[00:00:00] Annette Athy: adults tend to get stuck in grief. Once we lose somebody, we are sad, and that sadness stays with us.

[00:00:09] Annette Athy: Kids don't do that. Kids pop in and out in these almost grief storms that kind of just pop into their life and then back out. And they may pop in throughout the day, or it may be once a week. It looks very different than adults. 

[00:00:26] Dori Durbin: Hey, welcome, Annette. It is so good to have you on the show today. 

[00:00:30] Annette Athy: Oh, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. 

[00:00:33] Dori Durbin: I am so interested in what it is that you do because I think it's very unique. It's not something that a lot of people know is available to families and that's grief counseling. Yes. Yes.

[00:00:47] Dori Durbin: So I'm going to hit you hard right away with a tough question. So what is the difference between experiencing grief versus experiencing trauma for kids? 

[00:00:57] Annette Athy: I think for many of our kids and [00:01:00] adults, too, is that grief pops up for lots of different reasons. For most of the time, a loss of a parent or a grandparent, but it's even grieving friendships ending or transitioning to a new school.

[00:01:16] Annette Athy: Grief can happen in a lot of ways. And I think what parents Don't always know is that these grief things show up and there are things that we need to be talking about having conversations about and parents don't always know the right way or a way to bring these conversations up and Because they're not talking about them then sometimes those create more of this trauma issue, this bigger mental health problem because it's gone on, and our children assign their own meanings to what this grief means, [00:02:00] and if we're not helping role model or guide them as their parents, then they're left to their own devices.

[00:02:07] Dori Durbin: Yeah, and I would think that Our assumptions of what they're experiencing are probably quite a bit different than what they're actually experiencing to 

[00:02:19] Annette Athy: absolutely, because as adults, we've had. A lifetime of experiences and those experiences have different meanings to us. And for instance, when a child loses a parent, we, as adults can see all of the things that their parent is now going to not be a part of.

[00:02:40] Annette Athy: For instance, graduations, a wedding, big events, and our child isn't there yet. They're not thinking about the next 20 or 30 years of events that parent isn't going to be at. And so our kids pop in and out of grief, which is very different than [00:03:00] adults, because adults tend to get stuck in grief. Once we lose somebody, we are sad, and that sadness stays with us.

[00:03:10] Annette Athy: Kids don't do that. Kids pop in and out in these almost grief storms that kind of just pop into their life and then back out. And they may pop in throughout the day, or it may be once a week. It looks very different than adults.

[00:03:26] Dori Durbin: That's really fascinating. And it really gets my mind going because I'm thinking most parents would want to try to solve or help their kids process.

[00:03:37] Dori Durbin: And so they're probably really confused when the action doesn't seem to be grief anymore. And then it comes up again and goes away and comes up again. So they're probably inadvertently trying to fix something that maybe doesn't need to be fixed. 

[00:03:51] Annette Athy: Absolutely. Absolutely. And our kids naturally, by design, are popping in and out of these feelings, and us as [00:04:00] adults want them to stay in the sadness, or why isn't my kid looking sad all the time, or what's wrong with them?

[00:04:08] Annette Athy: They're okay to go and play, and it's very well intended. And as parents. Sometimes when our kids are in the middle of their grief storm and they're experiencing this sadness, we also don't know what to do with that because we just want them to be happy. We don't want them to be stuck in the sadness.

[00:04:29] Dori Durbin: Okay, I think I'm going to have you explain what a grief storm is now because I think that would help our listeners really understand exactly what you're talking about. 

[00:04:39] Annette Athy: Okay, so I, over my 20 years of being a former licensed counselor, I noticed that there were five different types of grievers, and in those patterns, kids grieve [00:05:00] five different ways.

[00:05:01] Annette Athy: And so we have the rain shower grief, which a rain shower griever, these kids are able to talk about their feelings. They're able to express their feelings when they come up. They're ready to talk about it. So if they're sad, they're going to be crying. They're able to label that. We then move into the thunderstorm grief and the thunderstorm grief are those kiddos that almost those feelings come up and they're just trying to get your attention.

[00:05:35] Annette Athy: So they're pretty fleeting. So the sadness may come up for a second and then Long enough to get your attention, and then they've moved through their storm. The blizzard grief kids are the category that I would say most parents and myself worry about because they're the kids who keep everything inside.

[00:05:57] Annette Athy: Internally, they have a lot going [00:06:00] on, but they are not going to be the kid who comes to you with those feelings. They're waiting for you to approach them. And their face may look like everything is fine, but on the inside, things are not fine. The tornado grief are those kids who have these big feelings, big emotions, and these big reactions come up.

[00:06:24] Annette Athy: They need to really let the storm out. They need to, experience these feelings, and then they're able to move through their grief storm. And then we have the hurricane grief, which are those kids where you can see it building. Sometimes it's building for a couple days, sometimes it's building for a week or two, and then there's a big explosion.

[00:06:51] Annette Athy: And they're going to be the kids who experience it. Act out who are going to take their feelings out on you. They're going to call [00:07:00] you names. They're potentially going to hit or throw things because they don't know what to do with those feelings. They're just so big, they almost overtake them. And so these five different grief storm types, it's not that one type is better or worse than the other, but with these five patterns of behaviors, it's really about your child's personality.

[00:07:29] Annette Athy: and how they handle big emotions. It's really not just about grief. And so what I have found is that most parents who take my grief storm quiz to identify what type of griever their child is, they all talk about how this is just spot on with who their kid is that I have really nailed these grief storm types.

[00:07:52] Annette Athy: And they really feel seen and heard once they take this quiz.

[00:07:56] Dori Durbin: And you said also that [00:08:00] sometimes the parent. isn't the same as the kid. So then there's a whole new type of level with that communication of what's happening, right? 

[00:08:09] Annette Athy: Absolutely. So a great example of that is if you take the grief storm quiz for your child and then you go back and take it for yourself Good example of that is when your child is a rain shower grief type, and so this means they're able to cry, they're able to express their feelings when they're mad, when they're sad, and maybe you as a mom have taken the grief storm quiz and you're more of a blizzard type.

[00:08:38] Annette Athy: So the type who's gonna keep it inside. You're gonna look like everything is fine on the outside, but on the inside things are not okay. You're going to become triggered by your rain shower grief child because they're crying and you don't understand what's wrong with them. Why can't they keep their tears inside?

[00:08:58] Annette Athy: Why do they have to [00:09:00] express their sadness all the time? Why do they have to talk about their loved one who has died all the time? And again, It comes from a well intentioned place, but it can definitely lead to some frustration or irritation because you're looking at your child almost saying, Why can't you be more like me?

[00:09:21] Annette Athy: And it's just not their personality type. 

[00:09:24] Dori Durbin: That's going to be hard because I think, again, we're trying to solve and make them feel better. And so you make a lot of assumptions as parents that you don't realize that you're actually making, and you're like, why can't you feel better? What's going on? And yeah, that would be, that'd be really tricky. So when they take that test and you realize that they're, you're different than them, then what's the next step? How does that get resolved? 

[00:09:50] Annette Athy: In the GriefStorm type quiz, I do provide a lot of information, kind of awareness about these GriefStorm types, [00:10:00] but also there is some specific things or ways you can handle these GriefStorms by knowing how to respond.

[00:10:11] Annette Athy: What kinds of words or statements to use with your child can help allow your child to have these grief storms and for you as the parent to become the safe container for them to have or experience this grief storm and where you can work together. Everything that I teach is very much from the perspective of let's work smarter, not harder.

[00:10:43] Annette Athy: And so everything I teach is something you can do, but also your child can do. So there's nothing that is, oh, only parents can do this. All of the tools are helping both. So that you're modeling as the [00:11:00] parent, but also the child is learning because they've never experienced grief. Most likely this is going to be their first experience, and this is new to them.

[00:11:10] Annette Athy: It's unfamiliar territory. Where you as an adult probably have been through this before. And so you may just need some guidance on how to coach your child.

[00:11:25] Dori Durbin: I think the tools are really essential too because the perfect scenario would be that your parent, as a parent, you're always there to help them.

[00:11:33] Dori Durbin: But let's say you're not there and they're at a friend's house or they're, learning these skills and down the road, they're off somewhere else, college, whatever. Those are skills that they can take with them as well. 

[00:11:47] Annette Athy: Absolutely. Absolutely. And everything that I teach is not only just for Older kids, they're very adaptable things, so even if you have kids [00:12:00] that maybe are toddler age, as well.

[00:12:02] Annette Athy: Elementary and then a high schooler. There are things that are very adaptable that you can make very age appropriate, which I think is really important because as parents, we are working hard. We have a lot going on and so we don't want to. to be trying to figure out or adapt to make things, more difficult.

[00:12:28] Annette Athy: We want to ease and adding things in as, as easily as possible. 

[00:12:35] Dori Durbin: So when it comes to the environment and trying to to create an environment that's going to support your child and not overwhelm your child, Are there any tricks or anything that, that we as parents should be really aware of? 

[00:12:48] Annette Athy: I think the biggest thing is being willing to experiment.

[00:12:53] Annette Athy: Being willing to step out of our comfort zone and thinking that we have to [00:13:00] say things in a certain way or craft these perfect conversations where most grief conversations in about a three to five minute short conversation are going to be the most productive, the most helpful, and the most meaningful.

[00:13:21] Annette Athy: One tip that I usually share with all parents is car talks are a fabulous time. When, and this I think applies most with teenagers, but even with our younger kiddos, because our kids don't have to look at us. And so they're more willing to engage with us and really tell us what they think, because our eyes are going to be on the road.

[00:13:47] Annette Athy: And so they're able to share a little bit more, and because you're in the car, you're going somewhere, at some point that conversation is going to end. So they don't have to worry that you're going to step up on [00:14:00] your soapbox and they're going to be sitting here listening for hours. And so I think car talks are a huge help for parents.

[00:14:09] Dori Durbin: That's a great suggestion. It's idle time otherwise, and just the perfect opportunity. 

[00:14:15] Dori Durbin: When it comes to people reaching out to you and getting help, do you have any areas that are easy for people to get into, get their feet wet and find out what it's all about?

[00:14:26] Annette Athy: I do. So I have the quiz. Which helps you identify what type of grief storm your child is, and that's at griefstormquiz. com. And then I also have a guide that helps parents understand what words are most helpful to use when talking about death and dying. And so they can sign up for that freebie.

[00:14:51] Annette Athy: And then I also have my Facebook group, which is Growing Up With Grief, and [00:15:00] that Facebook group is free I have a lot of parents in there who share their experiences we do Facebook lives, there's a lot of education, a lot of videos in there on how to talk about death, how to explain death talking about, Grief stories about how to use tapping.

[00:15:22] Annette Athy: So there's a lot of free information in there that lives in the group as well as just having that community and knowing that you are not the only one who is struggling parents talking about kind of their frustrations and helping their child talk or, why aren't they talking to me? And so it's just a great place to know that.

[00:15:47] Annette Athy: You are not alone in the struggle. 

[00:15:50] Dori Durbin: That's awesome. And I know you have social media presence as well that people could spy into as well. Where can they find you there? 

[00:15:58] Annette Athy: Yes, so it's [00:16:00] Dr. Annette. And that is, I have a Facebook business page as well as I do have Instagram. I don't spend a lot of time on Instagram because I find that most of my people are on Facebook.

[00:16:16] Annette Athy: But definitely the Facebook group is the place to spend the most time just because it has most of the resources in there. Everything is housed in the guide section, so it's easy to find if you're looking for a specific age that you're struggling with or a specific problem. Those anxious behaviors or the acting out behaviors, wanting to know how to handle those.

[00:16:42] Annette Athy: And so they're already in there. You can binge watch it like Netflix and go in and watch video after video or you can just go in and look for the specific topic that you're looking for. 

[00:16:55] Dori Durbin: Awesome. Awesome. And I know it's hard to come up with this because maybe a [00:17:00] parent isn't experiencing grief in their family right now, but let's say there is something going on.

[00:17:05] Dori Durbin: Going on. What are a few steps that parents could do immediately after the podcast to help their kids and maybe even themselves?

[00:17:13] Annette Athy: Again, I would highly encourage that they go and take the grief storm quiz. at griefstormquiz. com. That helps them just have an idea or a check in on how their child is grieving, and so how those specific behaviors might be showing up in their household.

[00:17:36] Annette Athy: And again, take it for yourself. Because, as a parent, you might be grieving in a different way, and so that also helps just give you a little bit more insight and awareness, and I believe that having that awareness is step one in being able to do things differently if it's not going well at home.

[00:17:57] Annette Athy: The next thing I would [00:18:00] suggest is that After you've identified what type of griever, I do offer some specific tips in there for your grieving type. And for most, it's have the conversation. Ask the question, use your loved one's name, so specifically asking your child, Hey, it's been a while since we've talked about dad, just wondering how you're doing.

[00:18:31] Annette Athy: For And then stop and listen. Don't try to answer for them. Don't push them to answer as quickly as you think that they should answer. Just stop and wait. And most of the time, our kids have something to say. It's unfortunately, as parents, we Sometimes you want to hurry up the conversation [00:19:00] because we're uncomfortable in having this grief talk.

[00:19:04] Annette Athy: And have the conversation. Don't worry about it being perfect or going a certain way. Just start the conversation. And once, once you have that conversation, You can always then go back and re evaluate, okay, how do I want to do this different next time? And for your teenagers, it might be, use text.

[00:19:31] Annette Athy: Ask them over text instead of in person. Because we all know most of our teenagers want to spend time in their bedroom alone, doing their own thing. Take advantage of the technology and start the conversation that way.

[00:19:47] Dori Durbin: Those are great suggestions, Annette. I love the fact that you're meeting the kids where they are.

[00:19:51] Dori Durbin: And I think that's exactly, where you need to be as a parent coming in and not trying to anticipate how they should react. So perfect. [00:20:00] 

[00:20:00] Annette Athy: Exactly. 

[00:20:01] Dori Durbin: Annette, thank you so much for your time. And I know that if people are really struggling with this, or if they're concerned about how their child is acting and not sure what to do, you'd be the perfect resource to talk to.

[00:20:15] Annette Athy: Oh, thank you very much. 

[00:20:17] Dori Durbin: Thank you.