Dori Durbin: Welcome to, that's Good Parenting, the podcast that searches for simple steps to reduce your parenting stress. I'm your host, Dorie Durbin. I'm a children's book illustrator coach, and one of the things that I love to do is to help experts, kids size their content, their big ideas into

Dori Durbin: children's books that children can enjoy and understand. Sometimes parenting feels extra stressful because we're trying to help our kids in ways that fit us as parents, but they may not quite fit the way that our kids think. And today's guest is someone who has spent years helping parents understand exactly that.

Dori Durbin: Karen Wagner is a certified human behavior consultant and the founder of teaching our youth. She helps parents and educators understand their children's personalities using the DISC model. Karen, welcome to the show. 

Karen wagnon: Thank you so much. I'm so looking forward to sharing with your audience today.

Dori Durbin: I think they are in for just a great lesson or Or five or 10. And before we really start in, though they may [00:01:00] never have met you before. So can you tell us a little bit about the work that you do with parents and educators? 

Karen wagnon: Well, Dory, thank you so much. So I am a wife and a mom and stepmom to 

Karen wagnon: seven kids. We are a blended family. So those of you who are listening, you know how hard it is to parent your own kids, try parenting somebody else's. That's a whole nother dynamic. And we have 12 grandchildren now. So I'm able to kind of see life through a different lens now through the grandkids because I did a lot of my learning.

Karen wagnon: Parenting, I was raising my own, right. So, I also founded teaching our youth back in 2004. Because once I was introduced to the understanding of personality styles, I was introduced to this actually in a, in a business setting, in a corporate setting because the DISC model is used a lot for leadership, team building, that type of thing.

Karen wagnon: And as I'm sitting there, I'm thinking, this is my kids, this is happening in my home. I had so much frustration with my oldest son, Kyle, and we'll probably talk more about him as we go through this today. And I'm like, how come no one's teaching parents? How to use this model and understanding their [00:02:00] kids, because although everything was going well and I was successful in my career, I was failing miserably as a mom, you know?

Karen wagnon: And I felt that, but I was hiding behind that guilt and shame that everybody else had it together, but me, until I realized, no, none of us know what the heck we're doing. We're all winging it, right? So, when I was introduced to that, I did go and buy all the books. I was so interested in learning.

Karen wagnon: I was fascinated with the predictable patterns in human behavior because it was happening in my home. As I was listening to Dr. Rome speak, I'm like, how does he know this? Because, this is my house. Because there are predictable patterns in human behavior, and once you understand the patterns, you're less offended by the behavior, right?

Karen wagnon: So I read some books. I was fascinated with it. No one had really put this together to an adult child relationship. It was more from a corporate perspective. So that's where I really dug in deeper as to how can we have that adult child relationship. So whether it's parent, child, or educator student, it's the same thing.

Karen wagnon: Each of us are wired from birth with our personalities. It's our DNA, it's part of who we [00:03:00] are. We can't change that. But each of the personalities have internal emotional needs that will drive the external behavior. When those needs are not being met is usually when we experience the destructive behavior that makes us crazy.

Karen wagnon: We tend to wanna address the behavior, but if you don't get to the why that behavior. What is the unmet need that's causing the child to act that way that behavior will continue or escalate. So most of us, whether it's classroom management or even as parents, we put the bandaid on because we just want the behavior to stop rather than understanding why the behavior is happening

Karen wagnon: and so that's where I spent so much time really taking that to the adult child relationship and then providing the strategies to parents of how to parent a child who may be wired differently than you. So many times when we're in conflict with our kids, it's usually because we see life differently, not right or wrong, different.

Dori Durbin: Mm-hmm. 

Karen wagnon: And we try to make our kids think and see life like us. And many times, if they don't, [00:04:00] naturally they start to lose their, confidence, their self-esteem, as if there's something wrong with them. Instead of helping our kids be the best they can be according to their design. And each one of them, my three, his four, are uniquely different blends.

Karen wagnon: But once I understood it was like, aha, now I get it. But the next part was, well, what do I do with what I know? And that's when I created the parenting blueprint, which is the course and the, personality assessments that we do with families, which just brings so much clarity as to the personality dynamics within a family.

Dori Durbin: So the parenting blueprint is something that parents can use to assess. Themselves and their kids. 

Karen wagnon: Yeah, absolutely. So not very many organizations offer personality assessments for children. And so we do have assessments for kids. I'm gonna say like four to 10 is our child's personality assessment.

Karen wagnon: And then from 10 or 11, depending upon their language and what they may understand in the descriptive words, we have a teen assessment. And then we do the [00:05:00] parents, and then We create a family chart with the plotting points of everyone in the family to see, oh, now I see why I get along with you.

Karen wagnon: And now I know why it's so difficult with you, because we see life differently, not right or wrong, just differently. And when we see that, we're less offended by the behavior because it's like, now I get it. That's the first part is awareness, but. What do I do with that when it's not how I'm wired and I don't see life that way.

Karen wagnon: So that's where I started with the aha was great, but I still was tripping over myself. Well, what do I do with this? Because I'm still acting like me, you know? Because all we bring into parenting is how God wired us. How mom parented me equals how you parent. Because no one teaches us how to raise a human.

Karen wagnon: No one teaches us how to raise a human, the most important job we will ever have, the most sacred job we'll ever have as moms. And when we struggle, the guilt and the shame is deep. And I lived that. I mean, there were nights I just went to bed and said, not a good day. You need to do something different.

Karen wagnon: And by [00:06:00] 10 o'clock, I was right where I was again. Why? Because I didn't know how to adapt. I knew there was a dynamic. I knew what I needed to do, but I didn't know specifically what does that look like, because I don't think that way. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah, 

Karen wagnon: so that's where I dug in deeper in creating that course to give parents the, what do I do, the scripts, the steps, the specific strategies.

Karen wagnon: 'cause what works for one kid can totally bomb on another. I experienced that too. You got more than one child. You may know what I'm talking about. This one was like easy breezy, and the other one's gotta fight me every step of the way. What is happening here? It's not right or wrong, it's just different personalities.

Dori Durbin: I think that's amazing. I was sitting here thinking about how many parents. See their kids, like they experience their kids, they fight themselves. It's just like this ongoing lifelong battle that later they don't talk to each other because that relationship is broken, but you took what was going on in your life and you applied it to the point where you even wrote a book about this [00:07:00] that ended up being really interesting.

Dori Durbin: Like the result of that was so fascinating to me. So I definitely want you to share some of this with our listening audience because not that we expect you to write a book, but this is how deeply immersed in this you are. 

Karen wagnon: Yes. 

Dori Durbin: And as far as your own experience. will you share some of that with us?

Karen wagnon: So I can share just how I got involved and that's a short piece unless you want me to go right into my Kyle's story and I could do that too. 

Dori Durbin: I want you to share what you think they need. 

Karen wagnon: I think I shared a little bit about.

Karen wagnon: Understanding personalities and how I got to that. And it was fascinating. So I'm gonna go into a chapter of my book. And I'm just going to, preempt this that I wrote this book and I was so excited about sharing stories of raising my kids, my three in me, a journey in parenting by design, what I learned along the way about myself and my parenting style and how it wasn't necessarily conducive to all my kids.

Karen wagnon: Actually, I don't think it was good for any of them. I had a lot of growing to do, but I just didn't know until I was introduced to the personalities. And [00:08:00] Kyle was probably my most difficult connect, always. Kyle's personality is very left brain. He's very logic, he's very analytical. His way is the right way.

Karen wagnon: He was uncoachable. He didn't follow directions. So I don't know of any parents out there. I will pray for you because it is frustrating. But even though I could understand the way he saw life. Because he was so different than me. It was very difficult for me to understand and adapt and not be offended.

Karen wagnon: So I wrote this book with all these wonderful stories about what I learned about adapting my personality to my kids' personalities through various things that all parents go through, school chores, you know, whatever it was, there were some challenges that I really needed to get them through without having the conflict.

Karen wagnon: But this last one, as I was getting ready to publish the book, Kyle and I hadn't talked in about a year okay? 

Dori Durbin: A long time. 

Karen wagnon: And I'm ready to publish this book, and I am feeling like the devil was all over me. You know what I mean? Like, who do you think you are? you're getting ready to publish this book and help people and you haven't talked to your son in a year.

Karen wagnon: It was [00:09:00] so crushing to me. And a pastor friend of mine, who's very close to my husband and I just gave me some wisdom and he said, so how many parents have that child. How many parents have that child that they can't connect with and their heart is breaking because they can't connect.

Karen wagnon: You need to tell that story. So it ended up being the last chapter and I wrote this chapter, Tory, three times. The first time was a therapy session. 'cause I just threw up all over the book, you know what I mean? Of all the things he did and how mad he made me. And then my daughter read the draft and she said, well you might wanna sanitize that a little bit, mom.

Karen wagnon: You put on a lot of stuff. But when I got back to really understanding what our differences were. I had to come back to, there's nothing wrong with him and nothing wrong with me we're different. So let me share with you. My relationship with Kyle had been the most challenging. The complexity of his cautious, dominant personality kept me trying to adapt in different ways to connect with him and build a relationship in which we could communicate better.

Karen wagnon: His strong will independence and need to do [00:10:00] things his way in his time made it extremely difficult for me to parent or even coach him most of the time starting in high school. It seemed the more I asked him about his day or how things were going, the more he perceived this as interrogation. That was not my intention but certainly his perception.

Karen wagnon: I respected his needs for privacy as his cautious personality style. He was very guarded with his feelings and emotions. I was also aware of his need for control in his life as part of his dominant style and my outgoing people oriented relational side of my personality, wanted to engage with him to know more about him and his life.

Karen wagnon: Any discussions around education, career development, or plans for the future ended in an argument. He would become defensive toward any suggestions or recommendations. This was really hard for me. I didn't want to fight. Occasionally there would be glimpses that we could have a conversation over lunch and give me hope that maybe someday we could have an open communication and a positive relationship.

Karen wagnon: I continue to remind myself [00:11:00] of his need for privacy and control, but I miss being able to discuss his struggles, victories, and celebrate life with him. Our opposite personalities were clear in our differences and our needs and our communication style. And Dorie, what I had to learn was good enough, was going to be good enough.

Karen wagnon: It would never be what I desired. And I think that's where my frustration came because my relationships with my other kids, 'cause they were different personalities were open. We spent time together just hanging out, watching tv, shooting basketball in the driveway, going skiing, like we just connected.

Karen wagnon: And Kyle was different, maybe even socially awkward because he's so left, left brained, you know? 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Karen wagnon: And I had to say, I'm trying to make him into something he's not capable of being. And so for a year, over a year, and I shared with you a little bit about how that disconnect happened because it was time to sell our marital home and move with where Mark was.

Karen wagnon: 'cause he had been relocated my husband, [00:12:00] and he was feeling as though I was kicking him out of the house. And that was a perception that I was kicking him out because for two and a half years I had not been living with my husband. And it was time my daughter had graduated college. She was a commuter kid.

Karen wagnon: So anyway it was time to go. But his perception was, you're kicking me out. He was 26. It was time to go anyway, but that was the perception. And he was digging in and I finally said, I need to get the house ready to show. And any of you who've got teenage boys, some of the rooms are a dumpster fire.

Karen wagnon: Okay? And I cannot show this house with this room looking like a dumpster fire. So either you clean it or I'll clean it. I gave him a choice, either you clean it or I'll clean it. But if I clean it, then you need to go. 'cause I can't get it messy again. Like, you need to find a friend, maybe move in with your dad.

Karen wagnon: You gotta figure it out because you go now, you go later, you're gonna have to go. And that's what started that. I was kicking him out and then he didn't talk to me anymore. 

Dori Durbin: And you just felt crushed. 

Karen wagnon: I was crushed. And I, [00:13:00] you know, for the first three months he was not responding to a text, the phone call, nothing.

Karen wagnon: And I was dying inside. But I knew it needed to let that settle. As I talked to you before we got on, he calls me multiple times a week. And even if it's just on the car, ride home from work, it's 15, 20 minutes just to catch up on the day what's going on. And I never thought I'd have that, but this is what it was.

Karen wagnon: I had to change my expectation of what that relationship was going to look like. See, I wanted him to meet my need of connection, warm hugs, spending time, chips and salsa, where he's a man of little words. He gets to the point, we move on to the next thing. Like he does not sit down and have conversation.

Karen wagnon: You only spend so much time with Kyle before he's done. He only has so many words in a day. So I know that there are parents out there that may feel as though they have a child that. Is a disconnect. I'm connected with these kids, but I am feeling disconnected from this. Understand the why. What is it in their personality?

Karen wagnon: Because the more I became [00:14:00] critical of trying to get him to have the same relationship I had with Eric, all I was making him feel as though I'm not good enough the way I am. You want me to be like him? Why? Why is me not enough? And that was not my intention, but I wanted that closeness because it was easy with Eric.

Karen wagnon: Some of us got kids, it's an easy connect. And then we have others were, it's more of a difficult connect. And I had to change my expectation of what this relationship was going to look like if I was going to have one at all. And you know what? When I met his need for independence and privacy, he started to meet my need for relationship.

Karen wagnon:

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Karen wagnon: To get to that point, I just needed to give him space. Because I didn't burn that bridge when it was hard and gave him that space he started coming back around and talking about this. I wanna get a house. Do you wanna look at houses with me?

Dori Durbin: Whoa, 

Karen wagnon: I don't understand these mortgage papers. Can you explain them to me? 

Dori Durbin: That's [00:15:00] so interesting. Do you feel like he. Early on understood what his personality traits were like and had a sense of why he didn't quote unquote fit in with everybody else in your family.

Karen wagnon: Because this is what I do, right? So when I started doing this in 2004, you know, my kids were elementary, middle school, you know, getting into high school. So yes, I did personality assessments on all my kids. I understood them. They were able to read their, so he knew he was different.

Karen wagnon: He was different, you know, in his personality. He's very logic based. He's black and white. My way is the right way. And lemme tell you all the reasons why my way is the white way. No, you're not right. I'm right. You know? And so I just had to look and there were things, Dory, he wasn't right.

Karen wagnon: And he, he had to experience consequences. But I couldn't go back to, I told you so, I had to go back to parents. I'm sorry you went through that. What do you think you could do differently next time? 

Dori Durbin: Hmm. 

Karen wagnon: I'd always ask my kids, 'cause I would collaborate on problem [00:16:00] solving with them. When I ask Kyle, do you want a couple of suggestions that might help you out next time he'd say, no. And then I'd go to the next step of that strategy and say, I'm sure you'll figure it out. Let me know how it goes.

Karen wagnon: But let me tell you what happened. An hour later, he'd come back and say, what you got? 'cause he doesn't wanna be told what to do. It's gotta be on his terms. And now I just laugh about it because I know what's going to happen. He doesn't like directives.

Karen wagnon: It has to be his idea. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Karen wagnon: Now, my other kids who were a little bit more reserved and introverted, they were coachable. I could guide them, I could support them, but they were also indecisive. 

Karen wagnon: Insecure, unsure about themselves. Not risk takers. Each child's going to bring a different set of dynamics.

Karen wagnon: But once I understood, then I knew how I could be the mom they needed me to be, to help them be the best they can be according to their design. 

Dori Durbin: So your kids found out pretty early in life [00:17:00] what personality type they were? 

Karen wagnon: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Did you feel like they used that in their everyday besides the family itself?

Karen wagnon: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Did you feel like they used that in their school, in their relationships, like, 

Karen wagnon: Well, there were some challenges in school, especially for my insecure kids who wouldn't raise their hand or ask a question when they didn't understand. So I really had to build their confidence and even hold them accountable to like getting help and you know, like, I'm not gonna do it for you, because it was awkward for some real shy kids to speak up,

Karen wagnon: so that was painful for me. Why is it so difficult? Because they were. They didn't want anyone to know. They didn't know something. So there were those dynamics, but even growing up and getting beyond school, finding careers that are going to be a fit for their strengths.

Karen wagnon: See, my daughter worked in retail. Anna is more of that supportive, cautious people, please. They're very much an introverted, she wants to serve everybody. She worked in retail when she was at college, and she was very good. She's very conscientious. She was a good employee, but she had to talk to people all day.

Karen wagnon: When she got home, she was done. She went, she got the cat and [00:18:00] went to bed. You know what I mean? Like she needed a nap. So that might not be the best career choice, if that's your wiring to come home exhausted every day. So this led into the next phase of what I want parents to understand, help your child understand their personality, and then.

Karen wagnon: Find their passion and they can find a purpose in that industry. If there's something that they're jazzed up about, you can find a position with your strengths. But so many parents wanna guide their kids to be what they think they should be because it makes us look better.

Karen wagnon: We gotta get off of that stuff, right? Instead of helping guide them for their fit. Not so we can bragadocious about my kids who have done all these wonderful things. Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: I'm sure there's people listening who are saying, oh, I don't do that. My kids both grew up in the sports world and you know, the sports world, there's all kinds of expectations.

Dori Durbin: And when you start to see your kids performing well and you start to see some of the oh, they, they're really good at that. They could be even better at [00:19:00] school. Same thing, sports, same thing. But I feel like there's so much more, visible pushing mm-hmm. That happens in the sports world. That really turns the kids off too.

Dori Durbin: Yes. And it might not be who they see themselves as, but we see them in this light that we think they're gonna develop into. 

Karen wagnon: Right. 

Karen wagnon: And then sometimes parents will drive that so hard that it's not fun for the kids anymore and they want out. And parents don't know how to handle that because we wrapped up so much of our life in that.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Karen wagnon: And they're like, I'm done. I'm burned out. I don't wanna do this anymore. And that can be real hard for parents, especially in the sports world when they see the kids' interest is not where it was 

Dori Durbin: yeah. 

Karen wagnon: Or what we think it should be. And giving them the space to find other interest.

Karen wagnon: And, some kids and depending upon the personality, can only handle so much between academics and relationships and extracurricular activities. Like they just, they get overwhelmed with so many things. And that was my daughter, she couldn't say no to anybody. So she was a dancer and a performer.

Karen wagnon: She would do this recital and then she's [00:20:00] dancing in two different programs for two different organizations. And then she has a job, and then someone can't make a shift. So she's picking up their shift and the girl, like, I don't even know when she slept after a while because she couldn't say no.

Karen wagnon: And now she's burned out. And we had to talk about that, you know, 'cause she doesn't wanna disappoint anybody or let them down, but she's exhausted. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Karen wagnon: So I had to help her with boundaries and saying, no, and it's okay that you can't please everybody and do everything for everybody. You know, you need to protect yourself

Karen wagnon: you still have seven shifts this week on top of everything, you know? So why is it so hard to say no? And how can we get out of that? Like, I needed to give her the words, like when somebody asked her to do something, she needed to say, instead of, yes, let me check my schedule.

Karen wagnon: Like, I needed to give her the words to delay that because she would say, okay, and then try to figure it out and then realize she can't figure it out. But she won't tell them She can't figure it out because she told them yes already. You know what I mean? 

Dori Durbin: Started. 

Karen wagnon: So these are the things that with different personalities, we will see.

Karen wagnon: And it was hard for me because I knew that she was overwhelmed and [00:21:00] I can't do it for her. When we get to a certain point in our parenting, we become coaches and mentors to our kids. We gotta guide them. We can't be telling them because too many parents are over accommodating for their kids, and we do not have resilient children anymore.

Karen wagnon: They quit a lot quicker. They want accommodations for everything. And that was not, back in the day, that's not what we did. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Karen wagnon: School was not optional in my house. Everybody went to school. Was there an occasional mental health day Now and again. Absolutely. 

Karen wagnon: if they were doing all right in school, but just overwhelmed and needed a day to just rest and we did it, but we were back at it like I was willing to work with them. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Karen wagnon: This is why I tell parents, your values don't change. Your approach in instilling those values may be different.

Karen wagnon: Same expectation, different approach. It's not a one size fits all with your kids. It's not. 

Dori Durbin: I feel like the ages too, it changes a [00:22:00] little bit too. But you're right, like that personality is that personality. I remember thinking we could change, like help them, you know, I can help you become more outgoing or I can help you be more, less outgoing or whatever.

Dori Durbin: Yes. And I fought with that. Like, you know, how do I as, what am I doing as wrong as a mom? First of all, what are my mistakes that I made and why is this happening to them? Right. And then really, like, they were doing fine. It was all my perception of what I thought. Yes. 

Karen wagnon: many times I realized, when you look at the DISC model, I'm more of the dominant and inspiring.

Karen wagnon: So I have a very fast paced agenda in my life and a number of my kids were more reserved and introverted. So I was the one causing that stress and anxiety 'cause I was pushing them to try and be at my pace instead of respecting their pace and their timing. So parents, when we talk about mental health and the things that happen, I had to look and say, you may be causing some of this.

Karen wagnon: I was pushing those expectations. Here's an [00:23:00] example. Anna danced from, she was three. She danced through college. She danced with the Detroit Pistons for three years. I mean, so she had a good long career as a dancer, but when she was in school, she was dancing. And then we had Girl Scouts.

Karen wagnon: Well, I was in Girl Scouts, right? She starting elementary school. We had Girl Scouts. I was a girl scout until I was in middle school, right? Like I went pretty far with Girl Scouts. So I want her in Girl Scouts. The first year she took Girl Scouts was kind of okay. She went kind of like some of the stuff until we went to camp and she was not going to pee in that latrine.

Karen wagnon: And then she's trying to pee behind a tree and her socks came home wet. And we went through all the clothes and it was just, and so I was just like, oh, it's just a camp thing. You'll get used to it. So the next year we go to sign her up for Girl Scouts and she says, I don't wanna do Girl Scouts.

Karen wagnon: I just wanna dance. And I'm like, well, it doesn't affect your schedule. Like you can still dance and do girl Scouts. And she says, I don't wanna do Girl Scouts. I just wanna dance. She probably said that to me a few times and I'm like, are you even hearing what she's saying? She doesn't wanna do Girl Scouts, but I wanted her to do Girl Scouts because I had so many wonderful experiences.

Karen wagnon: [00:24:00] She can't handle a schedule that's that tight. It was bad enough that she was dancing five nights a week. And trying to do homework mm-hmm. I had to hear what she was telling me. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Karen wagnon: She didn't wanna do Girl Scouts, she just wanted to dance more because that was her passion.

Karen wagnon: Look, I never danced. I still can't dance. I don't know where that gift came from to be honest with you. But all I could do was learn how I could be a better mom to support her with her passion. And I did. That's what I did. 

Dori Durbin: That's awesome. Well, and you still have that connection now too.

Dori Durbin: You didn't ruin that relationship. You came to where she was at, encouraged her where she was and didn't, 

Karen wagnon: but I had to catch myself, doing that like, I was pushing because I look with my personality. and because she says yes, I was proud of her for, she was telling me no in her own way, I don't wanna do Girl Scouts.

Karen wagnon: Multiple times. And I kept saying, well, we could still work it out and you can still do. And she's just like, and I'm like, you're not even hearing what she's saying, Karen. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. 

Karen wagnon: She's saying she just wants to dance, so let's just do [00:25:00] another dance class. She can try another genre. That's her passion.

Karen wagnon: Let's do that. It's not the end of the world. See parents, we think it's the end of the world. She was starting to tell me what she wanted. I needed to listen. I needed to be curious. I ask questions and listen. Ask questions and listen some more because I already have an opinion.

Karen wagnon: It's in my head and I wanna tell you, but they don't wanna hear what we have to say. When I ask questions and I listen, I better understand where they're coming from instead of shutting them down so when we get to the middle school and high school years, we need more communication and collaboration and less directing and correcting.

Dori Durbin: That's super powerful. If we have listeners who are listening and they're like, my kid and I are complete opposites, what do I do? Really what they need to do is start asking questions. 

Karen wagnon: First of all, I wanna say stop taking the behavior personally.

Dori Durbin: Okay. 

Karen wagnon: I thought Kyle was just being a jerk. He was just mean to me. His tone was of disdain. [00:26:00] But he's a very direct communicator. He's just not emotional. He's just like blunt and to the point. And I'm just like, my gosh, that was meanbut he talks to everybody that way, not just me.

Karen wagnon: But, so I had to stop taking it personally because I'm thinking they're disrespecting me. He's ignoring me. He's pushing my buttons. That's how I'm perceiving the behavior. Instead of realizing what he needs, the emotional need behind that. The emotional need behind his behavior was that he wanted choices and control to do things his way.

Karen wagnon: Now, as a dominant mom, that's where we overlap. That's not a good place to overlap because we both wanna be in charge. 

Dori Durbin: Right. 

Karen wagnon: And I keep saying I'm the mom. Wasn't working. So I had to learn to give him choices within my boundaries so we could level that out. Because I'd say something and he'd be the anti anything.

Karen wagnon: I'd say, this guy was blue. And he's like, it's green. Whatcha talking about? It's green? And I just fight to fight. You're wearing me out. But I had to give choices. So do you wanna get this homework done when you get home and then you're good for the night? Or do you [00:27:00] wanna do an hour on the game system and do it after dinner?

Karen wagnon: You choose, you decide. Of course he defaulted to after dinner, but we worked it out. And I wasn't saying after dinner, now you need to do your homework. Because what he heard was, let's fight. I didn't say let's fight. but if I gave him a choice within his boundaries, he felt a level of control.

Karen wagnon: They want that autonomy. To be able to do that and that that's a difficult personality to be with having an outgoing personality and having really reserved kids like the wallflower kids, you know what I mean? Like it's just like, don't you do this? Why don't you do that? And you're pushing them into situations that are causing them anxiety because they just don't, Anna was like in a blanket, she's good, or one or two close friends.

Karen wagnon: Now we can just like get a bottle of wine and watch tv. And her and I, I mean, she's in her thirties now, but I mean, this is good for us now. We don't have to go to the bar it's not her style. That's not who she is. But so many times we want our kids to have our life or resemble part of our life because we wanna live our life again through them instead of recognizing who they are and what they need.[00:28:00]

Karen wagnon: Right. So I had to adapt my pace to Anna's pace. I had to adapt my expectation of a relationship with Kyle because it wasn't going to be the same. And while we're talking about the three kids, Eric was my easy breezy. Like he was just the fun, loving, easy kid. He cracked me up all the time, but he couldn't find anything ever.

Karen wagnon: Like he didn't know where he left stuff. He couldn't find anything. But he was so charming. I mean, he cracked me up, but I still needed to discipline this kid. Right. You know what I mean? And when I say discipline parents, this isn't punishment. Discipline is a discipline. Self-discipline.

Karen wagnon: I needed to teach my kids to be self-discipline. I needed to teach Eric to be organized and structured because it wasn't natural. Rather than say, why can't you be like your brother? Because Kyle was on top of it. He can't find anything. He has one cleat.

Karen wagnon: Can't find the other one. Did the homework, don't know where he put it. This is how I lived with him. And so I had to set up systems for him. All the equipment in the bag, all the homework in the homework folder. Like I couldn't, I had to help him, not be critical of [00:29:00] him, but set up systems to help him become successful, right?

Karen wagnon: So be curious, how can I support them? And teach discipline was teaching the discipline. You know, who else needed to be disciplined? This girl right here, I had to not fly off the handle I needed to, you know, just because it came in my head, doesn't need mean it needed to come outta my mouth. What's really going on here?

Karen wagnon: And what is my best approach? So I could do what? Reduce the conflict, increase the productivity, and maintain that relationship which is the most important thing here. 

Dori Durbin: We are getting close to the end here, Karen.

Dori Durbin: If listeners wanna learn more about working with you and what you do or how to get ahold of you, could you give them some of that information? 

Karen wagnon: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you, my, my email address is karen@teachingouryouth.com, but you can also go to my website, which is teaching our youth.com and learn more about, the parenting blueprint.

Karen wagnon: And of course we do workshops for schools as well. Because this is my goal and I'm gonna just throw this in here. I feel like I'm doing a little ad. Nothing's gonna change in school until we help parents. [00:30:00] And right now behavior in school is really kind of off the charts, and so everyone wants to point fingers, but I also say we need to help parents first.

Karen wagnon: Okay. So my goal is to bridge that gap between parents and school where we're all learning the same language of understanding personality. So we can bring consistency to our kids that what we do at home is the same thing we're doing at school, and that child can thrive in an environment where we've got boundaries and consistency.

Karen wagnon: And so parents, if you are struggling, my heart goes out to you because I did too. I hid behind the guilt and the shame until I started talking about it and then realizing that none of us know what the heck we're doing. Okay, well maybe some of you do. 

Karen wagnon: I thought I did. I was successful everywhere else except this place, which was the most important thing. And it was hard on me. The guilt and the shame was hard and I kept saying I would do better, but I didn't know what to do better because I kept doing the same thing. This is going to change the way you see yourself in your parenting style.

Karen wagnon: Why you parent the way you parent. You'll see your child through a different [00:31:00] lens and you'll have that aha moment. Just like every family I work with, there's nothing wrong with me, nothing wrong with my child. We just have some differences. 

Dori Durbin: Mm-hmm. 

Karen wagnon: And we're less offended by the behavior. We can adapt our interactions to meet those emotional needs where that child feels seen, heard, and understood.

Karen wagnon: And when they do, we can influence and guide them for the rest of our lives. If not, and they do not feel as though they're good enough or they measure up, they will separate and start talking to someone else. And we will have broken that connection. And that's the last thing any of us want.

Karen wagnon: This is legacy parenting. 

Dori Durbin: So if you were to give a parent one step that they could take after this podcast is over and you can give me more than one for sure. 

Karen wagnon: Oh, I know. I had a couple notes here before. 

Dori Durbin: Give us more. I'll the parent. Go get, give us more than one. What can we do to make this easier on everybody?

Dori Durbin: What should I be doing right now? 

Karen wagnon: Well, the first thing I would say is to learn to work with your child's personality and not against it. As you were saying, I can't change how God wired them. This [00:32:00] is who they are. It's part of their DNA. I need to understand it so I can work better with it.

Karen wagnon: So that's the first thing we need to do, is be able to work with that child's personality. Because when we're working against it, it's friction every step of the way. Nobody wants to be in a home that way. Another thing I wanna share with parents is we need to lower our expectation to be perfect.

Karen wagnon: I know we want it to be perfect. I wanted my kids to have a happy home and all those things, and I felt very guilty if I didn't feel that I was providing that environment. But we have that pressure to do everything right, and if something goes wrong, it's okay to tell your kids you made a mistake and apologize and go back and wanna work it out.

Karen wagnon: I had to do that because I'm real quick with the mouth, you know what I mean? And then I would blow up and then I'd be like, gosh, I'm really sorry. I had to get myself under control. I had to regulate me before I went in. This was a process for me to get me disciplined.

Karen wagnon: To not lose it on my kids, alright? To not take it personally. And have the humility to be able to do that. Like I'm learning as I go and I wanna be a better mom. So [00:33:00] when we have situations like this and we both kind of are off, then let's just sit down and talk about it.

Karen wagnon: I asked my kids. How can I be a better mom for you? Especially when I felt that, you know, the first thing they said to me, all three of them stop yelling.

Karen wagnon: So then I said to them like, you're right. I do yell a lot and I don't wanna be a yeller, but let me ask you a question. Why do you think I yell all? ' cause we don't do what you ask when you ask. And I'm like, yeah, I don't like repeating myself. I don't like doing that. So how can we work this out now we're working together.

Karen wagnon: Instead of me just telling them what I want them to do, how can we work this out? Well, you'll want something done and you want us to do it right away. I do. It's my personality. Well, I might be in the middle of something and then you're writing me, because I didn't drop what I was doing and go do what you asked.

Karen wagnon: And I'm like, well, then maybe you could say, when I finish this, I'll unload the dishwasher. Or when I did it, do this, I folded laundry. Like, I'm willing to [00:34:00] work with you, but you ignore me and nothing gets done. So if you communicate that part to me, I'm willing to work with you as long as it's getting done.

Karen wagnon: I have some grace in here and some wiggle room. So there's some of the things I really want to do and focus on the relationship first. I know we wanna raise our kids to be responsible, productive young adults. They all pop at different times. Dorian, I say it's like the popcorn, you know what I mean?

Karen wagnon: They're row in there and they're popping, popping and some pop out. You know what I mean? And some are still popping and popping and popping, but eventually they all. And so we may have expectations. I did. I had expectations of where I thought my kids should be at their milestones in life. And when they didn't, I was riding them to get there.

Karen wagnon: Instead of saying, they're still growing, their brain's still developing, they're still discovering who they are. And rather than be critical of who they're not, can I just celebrate who they are at this point in life? Let's just do that. I just want parents to understand that behavior is communication.

Karen wagnon: And when we see disruptive behavior, it's not that our kids are doing something [00:35:00] against us, it's because there's an unmet need. Okay? Unmet need. We go through that with the parenting blueprint. You'll understand the descriptive, you'll understand the needs, you'll understand specifically how to meet those needs and that personality, and that's what I needed to learn.

Karen wagnon: But that is communications. So when we see defiance, it's usually an unmet need for choice and control. 

Karen wagnon: Now, some parents, where you're gonna tell your kids and you're gonna be that strict and they don't get a voice, you're probably gonna get some pushback. When you start working with them, just like that example I shared with you, they feel as though they're part of the solution and they're not just the problem.

Dori Durbin: Oh, awesome. 

Karen wagnon: Kids don't need perfect parents. They just need parents who are curious enough to understand them and love them for who they are. 

Dori Durbin: You know, parenting sounds so much simpler when you don't try to control them. It really does. 

Karen wagnon: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: But it's, yeah, it's a natural, 

Karen wagnon: but when you don't understand why they're doing it, you're trying to correct a behavior.

Karen wagnon: Right. When Kyle was a toddler, I asked him not to do something. He looked right at me and did [00:36:00] it. 

Dori Durbin: Oh, they set you up really well, huh? 

Karen wagnon: I was like, what is happening here? 

Dori Durbin: Oh 

Karen wagnon: no. Like I just eye contact. So. That was at like toddlerhood, so I knew I was in for some stuff.

Dori Durbin: Oh my goodness. Well, I think you are bringing up some stuff that I know that parents really can relate with and have a real sense internally of exactly what you're talking about. And first of all, let me just thank you for your insight, for your stories, for your honesty of, you know, parenting and showing us examples of how it's not perfect, but also how it can be so much more and so much better.

Dori Durbin: So thank you so much for that, Karen. I really appreciate it. 

Karen wagnon: Thank you, Dory. 

Dori Durbin: And one last thing to our listeners. You know, sometimes the biggest parenting breakthrough isn't from actually trying to do things harder, but it's from stepping back and trying to understand our kids better. Because as parents, we all want to end the day being able to say just one phrase now that, that was good [00:37:00] parenting.

Karen wagnon: Yes. Perfect. 

Dori Durbin: Thank you so much, Karen. 

Karen wagnon: Thank you, Dory.