, I try to intentionally bring out hyperfocus so that I can think differently, I can get things done quickly, I can you know, approach w- challenges with novel solutions. And I think a lot of people can do that as well.

Scott Shepherd: Like I said before, the menta- mental, physical, and emotional health benefits of spending time outside are well [00:27:00] understood, and they aren't different for neurodivergent people. Those impacts are still positive. They still have that same lasting impact. Yeah.

Dori Durbin: Well, I think, probably any kid would wanna develop their superpower if they had the ability to do that, so that-

Scott Shepherd: Absolutely.

Scott Shepherd: And I think, a lot of parents would do well to start thinking about diagnostic criteria as a blessing. Mm. When I was teaching in the classroom, when I met a, an, a parent who had, like, a recent ADHD diagnosis or a recent autism diagnosis, I would always say congratulations- because, they were opening their mind and their experience to a whole new perspective, and that's just a wonderful thing. It's not something to be seen as a deficit. It's not something to be seen necessarily as a disability. It's, it's something that's a blessing, and we should celebrate that.

Dori Durbin: having a diagnosis d- isn't a stigma. It's an opportunity to learn more, right?

Scott Shepherd: I took this amazing class when I was in college called Theater of the Oppressed and we used this particular kind of [00:28:00] instruction where we would put on these skits and you would have social conflict that w- would occur in these skits,

Scott Shepherd: And that audience member would step in, take the place of the actor, and change the outcome of the conflict. So I... that always reminds me whenever I'm experiencing a challenge, whether it's in the workplace or as a parent, now, this is an opportunity. It's not a crisis. It's a, it's an opportunity for me to influence the outcome towards something positive.

Dori Durbin: That's beautiful. I love that. Yeah. Well, it's obviously followed you your whole life seeing opportunities and challenges and not crisises, ' you've had so many experiences that could have turned out totally different, .

Scott Shepherd: One thing that comes to mind, when I was working for California State Parks here in the Santa Cruz area, in 2020 there was a catastrophic wildfire that burned 90% of California's oldest state park called Big Basin. people didn't believe that redwood forests could burn in the way that Big Basin burned, but it was a huge, enormous wildfire.

Scott Shepherd: And when the park [00:29:00] reopened, people were angry. I remember people getting in my face, shouting at me, wagging fingers at me, and people were sad. I remember people weeping and holding them as they cried for these places that they had gone camping with their grandparents- ... that they had these deep and meaningful relationships with.

Scott Shepherd: And what I realized was This was an opportunity to develop a space where people could safely emote and move from devastation to inspiration. So I created this project called The Big Basin Art About, where we invited 18 different artists of different mediums to come on the first camping trip in Big Basin since the CZU Fire, which was that catastrophic wildfire at the time.

Scott Shepherd: And now when you go to Big Basin, you have the opportunity to benefit from that artwork, and you can interpret your emotions and your experiences through that lens, through the lens of these artists who are looking at the landscape from a past, present, and future perspective.

Scott Shepherd: And that's one of the many ways that we can turn crises, [00:30:00] whether they're global climate change influenced crises or social crises in the environment, into opportunity for positivity and for hope.

Dori Durbin: That's amazing. Oh my gosh. I wanna go see that. That sounds awesome.

Scott Shepherd: Yeah, please come. Please come to the Santa Cruz Mountains and visit me.

Scott Shepherd:

Dori Durbin: That'd be amazing. Well, Scott, I know our listeners want more, and so one thing I really need to know is where can they find you? How do they get ahold of you?

Scott Shepherd: Sometimes it's kinda tough to find Scott Shepherd on LinkedIn 'cause there's a lot of us, and somehow we're all redheads. So, if you throw a M-E-D at the end of my name, which is Masters in Education, you'll be able to find me pretty simply on LinkedIn. The other one would be to visit my website, which is wildwordinstitute.net.

Scott Shepherd: and you can send me a message. You can subscribe to my newsletter. you can join me on my podcast that I'll be launching, in early June. And, you know, I look forward to connecting with those listeners who are also inspired to connect young people in their lives to the outdoors and supporting them to do so.

Dori Durbin: So I know there's [00:31:00] a bunch of listeners who are really inspired to get their kids outside. And if they could do that, like, if they could get off the podcast, walk out their door, what is one way that they could help their kids really connect to nature simply and easily?

Scott Shepherd: I'd say start with a sit spot. You know, go find a special place. Everyone can have a special place. And visit it, for five minutes, for 10 minutes, for a half hour every day for the next week. And as you're sitting around the dinner table talking about your roses and thorns talk about what you saw in your sit spot.

Scott Shepherd: Share with each other the stories of your experiences and your explorations together. Another great way to start is to, build a relationship with your pets, with your house plants. Start illustrating, start observing, start wondering, asking yourself, what does this remind you of, what do you notice, and talk to your friends and family about it.

Scott Shepherd: I know that by engaging in those kinds of practices, people c- can help to strengthen their sense of physical and [00:32:00] emotional safety in the outdoors, and continue to explore together in ways that will inspire deep and meaningful relationships for a lifetime.

Dori Durbin: All right. There's no excuse for anyone to stay inside.

Dori Durbin: We have given you the tools. Scott has given you the tools, and they're simple, fun things to do. I think you have, opened someone's eyes, and hopefully opened up their door to their backyard.

Scott Shepherd: I hope so. I'll see them out there.

Dori Durbin: Scott, thank you so much for your time today, for all the insight that you've given us, and just, just your honesty about your own experiences as well.

Dori Durbin: We really appreciate your willingness to share your story, but also show us how resilient our kids could be if we just intentionally plan that.

Scott Shepherd: Yeah. Ab- absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Doria. I look forward to connecting with some of your listeners soon.

Dori Durbin: Awesome. Thank you. And for our listeners, those of you who are still on the fence, get out the door and make that change into the outside. I know that you'll be able to step back, look out, and say, "Now that, that was [00:33:00] good parenting." Talk soon.