Dori Durbin: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to That's Good Parenting, the podcast that searches for simple steps to reduce parenting stress. I'm your host, Dori Durbin, children's book illustrator, book coach, and podcaster. I help parents and family focused experts, kid size, big ideas into children's stories that kids can actually use and enjoy.
Dori Durbin: Have you ever noticed how much harder it is for your child to calm down, focus, or just be bored without reaching for a screen? More and more parents are asking the same question, is technology making it harder for our kids to recognize and regulate their emotions? And that's exactly what we're diving in today.
Dori Durbin: Today's guest is Amy Reyes Hoof, an early childhood expert over 20, with over 26 years of experience in child development and education. She's currently a. State Early learning and literacy specialist for the Wyoming Department of Education and has worked as a Head Start director, Montessori teacher, and a kindergarten teacher.
Dori Durbin: Amy is helping families navigate [00:01:00] technology and getting them outdoors. Amy, welcome. It's so good to have you here.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Thank you so much for having me.
Dori Durbin: Oh, thank you. And I just really feel like our listeners who may have never met you before, really need to hear about what is giving you so much passion about working in the field you're working in now.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: I would say it's because I keep going into classrooms, right? And I'm seeing children that are experiencing this, um, this strong connection to devices and so they're coming to school every day and it used to be they didn't wanna come to school because of that separation anxiety from mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, babysitter, maybe their pets, whatever it may be.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And now they're no longer wanting to come to school because of the separation anxiety from digital tech. And so whether it be the device that they woke up to or the device in the car on the way to school, even the TV that they woke up to in the morning. So [00:02:00] it's this really, this struggle in this balance of digital tech addiction.
Dori Durbin: Oh, it seems like there's so much that we don't think about that's part of their everyday lives. , And parents might notice that maybe there is something going on, but they're not like recognizing it as addiction. So how do we know when it's a serious issue for families versus just a casual thing that they see?
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Typically it's, it signs like, um, aggression when the device is taken away, right? And so it's usually, you know, hey, you get five more minutes or something like that. And then that, that, um, anxiety comes out in them and that aggression starts to come out in them. So preschoolers may show excess. Reliance on these screens when they prefer devices over real life interactions and activities.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: So they're choosing the screen time, even in social settings, and then the irritability that comes with it. So when devices are removed, children exhibit [00:03:00] irritability and distress almost. It's this, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to interact right now. So demonstrating the strong emotional attachment.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And difficulty coping with the absence of technology. And then, um, lastly, it's this strong loss of interest. So children may experience a loss of interest in other things like playing with toys or engaging in outdoor play and favoring, um, screens instead of that.
Dori Durbin: Oh, so it's, that's really where we need to look is like if it truly an addiction that you would see an adult you.
Dori Durbin: It's the same thing in kids, just with the emotional reaction to it.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Exactly. And especially when you look at things like YouTube shorts and Facebook reels that are specifically targeting children. And so if you're looking at those in those ten second loops. Those dopamine hits. So what happens is they watch the video and then there's this dopamine hit that happens in their brain, and it's just, [00:04:00] it's just like a high every single time.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And so dopamine hit, dopamine hit, but it's happening every 10 seconds because it's the loops that they're stuck in. And so, um. They just get caught in this overabundance of dopamine hits and they're going for that next high over and over again, and it's causing this digital tech addiction.
Dori Durbin: Oh, it's been a while since my kids were that age.
Dori Durbin: And so for you to say that they're watching Instagram video feeds. That's crazy to me. They're that little and they're, they're targeted already for that.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And, and the makers of these products are specifically targeting toddlers in particular. Right. And so they're looking at exactly what the colors are and what we have to do to keep their attention specifically, and it's made intentionally for children.
Dori Durbin: Wow. It's,
Amy Reyes-Hauff: It's disgusting. It's despicable. I, I can't even believe that we're, we're living in a world [00:05:00] where these design elements are specifically targeting children.
Dori Durbin: So they're not educational videos at all that these kids are watching. It's more entertainment.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: It. It's a combination of both, but that colorful and vibrant visuals, those are the ones that grab this, the attention of these children.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And so these colors are not just bright, but they're strategically chosen to stimulate children's minds. And so although engaging, and it sounds catchy at first, it makes it more immersive. And so the children are just lost, and lost and lost. They get more into it every single time. So kids keep coming back for more and more and more.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And then the, um, interactive elements like tapping and swiping and scrolling offer the sense of control and achievement. And, um, this interactivity is not only fun, but can be quite addictive for young children.
Dori Durbin: Oh my goodness. Okay. So is there a difference between. Let's say they're watching a video or having like [00:06:00] their iPad with, um, something or mom's phone is, are there specific I don't even know how to say this.
Dori Durbin: Like, is there one that's worse than the other as far as the technology goes?
Amy Reyes-Hauff: So typically, I mean really it's going back to the basics of what they should be watching. I just posted a couple days ago on LinkedIn about really those cartoons that were in the early nineties. That we're, that we're really this low stimulation that children were able to watch.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And it's not causing this large scale anxiety because what's happening now in the cartoons is this large scale anxiety because there's just so much stimulation going on. So the simpler, the better.
Dori Durbin: Oh, okay. Okay. I was just thinking if you're a parent who is like, I don't know. The only time we gave our kids something to look at was if we knew there was like a long wait and they had already waited and it was gonna be an even longer wait.
Dori Durbin: But now I'm, I'm guessing it's, that's kind of the go-to is like, pull that out, sit [00:07:00] down, do this. So really like there are differences between like a phone and an iPad. There's really no difference as to which one is. Less dangerous.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: No. Especially because, um, when we're talking about A DHD and focus, so children age five or younger who watch two plus hours of screen time daily are nearly eight times more likely to be diagnosed with a DHD.
Dori Durbin: Wow.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And so, and that means screen time in general. So it doesn't matter if that's a television, an iPad, a phone, whatever it may be. And so this excessive use is associated with this vicious. This circle of social emotional problems including aggression, anxiety, low self-esteem, all these things that go into it, and it's just, it's really scary.
Dori Durbin: So that was kind of the next question for me was when it comes to regulating emotions, kids already struggle with that outside of what we're talking about. Like it's, it's hard for them to identify what they're feeling because they're, it's so new and they don't have years of [00:08:00] experience to sort this out.
Dori Durbin: So is this causing issues with them even being able to identify how they're feeling, much less how they react?
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Correct. Correct. A oral language is on the decline amongst, um, our preschoolers and behaviors is on the incline, right? And so when you're combining all these things together and then, um, instead of really having those, those conversations with them.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: It's, it's causing this recipe for disaster. And so these fast piece programs can overstimulate the child's brain. For every hour of daily tv, even a child's risk of developing attention problems increases by 10%.
Dori Durbin: Wow.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: 10%. And so, every time we're replacing those things for them, that risk just continues to go up higher and higher every time.
Dori Durbin: That's incredible. And you think about when they're really little like that, how many years or how many hours of digital time they could accrue before [00:09:00] they even get into second grade.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Yes.
Dori Durbin: Wow. Okay. So from your experience, is a lot of this just because of technology's advancement, did it start in COVID get worse because of that?
Dori Durbin: Where, how does this all fit? I'm just super curious. What do you see happening?
Amy Reyes-Hauff: I think it's all of it together, right? Like technology will always be on the move and on the rise. And so, and also it's what children see parents doing. And so they're emulating exactly what the parents are doing.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And if a parent's sitting there holding a book, then that's what the child is going to want to do. But if, if the parent is sitting there on the phone scrolling and watching those shorts and everything else, then the child's going to want to do the exact same thing. And so, yes, it's easier to pick up a device and do that.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Long-term effects will not outweigh the benefits of putting that device down. Having a conversation, getting up and going for a walk instead. [00:10:00]
Dori Durbin: Mm-hmm. Now, when I was growing up, if I was bored, I was sent outside. It was, you know, go outside or the other option was get a book. I usually went outside and then came back in and got a book.
Dori Durbin: But I think that is so rare now for people to tell their kids to go out. For me it was like just this like great time of creativity and freedom and exploration. So I'm curious what you have seen change for kids when they learn and they play outside compared to most of the time indoors.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Risky play, especially balance, right? And so we're, if we're talking about vestibular sense and balance, that's directly connected to reading abilities. And so the children that are laying in bed, what I call just bed rotting and just scrolling and scrolling, tend to struggle with their balance and their vestibular sense.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Leading to further problems with their reading, because ideally what it comes down to is they're not able to track words in a book. [00:11:00] Because of that vestibular sense and that balance on the screen or in a book in general. And so we have to get them up, we have to get them moving, they have to get in touch with their bodies.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And so that has to do with that balance sense and everything else that goes with it. And then we're talking about the fine motor skills that go into writing and um, the gross motor skills that go into just movement in general. All those things have to come together. And if we're not doing those things.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And we're just laying in bed, or we're sitting on the couch and we're scrolling. Instead, all of those things get missed, every single one of them.
Dori Durbin: And you said when they tap, they scroll, they swipe, they get a sense of control. So is that part of the issue too, when they, you know, if we were to say, let, let's put your iPad down for a little while, they go outside, they don't have any control.
Dori Durbin: Is that kind of like aroused fear for them?
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Instant gratification, right? Yeah. And so if I click on this and they [00:12:00] bright sounds and, and music plays and everything else, that's instant gratification. So I don't know how to wait anymore because I'm so used to instant gratification. So now when I go to a doctor's appointment and I have to wait for 20 minutes to see the doctor.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Behavior's going to increase because I don't have a sense of how to react when I have to wait for something that's longer than 10 seconds. It's literally reformatting the brain. And so what's happening right now is the white matter, which is sort of the, um, the interstates within the brain.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: White matter is starting to disappear in the children's brains just from over scrolling and too much time on the screens. Imagine what's going to happen once that white matter really starts to disappear, that it's terrifying.
Dori Durbin: My gosh that I had no idea. Honestly, I had no idea. I knew it was bad and I knew it caused sleep [00:13:00] disturbances, but I didn't realize how developmentally, like all the way from the physical sense of development, not just emotional pieces.
Dori Durbin: That's crazy.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And then not to mention the, um, for the first time in the United States, we have more children that are obese than we have that are underweight. Because children are just sitting and, and we're living these, these sedentary lifestyles where they're not getting up and they're moving.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And so we're just connected to our devices. And so what happens eventually to this, this society of people that are just bed rotting or couch rotting and just sitting there, Ugh, very scary.
Dori Durbin: And it's okay in their mind because it's always been that way from the very view.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Exactly. That that's the world that they know, right?
Dori Durbin: Yeah. Yeah. It's not wrong. It was just all they know.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Yep.
Dori Durbin: Wow, you're giving me so much. I'm like, there's so many more questions I wanna ask and I don't know where to start. So with the brain also, you talked about balance being equated to writing. You [00:14:00] talked about emotional pieces. Are there other aspects that, that we don't realize as parents having our kids on devices for just even short amount of time,
Amy Reyes-Hauff: well, we have to remember that, the brain of a child is always developing, right? And so when, when they're on their devices they're not learning impulse control. And so I, I always try and remind people about the impulse control that goes into it. So preschoolers often find it challenging to resist distractions, especially when they're digital.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: So this makes them particularly vulnerable to the allure of screens and devices. So right. What'll happen is I'll be sitting at my desk working, and then my phone will go off or somebody will ping me and so on and so forth. Well, I know that we're having a conversation right now, so I need to wait, but children don't have that impulse control to say, I need to finish this conversation before I look down at my phone.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And so that's playing into it. And then, like I said, we have this large [00:15:00] scale oral language decline that's happening because we're not having conversations anymore. We're having conversations on devices, we're texting, we're, um, doing talk to text, we're doing all of those things. And so, in turn what's happening is, is communication is just not happening anymore.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And so more and more children are starting pre-K. Without those oral language skills and, and they're testing lower and lower on that oral language assessment on kindergarten readiness.
Dori Durbin: Wow. Wow. So if you have a parent who's listening right now, and maybe we do, who is saying to themselves, well, my kid's on there, I don't know, I'll have to pay attention.
Dori Durbin: See how long they're on there. That would be my first like red flag. Like, okay, if you don't know, then that's probably bad, simply because it may be more than you expect. But then the second thing that I think is like if they're realizing that their child is lagging behind or maybe their emotional control isn't there, their impulsivity what are some things that they can do to help?[00:16:00]
Dori Durbin: Reduce or take away the devices on some level so that that's not an issue, especially those parents that have kids in school that use devices at school. Like how does that all work? That
Amy Reyes-Hauff: provides a different layer of difficulty, but I can tell you in my home what we do is, um, when we go out to eat at restaurants, everybody leaves their.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: In the vehicle and we lock them up and we do not take them into restaurants so that we're having those conversations at dinner. We don't allow them at the dinner table. Specifically when we have to wait somewhere. If we go to a doctor's appointment or, um, just any appointment in general, we don't get on our devices because it is so imperative that children are getting bored because that's when that creativity and that imagination really kicks in.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And so we need them to get bored. I need to get bored to come up with good ideas. They need to get bored in order for those things to happen. And then we need to consider setting clear age, appropriate time limits on devices, um, when they're going to [00:17:00] have them, right? Because I know children are going to have them.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And it's almost impossible now to have a world where children are not on devices. So we just need to learn to balance it appropriately. Set those age appropriate time limits. For preschoolers, this balance helps them enjoy that screen time while enjoying other things like outdoor play and social interactions, all those things that go into it.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: So think of these limits as a framework that guides children towards a healthy mix of activities instead. So this is not only, um, supporting their physical health, but also enhance. Their social skills and their emotional wellbeing as they go forward. I did, um, also just recently released a book called Why Did They Do That?
Amy Reyes-Hauff: That is specific to the Preschool Mind and exactly why children are doing specific things, so they're not doing things to be intentionally defiant. It's development and it's finest. So when we bring it back to devices that they're developmentally [00:18:00] going back to what they know. And we need to set those age appropriate limitations, but also we need to model good behavior in front of them and make sure that they're seeing us getting up and going for a walk and interacting in those conversations and making eye contact and not just staring down at our devices the whole time as well.
Dori Durbin: It was so good. So good. And I love the concept of your book too. There's probably all kinds of things in there that parents wonder about their kids that you, you have some answers for, I'm assuming.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Yes. Yes. And that, that is exactly why I wrote the book. It's specifically for parents from that parental lens of why did my child do that?
Amy Reyes-Hauff: I don't understand why they are intentionally being defiant. Yeah, okay. They're not intentionally being defiant. It's developmentally appropriate what's going on. So let me help you understand that. It's not a behavior problem, it's a biological reaction. And so, um, your preschooler's brain is undergoing this, um, neurological revolution basically [00:19:00] inside of them.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: That's what's happening. And so I want parents to understand that, but also have tools inside of their toolkits. That are readily applicable, that you can read this book in a weekend. It's 77 pages or something like that. It says you're going into the grocery store, your toddler's acting up throwing a tantrum.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Here's immediate things that you can do to to, to remediate the situation.
Dori Durbin: Oh, I love it. I, that's awesome. I have a kind of a side question. It might be in your book, I'm not sure. Can you use digital formats as rewards or should you not use them as rewards for your kids?
Amy Reyes-Hauff: You can do it as a reward, um, as long as it's within those.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Those time limits. You know, I, I don't see a problem with, you know, a little bit of TV before bed or something like that. It's when they become completely reliant on things that it really starts to become a problem.
Dori Durbin: That makes sense. Awesome. I know that you've worked with many kids and families at so many [00:20:00] different stages of development.
Dori Durbin: And as for me as a, a kids book illustrator and coach, I believe that messages that kids receive really early on, they stay with them for years. So what do you wish more parents understood or taught their kids earlier
Amy Reyes-Hauff: that um, we need to establish clear screen time limitations.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Um, encourage outdoor play activities and just get back to the simplicity of what that looks like. Promote creative arts and crafts, and then support that emotional expression and communication at the same time. So if you're doing all of those things, what I mean by that. Get up off the couch, disconnect from your device.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Go for a walk, have a conversation about the birds that are up in the sky. Hear, hear the things that are going on around you, and really just reconnect with the natural world that is around you instead.
Dori Durbin: I love it. So yeah. Just getting out there, feeling, feeling a part of [00:21:00] what's going on outside
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And sometimes, and I mean, that's what I have to do, right? Even after a, a long day at work, for me, a, a quick 15 minute walk after work helps me reset and it can be imperative for, for children to learn those habits very young.
Dori Durbin: My dad is older and he was told by his doctor to go out and walk, and I have to preface this because he would, he's active.
Dori Durbin: But the doctor said, get outside. No matter what the temperature was. Yeah. Well that week it was negative 15 or whatever it was. And I'm like, don't go outside. You're gonna be, but he did it anyway and he would come back and say, I feel so good.
Dori Durbin: It took five minutes. He walked five minutes, .
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Fresh air.
Dori Durbin: Made a total difference. And I think that's what you're saying with the kids too, is like getting them to appreciate that time outside and what it does for their bodies and their minds is really important.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Exactly. And teaching them to self-regulate through those sounds of nature.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Right. And so, so it's, I I feel like things are building, they're building [00:22:00] Well, I can go outside and I can hear the birds chirping and I can hear, , the snow crunching underneath of my feet as I'm walking. Really get in tune with the things around you instead, and you can help to self-regulate through those sounds that are around you.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And it can happen in winter. I live in Wyoming where, um, it's winter at least 60% of the year, and we've found magical ways of still managing to get outside.
Dori Durbin: Ooh, you might have to share some of those magical ways to get outside. Doesn't deal with PLA plastic, Ziploc baggies, or bread baggies, does it?
Amy Reyes-Hauff: No, it does not.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: It's just layering up.
Dori Durbin: Layering up. I love it. Yeah. It's amazing what the right gear will do for your kids and for you get it outside.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And even if it's just small increments, right? You don't need to go outside for an hour. You can go outside for five minutes and catch snowflakes on your tongue and run around.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: And even if you know the temperatures are super, super cold. Go outside for five minutes and run and come back inside. That's what I tell parents and teachers and everybody else just go outside [00:23:00] and get some fresh air.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: But you have to get off your device to do that.
Dori Durbin: Got it.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Exactly. Exactly.
Dori Durbin: When I work with people, I try to take big ideas and make them really simple. So you have like all this background, you have all this information, which is amazing by the way. If you were going to take everything you're doing right now and try to give a child one thing to understand, what would that one thing be?
Amy Reyes-Hauff: There's this big world right in front of you, but you have to put down your device and you have to go outside to see it. And I would make sure they understand that there's beauty in the little ladybug that lands on your hand. And there's, there's beauty in all these things. And it doesn't, these dopamine hits can come from the simplicity in life as well as those dopamine hits that are happening on your phone.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: So you put those things down, get up, leave the capacity of, of all these things, but go outside and, and appreciate what's actually around you [00:24:00] instead.
Dori Durbin: That is amazing. As you're describing that too, I think about when my, our kids were little, they used to look under things, look under the leaves or bugs look under the rocks. All those, those things that really just connect you to where you are. Yes. And ignite the curiosity that it sounds like is just disappearing, sadly.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: The curiosity the imagination, the conversations that come from those things, all very beautiful, very simple. But, um, you have to leave the confines of your home and your school and, and the device and everything else like that, and you have to walk out outside to be able to see them.
Dori Durbin: Amy, you have given me so many different reality checks today, and I think the biggest one that keeps resonating with me is just how crucial it is to help our kids' brains develop and how not spending that intentionally, like not really being focused on what's happening in that moment really can make a huge difference.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Well, and how much you can just self-regulate by even plucking the grass beneath you, right? Just sit in the grass and just pluck it beneath you and [00:25:00] listen to the birds, or just watch the clouds above you and just learn to self-regulate that way instead, and, and just recenter yourself and, and just get out there.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: It's a very big world.
Dori Durbin: Oh my goodness. All right, so our listeners are gonna wanna know where can they find more about you? Buy your book and connect with you if they wanna get ahold of you.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: Perfect. You can find me on LinkedIn. I'm happy to connect with anyone, provide coaching, provide support as much as I can.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: So please find Amy Reyes Hoff on LinkedIn, or you can find my book on Amazon. Why did they do that? By Amy Reyes Hoff.
Dori Durbin: Awesome. You have shared so many great insights today, Amy, around technology regulation, the importance of outdoor play. And I just wanna make sure that people really are aware that they can make a step today and make a change for their family.
Dori Durbin: So if there was one thing that they could do to that, you would tell them, okay, this is imperative. Do this right now, what would [00:26:00] that be?
Amy Reyes-Hauff: It would be, when you finish dinner tonight, go for a walk and have a conversation and just call out things as you're walking. Reinforce that oral language, reinforce, um, just to connect with the things that are around you.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: But, after dinner tonight, get up. Go for a walk, but leave your devices at home.
Dori Durbin: Perfect. Amy, thank you so much for your time today for giving us such an immersed wealth of knowledge about how kids really develop and what's going on. I appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Amy Reyes-Hauff: I appreciate you. Thanks for having me today.
Dori Durbin: Absolutely. And for those of you listening, if today's conversation helped you see your child a little bit differently or gave you one small step to slow down, reset and connect, that really, really matters because at the end of the day, we're not looking for perfect parenting.
Dori Durbin: We're just looking for a small moment where we can say, now that that was good parenting. See you [00:27:00] soon.
