[00:00:00] JP Marsh: And nobody's doing anything to clear it out, but you're only focusing on the negative things because you're still stuck in this place where you see them so negatively that even if the things that they're doing well, you only focus on the negative, but you can reframe it and see them as a co parent, 

[00:00:19] Dori Durbin: on our show today, we have JP Marsh. He's a co parenting coach, and I think he's got a story that a lot of you really need to hear. So welcome JP. 

[00:00:29] JP Marsh: Hi, thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here. 

[00:00:32] Dori Durbin: I am really curious because we talk a lot about the mistakes that we make as parents. That's, that's good parenting is all about is like the mistakes and the overcoming.

[00:00:42] Dori Durbin: And when it comes to divorce, that's really emotionally charged and competitive sometimes. It's just a hard situation to be in as a parent and still feel like you're parenting well. So for people who maybe don't really know about it could you explain to our listeners a little bit about what co op [00:01:00] parenting really looks like ? 

[00:01:01] JP Marsh: So, co parenting is not limited to being in separate homes. You're essentially co parenting, even if you're still married and you're still together in all these things. And it's the compromise, the give and take of putting kids first, raising them in certain ways.

[00:01:20] JP Marsh: I, in my situation, lucked out. Whereas my daughter's mother and I were raised in the same small town with the same sort of backgrounds, values, these things, those things, and the others. So we lucked out because we didn't, I didn't have these difficult conversations or we didn't have these difficult conversations that many people don't until it's too late.

[00:01:49] JP Marsh: You know what I mean? Like when you're going into a relationship and you think that it's going to be a lifetime partner and these things and those things, you need to talk about five year plans, finances. [00:02:00] Discipline, the way that you're planning on raising children, the values that your family as a unit is going to have, and, a lot of people don't discuss these things prior to actually moving in together, joining finances, buying property or assets together, having children, getting married, credit scores, and all of these things, Will have massive effects on the type of relationship, the type of family unit and the type of life you're going to have.

[00:02:33] JP Marsh: So I got fairly lucky that we are in line with what's allowed. What's not allowed to discipline. You know what I mean? We have the same sort of viewpoints on electronics, TV time, phones, standards for grades, standards for treating people, etiquette, yada, yada. But when you run into situations where.

[00:02:58] JP Marsh: One person is [00:03:00] You know, more conservative as far as discipline, one person is more liberal as far as discipline, you're going to clash and then it's going to cause problems. And even if the relationship deteriorates and you get divorced or you break up, you still are trying to raise a child. But you don't have an identity as a unit together to bounce off each other.

[00:03:28] JP Marsh: And then that's where you start to see, in my opinion, some really negative effects on the type of children that you're raising and the type of adults that they're going to become. Because if you get divorced, they get to be 14, 15 years old. Dad's house has rural structure chores. This is how it is.

[00:03:50] JP Marsh: Mom's gone all weekend at this boyfriend, that boyfriend's house, or whatever the case may be. I have free reign of the house can do whatever I want. Some goes, please have no curfew. Don't have [00:04:00] to do chores. You can have boys over yada, yada. Obviously they're going to choose one over the other, to each of their own, raise your kid, how you want, but

[00:04:10] JP Marsh: statistically that is not going to raise it often functioning adult, and then, you re you run into other sort of. Things that can also add into that or the side deals of it, you got your enabling or the shame because, they, you think they blame themselves for the split up.

[00:04:32] JP Marsh: The 1 parent lets them just run wild, or they become the friend instead of the kids, or they become the son husband type that never leaves home because he doesn't want to be mom alone. You know what I mean? And there's. But co parenting is essentially two people trying to be on the same page or raise, raise the child right in a [00:05:00] social standard environment or worldview, especially in the West that you're not allowed to get along, you're not allowed to communicate efficiently, you're not allowed to be in a civil space.

[00:05:11] JP Marsh: You know what I mean? And. And if somebody else comes into the picture, a step parent or something like that, you instantly are supposed to hate them. And it's supposed to be high conflict all the time. And, it's not really the case. It's a lot more peaceful when you can just all get along and put the kids first and backseat all of your baggage and trauma from the relationship to start moving forward.

[00:05:37] Dori Durbin: So I was actually going to ask you what some of the pitfalls of co parenting are, and I was thinking more in terms of divorce, but now that you've opened that door to, that way it does seem like disagreements in child rearing, in money spending in curfews, and who your child hangs out with, those are all parenting issues that every parent has to deal with.

[00:05:59] Dori Durbin: [00:06:00] First get married and you first have your child. That's the last thing on your mind is you got to come to this agreement, but it's huge. It is huge. So how do you help people when they realize? That there's such a discrepancy in, let's say, like you were describing the rules of the house, how do you help people through that? 

[00:06:19] JP Marsh: It's, it, every situation in person are a little bit different to start, you've got to, you got to get out of your own way and stop. Doing things in spite of the other parent from whatever your baggage from the relationship is, right? And can't move forward and deal with the trauma, the baggage, and all of the emotional 

[00:06:41] JP Marsh: pitfalls and triggers and whatnot from the relationship, then you're not going to be able to move forward and bounce off of each other and find the happy middle to where you're doing well as parents, but also respect, respecting and communicating and the other people's [00:07:00] boundaries .

[00:07:00] JP Marsh: So that's the first big kind of thing, because. If you're still really mad at the other parents, the one side doesn't like it because the other side brought it up or it's their idea, or they put it or trying to put this in emotion, right?

[00:07:13] JP Marsh: And so if you're still looking through the lens of extreme anger or shame or animosity towards the other parents, even knowing that they're coming to you very clear headed, not argumentative. To have an open conversation about bedtime, curfew, I have a daughter, so boys or friends or not staying, not being allowed to stay at this friend's house because the parents have a long history of drugs and alcohol abuse or, I live in a small town.

[00:07:42] JP Marsh: So it's, you know what the other parents are like, but if you're still holding on to a bunch of anger I'm not going to listen to you. You know what I mean? If you're instantly defensive, no matter what's being brought up or the intentions of what's being brought up, you're going to do the opposite [00:08:00] because you're defensive and they brought it up.

[00:08:01] JP Marsh: You know what I mean? Even knowing that everybody knows that the people are still maybe they have an older child that got caught with drugs two weeks ago. And you're like I don't want, I don't want them staying over there. They're 13 years old. This is 18 year old, 17 year old, older sibling just got caught with drugs or what underage drinking had a party at that house or whatever.

[00:08:21] JP Marsh: I don't want to stand over there. We need to figure this out. And then they're like, no, you brought it up. I don't like you. You know what I mean? You hurt my feelings when we were together. I'm not going to listen. And then I'm going to let them stay over there behind your back and just not tell you because it's none of your business because it's on my parenting time.

[00:08:39] JP Marsh: I'm the parent when it's my parenting time. And then you make it all about you, but you're not realizing that you're letting your children get into some situations where you should be guiding them as a parent, and so you making it about you could actually could have really long term yeah. harmful effects [00:09:00] on children. 

[00:09:01] Dori Durbin: Yeah, that's interesting because what you said in the beginning, getting out of your own way putting the kids first is the primary goal.

[00:09:07] Dori Durbin: And I think that's whether you're in a marriage relationship or not, but I think it, in my opinion, it gets even more complicated because you have two different households when you're in a divorce situation. And especially if you have a your spouse, your ex gets remarried, or whatever, you've got multiple family members all of a sudden that's really complicated.

[00:09:27] Dori Durbin: The other thing I wondered, too, was like, how do the kids perceive, have a sense of family when you are co parenting versus when you're not co parenting? Because I think that's important to keep in mind, too. 

[00:09:39] JP Marsh: My daughter's nine now and we've been co parenting. We'd split up right after she turned two. So it's essentially pretty much all that she knows, there's not a lot of memories of us all living together or being together and that kind of stuff. But it was a now or never [00:10:00] situation when it was that case, because if she was a little bit older, then it would be a.

[00:10:06] JP Marsh: Grid it out for as long as I can, and then wait until she's older and can understand that why we had split up because there's going to be a fair amount of guilt from the kids thinking it's their fault and, self imposed. I did this. My parents were happy before I was born, so it must be me.

[00:10:27] JP Marsh: They got thrown in the mix and all these different things. But, in my viewpoints, I always thought. And obviously now it's been proven that two happy households is a million times more successful than one miserable one, and there are pros and cons to the nuclear family and all of these things, my, my daughter's mother lives like six blocks away from me, which is five minute drive.

[00:10:54] JP Marsh: My daughter comes and goes as she pleases. We don't have any court involvement. [00:11:00] There's no system pressure when important involvement, everything that we've done, we've just figured out ourselves. Because you start adding in financial. Hardships, because. custody, all this stuff that the system and the courts and all of these things make you do is a money funnel into the court systems between the lawyers, the mediators, the court dates, the restitutions, and just to figure out something that two adults should be able to just figure out. Each person's in it, 10, 20 grand. You're, because you can't be an adult, and this is the kind of example that you're setting for the kids. Because then you add on the stress and you add on all these financial stress and then you add on the bickering and you add on the fighting and you add on the, it's their fault that I'm broke now and it's their fault that we can't go do anything because I'm paying all this money for mediation and lawyers and court and [00:12:00] custody and duh, and then kids are caught in the middle of the entire time.

[00:12:03] JP Marsh: And so being able to just grow up and set good examples for your kids is going to be, is going to be the most beneficial part of it. And it makes it easier, but you gotta have communication. You gotta be able to communicate or else nothing's going to work out.

[00:12:18] Dori Durbin: And seeing, I would think your daughter seeing you operating the way that you are and Being encouraged.

[00:12:25] Dori Durbin: We're talking before we started to record about her traveling and how you were okay with her traveling and doing these other things. It could be really easy to be. Competitive and I can't do that and feel lesser. But in reality, you're really showing her both are fine. Like she's coming up with a solid foundation that she knows who she is within it.

[00:12:47] Dori Durbin: And I think that's super important to for her to feel like she's still seen and it's consistent for her. 

[00:12:54] JP Marsh: And You know, that's the part where I know that I lucked out, my daughter's mother is a daddy's girl. She's super close to their [00:13:00] family, super close to their dad.

[00:13:01] JP Marsh: You know when we first split up, we agreed that we would do 2 days on 2 days off because she was 2 years old, 3 years old had been around both of us for every day of her life. So that way she, at a very young age, didn't have to go long times without.

[00:13:17] JP Marsh: Seeing either one of us and as she got older, then we just kept evolving how we were doing in the time, until she got old enough to just be like, I want to go say that's my, but if she's grounded off the tablet at mom's house, she's grounded off tablet at dad's house, no TV at dad's house, no TV at mom's house, food's about the same bedtime, same time, roughly, summertime is a little different, and these, those, and the others, but.

[00:13:42] JP Marsh: There's no exploitation of 1 household compared to the other household. And so I was never put in that position where I was held from, and we also had a deal set in place that even, we have a schedule [00:14:00] that's loose. My daughter's in a blended family now. 

[00:14:02] JP Marsh: And so we have a schedule loosely.

[00:14:06] JP Marsh: For the most part that's parallel to his son's that way when they have him, they have them. And then when they have no kids, they have no kids. You know what I mean? Because this is where that competitive stuff comes in play. If you want to be the bump in the road and you're looking through the anger lens, or that I'm going to hurt you, or I'm going to ruin your life, or I don't want you to have any time away in freedom.

[00:14:33] JP Marsh: Then you throw a fit and you make them have their kids, they'll have his son this weekend, our daughter the next weekend, his son the next weekend good luck having a life. You know what I mean? And then you just get to sit and be spiteful and giggle and do whatever. But really you're just setting bad examples because everybody's stressed.

[00:14:51] JP Marsh: Nobody has any time to themselves, at least in that household kind of a situation. But we always had the deal too that, [00:15:00] even if it was for a weekend or whatever the case may be. I got first call. So if she had some girlfriends call her up and they were all going out or even if she just was like, I just need an item, I just need, it's okay to do it when you're married, but it's not all of a sudden, like when you're not married now, you're a bad mom for being like, I need space. I've had a rough week. I just need to go do something else. I got first call. So if I didn't have anything going on, I got the option to spend more time with my daughter and vice versa was the same way, but you have to be in a place where you're not going to use that as ammunition later, whereas 

[00:15:41] Dori Durbin: the other parents saying they needed a day off from you. 

[00:15:44] JP Marsh: You run into a lot of situations and it'd be like, if I called, if I called her and said, Hey, There's a mud bog deal or a demolition derby or something.

[00:15:54] JP Marsh: Adeline doesn't want to go. Are you busy? And I do this a lot with work because there's weekends where I need to go into [00:16:00] work and do these things. And it's Hey, you got anything planned this weekend? Can I drop her off, go to work, whatever. I've never gotten that text or phone call later on saying if you don't want her, maybe you shouldn't, if you can't, if you can't have her on your time, maybe you shouldn't just have her anymore.

[00:16:18] JP Marsh: You know what I mean? And that those kinds of things never came up, but they do a lot when you're still stuck in this place of. being mad at the other person for something that you really need to let go of. 

[00:16:32] Dori Durbin: Would you say a lot of the people that come to you for help are in that spot and that's really like the biggest thing that you have to flush out for them?

[00:16:40] JP Marsh: Yeah, because everybody is so focused on the past mistakes, and then they see everything through this clout of hurt feelings or anger or, and then it becomes a deal where it becomes, a snowball and then everything [00:17:00] starts getting clouded in this because things that have nothing to do with being a parent start also getting thrown into this snowball , say if it's a situation where the husband, it was an infidelity deal and it has nothing to do with him being right, then that would still be brought up and you see it brought up all the time.

And so then you got to get through a lot of that stuff and get out of that space of being able to blame this person or attack all these tax on them and poke and poke and poke because, okay.

[00:17:32] JP Marsh: He was he cheated, infidelity is there that caused the. The final thing filed paperwork for divorce or the split up or break up, but then you keep digging back and back. And it's you checked out of the marriage 2 years before that. And every time he was trying to plan a vacation with no kids, and you got so wrapped into being your identity as a mother that you forgot that you were a wife and partner and your own person. That you guys didn't do [00:18:00] anything together or for yourselves, kid free date nights, no intimacy, every advance on his part got rejected, but it's all his fault.

[00:18:11] JP Marsh: Right? And it's it takes two and it even with the co parenting deal, everybody loves to say my ex is a high conflict or, my ex husband's high conflict. My dad's ex wife is high conflict, and it's no, you all are because you were all feeding into it. And nobody's doing anything to clear it out, but you're only focusing on the negative things because you're still stuck in this place where you see them so negatively that even if the things that they're doing well, you only focus on the negative, but when you can reframe it and see them as a co parent, who's trying to, maybe they're maybe they're not perfect, but, you're probably not either and it's just weird little reframing deals that people, Once you know, once people can start to acknowledge them and get out of that [00:19:00] space, because it's like they're always late to drop off and pick up always.

[00:19:03] JP Marsh: And it's you'd rag on them every week that you're doing drop off, that they're late. What if you came at a minute from a different angle because they're just tuning you out at this point. They're not listening to you yelling at them. They don't care if you're mad at them because it's a constant. If they are early on time, or they do text you before they leave and say, Hey, I'm going to be 15 minutes later, whatever. Why not give them positive reinforcement? Be like, you know what? I really appreciate it. When you think ahead, plan ahead and show up on time because you, it makes me feel like you respect my time and know that I have other things to do.

[00:19:39] JP Marsh: And I really appreciate it. And then guess what? They start showing up on time because they're not getting yelled at for being late. They're getting praised for being on time, or, it doesn't even have to be like, you don't even have to make a big deal out of it. Just. Thanks for being on time.

[00:19:54] JP Marsh: I'm crunch for time as it is. I appreciate it. When you're here on time, load the kids up and go rather than [00:20:00] having this huge fight late and da, and then it's everybody's videotaping you on your phones in the Walmart parking lot because there's some mad woman having a freak out in the middle of the parking lot, 

[00:20:10] Dori Durbin: so really it's like trying not to be the person who is winning, trying to be somebody who's appreciative of what's being done well, and then communicating really expectations or things that you appreciate. And really that's, those are like the fundamentals of being like a good friend, a good spouse, all this.

[00:20:30] Dori Durbin: But it is interesting that you said that, people get caught up in, What is so negative that it's almost like I said, they have to win the war of what's going on and all that your poor kid is like watching in the middle of it. Yeah, it's probably really hard to separate that out for people.

[00:20:50] Dori Durbin: I would think. 

[00:20:50] JP Marsh: It is. And then, the other thing people don't understand is when you sit and poke and they poke back and then you poke and then it [00:21:00] escalates. You essentially get 2 people throwing gasoline on a bar. But you're both hoping the fire is going to go out and getting people to quit engaging in negative behaviors and quit engaging in these things.

[00:21:14] JP Marsh: That are going to keep things in a place of misery, and I'm not saying you got to be best friends, but there's something to be said about civility because as much as people don't want to be in that situation, people are unwilling to be the change to change that situation.

[00:21:35] JP Marsh: Because when I started mine, it was, there was. It was fairly high conflict because one or both of us would sue about it. All these. Poking back and forth when really I was just being a baby and it was mostly my fault because I would instantly get defensive over stupid things in my mind.

[00:21:51] JP Marsh: I could justify being defensive and then I would poke and because that's how we were towards the last few months that we were together before we'd split up. [00:22:00] And so that was how we spoke to each other.

[00:22:02] JP Marsh: And that's how we interacted. And so it carried over until something had to change. But the reality was. We weren't together anymore. And how we talked to each other before, that was a lot of the reason that the relationship deteriorated and I had to reframe and change the way that I interact with her so that it would essentially, she would mirror that back to me, but you got to quit talking to them.

[00:22:29] JP Marsh: Like you're married to them still, or quit talking to them the way that you used to talk to them and talk to them. So if the other parents likes to freak out to get the attention in the drop off pickups or likes to make these little folks at you, if you don't give them the reaction that they're looking for, they stopped looking for that reaction usually. It may take time, but they're going to stop looking for that reaction or stop poking at you at least because they're not going to get the reaction that they expect or look for. 

[00:22:59] Dori Durbin: [00:23:00] Yeah that's so that's probably if I were to ask, if somebody was considering trying to change their relationship and do more of co parenting, that's probably one of the first things is getting a hold of the desire to attack the other person.

[00:23:12] Dori Durbin: And what else would you say were some other steps that they would need to take in order to get a co parenting relationship going? 

[00:23:20] JP Marsh: It, time is going to be a major factor. Because the, If it's newer divorce, something like that, one person is going to be hurt a lot more than the other person, because typically one person checked out of that marriage 6 months to a year before the other person even knew that divorce was coming. And so then they're going to have to deal with that other person dating a lot sooner than they're ready to date and seeing them doing these things that, oh, we just got divorced.

[00:23:49] JP Marsh: It's just we just split up four months ago and she's already, got a serious boyfriend or whatever, and I'm still hurt, but dealing with your own baggage and your own [00:24:00] shortcomings. And be the change that you want the other person to join in and follow. And it's going to take time, you might cut the explosions and the big fights from twice a day to once a day.

[00:24:13] JP Marsh: . And it's going to take time, but you're breaking bad habits and trying to instill new habits and just like working out at the gym or eating healthy or.

[00:24:20] JP Marsh: It takes more time to break bad habits and instill good habits and that kind of stuff. And then working with people that are not on your side and or against you, because it's really easy to get stuck in this loop where you're, your camp is telling you that you're doing nothing wrong. It's always the other person.

[00:24:44] JP Marsh: You're the perfect parent. You're the perfect one to co parent. You're always right. And you're not getting a not unbiased. Viewpoint, because if you're the problem, you need to know that you're the problem, like it's [00:25:00] easy, your parents are not going to tell you that you're the monster and nobody's the villain of their own story.

[00:25:05] JP Marsh: And your friends are always going to say, Oh, he's just a monster. It's his fault. There's no, there's no reason you should have to tell him that you got a new boyfriend that's living with you and his kids. You know what I mean? And it's like, how dare he get upset? It's your house, your rules.

[00:25:19] JP Marsh: And it's there's somebody living in the house with my kids, so obviously I deserve to know and then with the being, getting the deep dive into your own self, figuring out what your triggers are will make it easier to not get triggered and then once you know what your triggers are once you identify your triggers, then you can start setting, communicating your boundaries and you have to communicate them because nobody's a mind reader. I don't understand how people get mad when their boundaries are crossed when they don't even say anything to the other person or express their boundaries to anybody.

[00:25:53] JP Marsh: They just know that's my boundary and then now. Upset, right? But with the boundaries [00:26:00] and the communication, what you deem is acceptable behavior on both sides. And what is acceptable communication, acceptable lives, health, hygiene, monetary obligations, attendance at school functions and attendance at this and that.

[00:26:16] JP Marsh: And all of these things. But, my daughter was young, we'd split up, we had set a boundary or a guideline that if I started dating somebody or if her mother started dating somebody and it was getting serious to the point where they were going to be around our daughter, we got to meet them first.

[00:26:33] JP Marsh: And so we got a feel for that person before my daughter was ever around them, but that also eliminated. My daughter coming home and be like, Oh, yeah, mom's new boyfriend is living with us now. And I didn't know she was dating anybody. You know what I mean? Now, all of a sudden, there's a strange man in the house with my daughter that I don't know nothing about you're not getting shocked with, you can set these sort of guidelines and don't double standard them. No, if they can have a life, you can have a life. You can have a [00:27:00] life. They can have a life. If you don't want them stalking you on social media, don't stalk them on social media.

[00:27:06] JP Marsh: They're allowed to have a life.

[00:27:08] JP Marsh: But it's, those are the three. They roll into each other. You gotta get out of your own way and reframe your mind, the way you see that person, and then you can start. Getting out of that revolving door of triggers and explosions. And then once everything's mellows out to where you can openly communicate, then you can start setting better boundaries, , it makes it a lot easier because nobody is shocked by somebody else's decision, but that's even to be said, even if you're still married, having a clear outline of what's deemed acceptable behavior, a united front guiding our children or child, on the same page.

[00:27:49] Dori Durbin: Yeah. Tell us a little bit, I know that you have your own coaching. . And people may be curious about how you work with couples or individuals with the co-parenting aspects. 

[00:27:59] JP Marsh: [00:28:00] It's. It's just one on one or, couples, a couple of phone calls a week or zoom calls, and then it's a fair amount of. Breaking down, that kind of stuff like dealing with the baggage of the relationship and getting out of your own way and breaking down the walls of.

[00:28:18] JP Marsh: I'm perfect. They're horrible. Because, everybody is so quick to, to reinforce bad behaviors. Whereas I, I'm just more, a little bit cut and dry and just here's the problem. Because everybody just kind of wants to be right. And it's not really the case, but the downstream effects I fear for kids, especially in my mind, I essentially work for the kids. Because it's not their fault. They didn't ask to be born. You have kids.

[00:28:48] JP Marsh: You chose to have kids. They didn't ask to be here. You chose to split up. They didn't ask to be caught in the middle. And there's a lot of things that I feel parents do that they don't even realize how [00:29:00] detrimental it will be later in life for their kids. Because essentially every kid tends to think that they're 50 percent mom, 50 percent dad. So they're sitting there getting hammered by both parents everywhere that they go, because the half of me that's dad is getting hammered on by mom nonstop and vice versa at dad's house.

[00:29:23] JP Marsh: And then I have to be this person at mom's house and have to act like I don't like dad either. And I can't say that I love dad or miss dad. 

[00:29:31] JP Marsh: Fast forward 10, 12 years till they're 18, 19, 20 years old, and they don't have a clue who they are because they've had to pretend to be this person at mom's house, this person at dad's house.

[00:29:40] JP Marsh: Now, all of a sudden they go to college. They don't have to be either one of those people, but who are they now? And then they spend their whole twenties trying to figure out who they are when it should have been their teenage adolescent years, figuring out who they are. And now you've got a 35 year old, 20 year old.

[00:29:57] JP Marsh: And so if you want your kids to [00:30:00] live in the same sort of place you are, then stay in the same place. But if you want your kids to be functioning adults that can have difficult conversations, you got to get outside help sometimes. And so I do a lot of that kind of stuff.

[00:30:17] JP Marsh: And then, Exercises and books to, to read and the way that you reframe, you can hack your brain same as anything else. And so there's a lot of things that you can do daily, weekly, minutely to change the way that you perceive the reality that's around you.

[00:30:34] JP Marsh: And I usually work with people for six months. Because I'm going to push you forward because you've got to raise the kids and they need you now.

[00:30:44] JP Marsh: You know what I mean? So that's a lot of it. 

[00:30:49] Dori Durbin: I think. People listening probably can tell that you're going to straight shoot and tell them exactly, what they need to hear, but I think your purpose and the forward future [00:31:00] thinking of kids and what their lives could be versus what they could end up being is quite a bit different.

[00:31:05] Dori Durbin: No, that's great. That's great. Okay. I know they can get a hold of you on Instagram. Can you give them that information? 

[00:31:13] JP Marsh: It's JP Marsh, just without the A. It's just my name, but last name doesn't have an A in it. And that's the best place to reach me. I I'm not a big fan of social media, so I direct everybody for these kinds of deals to Instagram because I don't do anything personal on Instagram.

[00:31:32] JP Marsh: And then you're If you have questions or scenarios, or, I'm willing to just respond to people's questions if they have any, it doesn't necessarily need to turn into some sort of sales call. I delegate everybody there because it's easier to keep track.

[00:31:45] JP Marsh: I'm not a big social media guy. 

[00:31:48] Dori Durbin: That's okay. And they can message you there too, right? So they can message you that way too. 

[00:31:52] JP Marsh: Yeah. 

[00:31:53] Dori Durbin: Good. JP, this has been super great to talk about. And I really appreciate your perspective and your [00:32:00] honesty. I'm hoping people will reach out to you to ask you more questions I'm sure we didn't hit all of them today.

[00:32:05] JP Marsh: Yeah, thanks for having me. I really had fun.