[00:00:00] Dori Durbin: Have your kids ever struggled with trying to memorize a large quantity of material? Well, what if that material was actually part of your tradition or your culture? How would you help them remember it? Would it be through repetition or song, or maybe just maybe through a children's book. Today's guests have worked on coming up with the perfect solution. To remembering something that's very complex. Listen in. 

[00:00:30] Dori Durbin: Today, we have two ladies who not only took an idea and made it into a conversation, but they took the conversation and made it into a way to remember something very, very special. And I'm fascinated to find out just how they did it. 

[00:00:46] Dori Durbin: Welcome to the show. Phyllis Williams and LaTricia Smith. They're the co-authors of the book. in Nguso Saba. 

[00:00:55] Dori Durbin: Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. 

[00:00:59] Dori Durbin: Thank you both for [00:01:00] being here.

[00:01:00] Dori Durbin: I know you're making a special exemption just to do this, and I appreciate that. And I am so curious, Phyllis, can you give us an idea of just what your book is about and how it came to be? 

[00:01:14] LaTricia: This book came to be just by an idea, and uh, there's other children's books about just starting with an idea.

[00:01:22]LaTricia: Latricia and I had a podcast called Living the Principles podcast, which we focused on the principles. So, um, I'm going to start with the principles. I would go to events, and they would ask me things concerning their principles, and I would be solo, and I said, Patricia, I promise by next Kwanzaa, I'm gonna know the principles, know their order, and know how to pronounce them.

[00:01:42] LaTricia: But being the person that I am, I'm animated, and engaging. I came up with a story. And the story was really just for me to remember how to remember the principles, remember their order, remember their pronunciation. [00:02:00] And I sent it to Latricia and she said, this will be a book. So that was the concept at first, but we did a lot of 

[00:02:08] Dori Durbin: revisions with it.

[00:02:10] Dori Durbin: Interesting. I love that you came up with sort of your own way to remember something, because that's what we always are told in school, right? To create a story, to make the those connections that we can't quite keep a hold of. And then how, Latricia, how did this come into actual book form? 

[00:02:28] Phyllis: Well, like Phyllis said, she had made a recording. After she made the recording and we came up with the plan to turn it into a book, we transcribed it. Once we transcribed it, we went back and forth, adding, taking away, adding, taking away. We had numerous edits until we turned it into something that we both liked. Then we got it professionally edited and hired an illustrator and the rest, as they 

[00:02:57] Dori Durbin: say, is history.

[00:02:59] Dori Durbin: That's [00:03:00] awesome. And I'm sure having two authors contributing ideas, it was probably really tricky to edit, right? 

[00:03:08] Dori Durbin: Well, 

[00:03:10] Phyllis: not so much tricky. I think it was interesting because Phyllis, she is a very creative storyteller. 

[00:03:22] LaTricia: The thing about LaTricia and I that's so great is we have a lot of the same values, but our thought is different. I'm a, I'm a big picture person, so I can do a rough draft of this story, but Latricia, I remember we were editing and she said, Well, did the sun set or did it? Something else, because it's gun time. I would have never thought of that. 

[00:03:46] Phyllis: I'm more of a fine 

[00:03:47] LaTricia: detail. 

[00:03:48] LaTricia: Yeah, she's very particular, but it works out for us because , we can unite, , the product 

[00:03:54] Dori Durbin: is very good. 

[00:03:57] Dori Durbin: I can see how that would really benefit the story, [00:04:00] too, because you would pick up on a lot of things that maybe, if it was one author, you would miss it, just from the fact that you might be more focused on the big story, or more focused just on the little details. And you said that there you were working on your podcast at the time when the idea actually started to come about. So can you tell us a little bit about your podcast 

[00:04:19] Dori Durbin: living 

[00:04:19]LaTricia: the Principles podcast was based on the Seven Principles of Kwanzaa, and the purpose was not for people to actually practice the holiday, but become more familiar with the principles and incorporate them in practical ways. We, we interviewed other authors and people who were nominated for Grammys and hip hop artists.

[00:04:48] LaTricia: We had our own discussions about different things concerning the principles, whether they were movies or current events. So you've heard of the Christmas spirit, and you think of the Christmas spirit, you mostly [00:05:00] think about beliefs and giving. So we wanted to incorporate the and quite enlightening because you were

[00:05:14] Dori Durbin: getting a lot of different perspectives then. Okay, LaTricia, I'm going to put you on the spot because I know Phyllis, Phyllis must have these down now. 

[00:05:23] Dori Durbin: So what are some of the principles in case somebody doesn't know what the principles of Kwanzaa 

[00:05:27] Phyllis: are? 

[00:05:29] Phyllis: Oh, you were supposed to put Phyllis on the spot.

[00:05:32] Dori Durbin: We can, we 

[00:05:33] Phyllis: still can. 

[00:05:35] Phyllis: So there are seven principles. There is the English version, and then there's the, Swahili version, which the title of the book, Nguzo Saba, that means the seven principles. So the seven principles are Umoja, which means unity, Fujichagulia, which is self determination, [00:06:00] Ujima, which is collective work and responsibility, Ujama, which is cooperative economics, Niya, which is purpose. Kuumba, which is creativity, and Imani, 

[00:06:19] Dori Durbin: which is faith. 

[00:06:21] Dori Durbin: Beautiful. Good job, by the way. 

[00:06:24] Dori Durbin: Thank you. 

[00:06:26] Dori Durbin: And so, those principles in your story, is it something, Phyllis, where you have a character who is just, like, remembering these or enacting them, or how, how does that come into play with your story? 

[00:06:41] LaTricia: Even though it's a story, it's really an adventure book. So, the church has spoken of homology, which is unity. Umoja was the young girl who was traveling to see her grandmother. And along the way, she runs across people who have [00:07:00] porns of names like Pooch Chagalia. He was a lumberjack that protected them. And then there was Ujima, who gave her, demolited her wagon.

[00:07:12] LaTricia: Ujama, Cooperative Economics, that was a marketplace. Nia was a person as well and her name, um, she helped them find her their way as well. So although the principles, some of the principles are written as if there were characters and some of them are places or groups of people, Kumba, they come across a group of people who are entertainers and Kumba means creativity and the Kumba 

[00:07:42] Dori Durbin: group, entertaining. 

[00:07:45] Dori Durbin: I love that because that does, if you have them assigned to different roles through the book, that definitely would help kids to learn that. And be able to, assimilate what their purpose was. So I, that's very smart. I like that a lot.[00:08:00] 

[00:08:01] Dori Durbin: So the book itself, when you first got it out, I'm sure you were excited and you wanted to show everyone you possibly could. My question is, how did you start getting it out there? 

[00:08:13] Phyllis: We had a lot of things that happened along the way. But when we finally got it done, I guess Suzetta was the first person because she went back over and, edited the book for us again. So she was able to read the story and tell us her thoughts and help us to improve the story even more.

[00:08:34] Phyllis: Yeah. But once we got it all finished, I think we shared it with our family and friends first. And then we had this idea to, to launch the book on November 1st. So we came up with this plan to launch the book. We sent out text messages to our friends and family, told them that the book was going to be going live, asked them [00:09:00] to purchase the book.

[00:09:02] Phyllis: Also, Phyllis, she's more of a social media person, so she also put it out on TikTok and Facebook and Instagram, so she really put it out on all the social media platforms and that helped us to get the book out there. 

[00:09:20] Dori Durbin: Awesome. Awesome. And when did this book actually come out, 

officially? 

[00:09:25] Phyllis: We officially launched it on November 1st, 

[00:09:28] Dori Durbin: 2022.

[00:09:29] Dori Durbin: 2022. Okay. So have you had the opportunity to take it into any classrooms?

[00:09:38] Dori Durbin: I tried. I am a teacher. 

[00:09:40] LaTricia: So it's funny when you said that about teachers try to teach you to make a story line. I did give a copy to the librarian, but I was at a new school. And it was just such a fast pace. I didn't get a chance to read it to any of the classes. So I do have it. At our [00:10:00] local my current 

[00:10:01] Dori Durbin: school.

[00:10:04] Dori Durbin: Okay. Yeah. I was curious I think from the teacher perspective of trying to explain, a tradition that they're not familiar with having those characters and. Having a storyline like that could,, be memorable to even the teacher, to be able to talk about it is really powerful.

[00:10:21] Dori Durbin: And so I just assumed that no matter what, the class would really enjoy the story and then probably be able to give you that feedback 

[00:10:29] Dori Durbin: we did read 

[00:10:30] LaTricia: it to a Girl Scout group in Tennessee, another nonprofit in California. And I'll show a Kwanzaa group in North Carolina. So we did get it out in that way, reading it virtually to others. 

[00:10:47] Phyllis: It was quite different. It was a quite different experience writing a children's book. And I was really excited about having this book out. Not only because it's a good [00:11:00] story. And that may be bias, but not only is it a good story, but also it has beautiful illustrations.

[00:11:07] Phyllis: So all around, I just really like this book. In fact, I really love this book. So yes, it was really, it was really 

[00:11:16] Dori Durbin: exciting. 

[00:11:17] Dori Durbin: So do you have a nonfiction book out there as well? Yes. Oh, tell us about that,

[00:11:25] Phyllis: we also teamed up with some other people and we wrote a book together, I think there were eight of us, we wrote a book together about the eight dimensions of life. And then Phyllis has some other books that she has written solo as well. 

[00:11:46] Phyllis: Phyllis? 

[00:11:47]LaTricia: Yes. 

[00:11:48] LaTricia: So the book that she mentioned with the eight dimensions, that was called the Happy Mind Matrix. Coach Billie. She was the orchestrator of that. Then the other books that I wrote independently, [00:12:00] one was called The Art of Me, 30 strategies to discover yourself. Work. It has journal pieces, short stories, poetry, and the other book was a coloring book with a lot of my quotes and sayings. And it's The Art of Me also.

[00:12:17] LaTricia: But 30 coloring pages to practice self care. 

[00:12:22] Dori Durbin: Very neat. Very neat. 

[00:12:23] Dori Durbin: Okay, So I'm already predicting that there's probably going to be some sort of follow up piece to this book is what I'm guessing. 

[00:12:31] Phyllis: We have another book Coming out, that's a follow up. We plan on doing a three book series, but we've already written the second book, and we're working on the illustrations now. And it is called Discovering the Symbols. So in Kwanzaa, for those who aren't familiar, there are seven principles, there are seven symbols, and there are seven days.

[00:12:56] Phyllis: So our next book is about the seven symbols.[00:13:00] 

[00:13:00] Dori Durbin: Nice. And then will the next one be the seven days?

[00:13:03] Dori Durbin: Yes, exactly. How did you know? 

[00:13:07] Dori Durbin: I think it just makes, it makes great sense. You can have a series that really truly explains Kwanzaa. I love it. Congratulations, ladies. It's a big deal. 

[00:13:16] Dori Durbin: Thank 

[00:13:16] Phyllis: you. 

[00:13:18] Dori Durbin: Absolutely. 

[00:13:20] Dori Durbin: All right. So we have someone, is going to read part of your book right now for us as 

well. 

[00:13:26] Phyllis: Oh, that would be me, Latricia.

[00:13:28] Dori Durbin: Once 

[00:13:29] Phyllis: upon a time, there was a girl named Umoja who lived in a small village in Kemet. Umoja loved her family and community. One day, she went on a journey to Nguzo Saba to visit some of her loved ones. Umoja smiled at the thought of how much fun it would be when the family comes together. As Umoja walked along a wooded trail, she ran into a broken bridge.

[00:13:54] Phyllis: She cried for help, but there was no one to help her. I know! [00:14:00] I'll fix the bridge. Umoja found a tree and pushed on a limb, hoping to snap one. However, her small frame was no match for nature. She jumped on the limb and it slung her back. She dusted herself off and headed towards the limb to try again. Just then, a tall, brawny man appeared from the woods.

[00:14:23] Phyllis: He said, I saw that you were determined to do it yourself. My great aunt always said, Many hands make light work. Kuji Chagalia.

[00:14:37] Phyllis: Kujichagulia and Umoja chopped down a tree and repaired the bridge together. Once they crossed the bridge, they met an older girl named Ujima. Ujima had watched the whole ordeal. She smiled and asked where they were headed. Umoja replied, The land of Nguzo Saba. Ujima rubbed her chin and considered [00:15:00] whether to give them a ride.

[00:15:01] Phyllis: Her horses wouldn't be able to travel as fast with more people. However, if Umoja is the navigator, and Kujichagulia is strong and equipped, protecting them from thieves, she could lighten their load by being the transportation. They could be stronger, better, and safer if they work collectively. Ujima told them to hop into the carriage.

[00:15:27] Phyllis: Since she was also traveling to the land of 

[00:15:32] Dori Durbin: N'gugosaba.

[00:15:32] Dori Durbin: I love what you did. And I see Phyllis sitting there. You can't see her, LaTricia, but she is smiling. What are you thinking about your story?

[00:15:44] Dori Durbin: How 

[00:15:44] LaTricia: creative, especially they are in order because it's first Umoja is the first, Dayakorza, Pujichagulia is the second, and Ujima is the third. But in addition to that. [00:16:00] It also incorporated the principles in there. Pooja Chakralia talked about determination. Regina talked about collectivity. And I'll just, in a humble way, like...

[00:16:13] LaTricia: We were very creative with this. 

[00:16:17] Dori Durbin: I love it. You can have some pride in your work. It's perfectly fine. It sounded great. I love that it's, it's almost like a folktale type of feel to it, you know? And I could just from your words, not even seeing the illustrations, just the words, I could visualize these, these characters as being bigger than life. And I think that's really important too. That's well done ladies. Very good job. 

[00:16:43] Phyllis: Thank you. Thank you. 

[00:16:45] Dori Durbin: Yes. Yes. 

[00:16:46] Dori Durbin: Okay. What are you hoping that families get out of your books?

[00:16:51] Dori Durbin: Some 

[00:16:51] LaTricia: people will say things as if, Oh, I don't want to celebrate Kwanzaa, it's too much. Seven days is a long day. It's a [00:17:00] long time to celebrate, but Trisha and I have different backgrounds. I started celebrating Kwanzaa. Maybe seven or eight years ago, and even then I always go to the community because I don't have a family like I don't have a husband and children, but, uh, well, Tricia has been celebrating Kwanzaa for years, so to know that Kwanzaa doesn't have to be complicated, and it's more about the principles, is what I think we want others to get out of this, and it's good to have culture, cultural celebrations as well, Because some people think Kwanzaa is religious, but it's 

[00:17:37] Dori Durbin: not.

[00:17:39] Dori Durbin: And would you say the same, Latricia

[00:17:41] Dori Durbin: I agree with 

[00:17:41] Phyllis: what Phyllis said, but I would also like to add, especially as it pertains to this book and why we had the podcast in the first place, is it's about living these principles. Even if you never celebrate Kwanzaa as a holiday, [00:18:00] these principles are something you can do every day of your life without ever setting a Kwanzaa table or lighting a Kwanzaa candle.

[00:18:11] Phyllis: So I think that is what I would, I would like for people to get. Even educating yourself, just the, having the knowledge, just learning it and being familiar with it. Like Phyllis mentioned about, Culture, I think about being about cultural awareness, being aware that this even exists for, if not for yourself, for other people, 

[00:18:37] Dori Durbin: I can really appreciate that.

[00:18:38] Dori Durbin: I just spoke to somebody who is a multilingual coach, and we're talking about how culture gets lost and, you know, if people don't understand it, or they don't have any awareness, just simple awareness of it, it's something that is tragically gone. Potentially forever, and I think you're right. Like, these [00:19:00] principles are very doable for anyone and really show kind of like, I won't say the perfect living, but like, ideal life situation.

[00:19:09] Dori Durbin: So, yeah, very good. Well, as far as authoring and getting books out there into the world, there are a lot of people who really want to do this, but they have these ideas, but they really don't ever get it done. Do you have any advice for authors who are aspiring to get their ideas out there? 

[00:19:27]LaTricia: I'm always amazed when people say, Oh, you wrote a book? I want to write a book. But if... 30 people have told me that maybe one has actually done it. And I think about how we live in a technical society. We write posts all the time. Um, people like blogs and things like that.

[00:19:48] LaTricia: So it sounds so probably simple, but at least write the story down once. Get it out, just get it out. And also. Don't [00:20:00] give up when you're doing it. Latricia and I did a series on TikTok about all the, not all of them, but many of the issues we ran into with publishing this book. So to not give up and just do 

[00:20:17] Dori Durbin: it.

[00:20:17] Dori Durbin: LaTricia, you had, you had more 

[00:20:19] Phyllis: I saw. That, no, that's what I was going to say. I was going to just simply just do it and, and know that it's not an easy road ahead. One thing is writing a book and publishing it, but another thing is marketing the book and getting the book out there in the hands of hundreds of thousands of people.

[00:20:42] Phyllis: But if you're aspiring to write a book, write it. What's stopping you? 

[00:20:46] Dori Durbin: Yeah. Way too easy not to do it. It's much, and it's much more rewarding. When you get it out there and into those hands of those kids that you really want to be affected by your book.

[00:20:58] Dori Durbin: So very good. [00:21:00] When it comes to finding you on social media, if somebody wants to find you and your books, where should they go? 

[00:21:10] LaTricia: We are LTP Unlimited on TikTok. Facebook and Instagram, L T P stands for Learning the 

[00:21:18] Dori Durbin: Principle. Good. .

[00:21:21] Dori Durbin: Well, ladies, I am excited for people to find out more about your book, to go to your site and look for it. You're on Amazon as well, I believe?

[00:21:30] Phyllis: Yes, we're on Amazon and we also have a website by the same name as the book, The Journey to Ngooglesaba. com. 

[00:21:40] Dori Durbin: Fantastic. Well, thank you both for your time today, and I can't wait for people to just find out more about you. 

[00:21:47] Phyllis: Thank you.