[00:00:00] Lynn Greenberg: And as we have found, so many dyslexics are not just super smart. They have very creative ways to work around their dyslexia, to get other people to help them. And we brought that into this book. We thought this would be a perfect platform to show children with dyslexia that they have superpowers. They just need to look for them. 

[00:00:15:] Dori Durbin: That was the voice of Lynne Greenberg. She and her son, Jonathan created opportunity out of a negative label. And finding out that Jonathan had dyslexia was one of the very best things they could have ever done. 

So this may lead parents to ask the question. What does dyslexia look like when it's undiagnosed? And what may those kids be experiencing or feeling when they're at school? Could a dyslexic ever become an avid reader. And how does "Robby the Dyslexic Taxi and the Airport Adventure" show kids how to use their superpowers, even when they're dyslexic. All of these questions and more will be answered next

Welcome to the show Jonathan and Lynn Greenberg. 

[00:01:11] Lynn Greenberg: Hi, nice to be here. Thank you for having us. 

{00:00:13] Jonathon Greenberg: Thank you. 

[00:01:14] Dori Durbin: Yes, it's such a pleasure to have a team like this. To have a family team is very rare. Lynn, let me just start from the very beginning with you.

[00:01:25] Dori Durbin: When did you notice or suspect that Jonathan might actually have dyslexia? 

[00:01:29] Lynn Greenberg: Jonathan is my youngest of four. And so we had gone through, ABCs and learning to read and all of that. And then when John was very little, he was the child who did not want to watch Sesame street, sing the ABC song.

[00:01:48] Lynn Greenberg: I just. I knew something was up very, super smart, could tell you any Thomas the Tank Engine, the name of the engine, but he couldn't tell you Thomas started with T. [00:02:00] And I just, I had a feeling something was up, his teachers were saying, no, you're wrong, he's a boy, he's slow. And I was like no.

[00:02:10] Lynn Greenberg: I talked to a bunch of people. I found someone to test him when he was pretty young and we found out he was classic dyslexic, but he was very little. He was two, three when I knew something was up, but I didn't really know much about dyslexia.

[00:02:25] Dori Durbin: Yeah, I would think it'd be really hard, especially like you said, with a boy, because they tend to be, sorry, Jonathan, but they tend to be a little bit more distracted 

[00:02:35] Jon Greenberg: No offense taken. 

[00:02:38] Lynn Greenberg: I think it would have been more tricky if I hadn't had other children, but you if you listen to your gut.

[00:02:45] Lynn Greenberg: You just know something's not right, and I didn't know what it was called then, and I, I had no, no one I knew in the family. I came to find out there were others, but we had no real knowledge of anyone with dyslexia. So it's been a, it [00:03:00] was a journey, especially at the beginning. 

[00:03:02] Dori Durbin: I can imagine. And Jonathan, did you realize early on that you had, a different learning style or was it more like after you started to read that you really started to pick that up? 

[00:03:14] Jon Greenberg: When I was younger and in school with those teachers who said he's a boy and he's slow, I had it pounded into me that I was slow.

[00:03:27] Jon Greenberg: So I didn't think I had a learning difference. I thought I was just dumb. And so that was, it was hard. It was a difficult period of time. And then. When mom got me tested and they said you are classic dyslexic, I finally got to realize, oh wait, it's not just me being slow or a boy or whatever you want to say.

[00:03:54] Jon Greenberg: It was, there was a reason for it and that actually was very gratifying [00:04:00] to hear. It gave me a purpose. 

[00:04:04] Dori Durbin: Yeah. I took a lot of pressure off you. 

[00:04:07] Jon Greenberg: That is without question. Very much 

[00:04:10] Dori Durbin: So when you were in school, then did they have opportunities for you to actually receive more like one on one type of learning?

[00:04:21] Jon Greenberg: Actually the family was lucky enough that we found a school called the Windward School, which specializes in children with dyslexia. And their system was smaller classes, a different learning technique a teacher and an assistant in each class. And that was really just a godsend for us. We did that and pretty fast we started seeing results.

[00:04:48] Dori Durbin: I don't know if you wear glasses, but when you are somebody who gets used to not being able to see things, and you put glasses on for the first time, and you can see the leaves and see all of the details, had to be like that for you for [00:05:00] reading and... 

[00:05:01] Jon Greenberg: Yeah, honestly, that is a very good example of what it was like.

[00:05:08] Jon Greenberg: It still took a little bit of time to get into the reading. It's if we're using the analogy, like the glasses were far away and they kept getting closer. And that then I could still see out of them, but I started to read first picture books, then Yeah. Some young adults and I started getting faster at it and soon enough I was able to just read just about anything and I was a voracious reader then because I just Had, I guess I was trying to make up for lost time, in a sense, I would read whatever I could find.

[00:05:47] Dori Durbin: You, you seem like you have that prove them wrong kind of attitude too you're being told that you were dumb early on and you're like, oh, watch this. I'm not dumb. I've got tools now. 

[00:05:58] Jon Greenberg: I don't know. Whatever gave you that thought? 

[00:06:01] Dori Durbin: Mom's shaking her head. Lynn, is that true? 

[00:06:05] Lynn Greenberg: It is a hundred percent true.

[00:06:06] Lynn Greenberg: We, John is definitely one of these people and I'm so proud of him, but he's tell me I can't. And he will prove everyone wrong. And he went to school. He learned when he went to Wynwood. To be honest, we tried the public school system here . He's in his early 20s. To almost mid and back then they were really, they did not have a lot going on here in the public school system.

[00:06:31] Lynn Greenberg: And as John said, we were lucky to find this school. About a half hour away from us, but he the minute he started at the school, you could tell he was going to work really hard because he wanted to prove everyone wrong. And he wanted to learn how to read and catch up to his older siblings. He really learned a lot quickly.

[00:06:50] Lynn Greenberg: It was great. 

[00:06:52] Dori Durbin: That's amazing. And I think that's such a testament to your family, to John, to just the concept that, you might be labeled, but you don't have to stay labeled. And, that was, that label was probably enough to, push you over the top

[00:07:06] Dori Durbin: it gave you motivation to overcome that much quicker. 

[00:07:12] Jon Greenberg: I will say that competition did help, but also the support that I got from my family was invaluable. If there was every chance they could have gotten that they would have agreed with the teachers that they thought I was just, a slow learner, but they believed that it wasn't just me, they, there were times that I'd find my mom later once we discovered I was dyslexic, just reading a book late at night about dyslexia and children with it.

[00:07:44] Jon Greenberg: And my family, me. Made a lot of sacrifices to make me be able to go to Wynnward. It was a private school. They ate a lot of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. It meant the world. 

[00:07:59] Dori Durbin: [00:08:00] Yeah. I can totally see your mom up late trying to find out information behind your back quietly.

[00:08:05] Dori Durbin: So flash forward a few years. Now this story comes together here. We're in today's time and you've got this book. So tell me what was the process from going from. Not being able to read to creating actual kids book and either of you can answer this one. I'll 

[00:08:28] Jon Greenberg: briefly say the book part and then mom can complete the rest.

[00:08:33] Jon Greenberg: Mom had an idea for a children's book for a while. So credit goes to her in a lot of respect, but the main ignition point was ironically COVID specifically the lockdown. I was an art student in college then and found myself back at home, which was not ideal, especially when an art teacher [00:09:00] for a figure drawing class was like, I'm sorry, you're going to have to write an essay.

[00:09:06] Jon Greenberg: Which isn't exactly what you signed up for. So I decided to put my talents to something that I could actually use. And then mom suggested, why don't we do a book? And the two just intersected perfectly. And I'll let mom complete some of the basic ideas for the, how we got to this concept of the book.

[00:09:34] Lynn Greenberg: We, we had gone back and forth about it. And during COVID, I was, FaceTiming with my grandchildren and I was reading to them. So we said, let's do a children's book. And John's characters are lovely and whimsical. And we said, how would it be? How would we show a dyslexic character and then we started talking about Thomas the tank engine and veered [00:10:00] off and we ended up talking about, a cab has to drive and learn directions.

[00:10:06] Lynn Greenberg: How would he do it? And maybe he has friends who have other neurodivergent issues. Why don't we just start with a dyslexic taxi? Because we know that we know the subject. Yeah. And then maybe if it's anything, we can start adding other characters and other books and that's how we started. I really was 

[00:10:27] Dori Durbin: fascinated with this concept because I think when you think of a taxi, you think of somebody who.

[00:10:34] Dori Durbin: Should know exactly where they're going. And so I was like, that's brilliant because here you've got this job that they have to do, and they can't even tell where they need to go. But the premise was that the taxi normally ran through a route. Teen, like a routined area and then was asked to go beyond that to the airport then, right?

[00:10:55] Dori Durbin: And 

[00:10:56] Lynn Greenberg: then how would they figure that out? And as we have found, [00:11:00] so many dyslexics are not just super smart. They have very creative ways to work around their dyslexia, to get other people to help them. And we brought that into this book. What would happen if this taxi didn't go on his normal route and couldn't figure out where to go?

[00:11:19] Lynn Greenberg: How would we fix that? And we thought this would be a perfect platform to show children with dyslexia that they have superpowers. They just need to look for them. 

Oh, please. Excuse this interruption. When it comes to parenting, many parents struggle with whether or not they have the right answer. And you know, really that struggle is something we all share in common. And just like Jonathan and lid did, you could take your struggle and convert it into a kid's book that could help other families. Want to chat about it. Just listen at the end for the opportunity. Now, back to the podcast.

[00:11:56] Dori Durbin: So can you give me an example of how a dyslexic taxi would have creative ways of finding that help? 

[00:12:05] Jon Greenberg: Sure. So one of the things we did was...

[00:12:09] Jon Greenberg: I won't get into too much specifics, so spoilers, but when I was trying to find my way around, especially now in a city, that is one of the things I have to do. I might not look at the street signs as much as I look at the landmarks and just, I can memorize a route after going through it once or twice.

[00:12:36] Jon Greenberg: And so I use that more so than just, I look at Google maps or something the whole purpose of Robbie therefore taking a little bit of inspiration from me is that he uses the landmarks and can memorize the roots. 

[00:12:58] Dori Durbin: Gotcha. And that, is that  something you did daily at like in your just normal life then it sounds like?

[00:13:05] Jon Greenberg: As mom mentioned, I had a very specific set of memory skills in that, oh, I could remember the names of the Thomas the Tank Engine and that, that was it. If you showed me a photo, great. If you wanted me to spell it, no. In this case. We wanted to try, bringing across that to our characters, and another example was, I, for the longest time, could not figure out my lefts from my rights.

[00:13:37] Jon Greenberg: However, my mom came up with a great solution in that if you hold both hands out in front of you, you're, and make an L with both, The left hand is going to make an L and the right hand is going to not. So I would use that to figure out the right and left. And once again, that was something we thought creative solutions [00:14:00] to everyday problems.

[00:14:03] Dori Durbin: I think that's a great skill to teach kids in general is to, if they can learn both great, but if not one or the other is excellent, that's really cool. Okay. Dip back on your mom for a second, Lynn. Hi, I have to ask you, and I'm asking you because I'm just really curious.

[00:14:23] Dori Durbin: You were an attorney before. And so did that kind of fuel a little bit of that? That desire to help kids beyond even just your own kids. 

[00:14:36] Lynn Greenberg: When I was working as a lawyer I did a lot of family work and a good chunk of what I did was I worked pro bono for children who did not have representation, were in, the system.

[00:14:51] Lynn Greenberg: And I felt very strongly that they were an underrepresented group that, people did not take children seriously. They're [00:15:00] kids. They don't know. And I think that's terrible, because if you listen to children, they're pretty astute, most of them. And so yes, it definitely fueled, it fuels who I am.

[00:15:09] Lynn Greenberg: And, being a lawyer is part of my personality, my family will tell you. But I retired a long time ago when the kids were little. And then when I started driving John, it just did not work into our family plan. So I retired but it definitely fuels who I am. 

[00:15:27] Dori Durbin: Yeah. Yeah. That research component and that caring to create the children's book.

[00:15:33] Dori Durbin: And I think it's interesting, Jonathan, I don't know if you want to stay in the children's world forever, but I think it's very inspiring that you have this background and are creating art that is representative of who you are. And I think that's really amazing. Okay. I think Jonathan is going to read for us, so would you be willing to read us 30 seconds or so of Robby the Dyslexic Taxi and the Airport Adventure?

[00:15:58] Jon Greenberg: Sure, I would love to. [00:16:00] One second.

[00:16:02] Jon Greenberg: Every day in the city of Greensboro, a little taxi named Robby wakes up bright and early for work. He loves to get down to business.

[00:16:13] Jon Greenberg: Each morning, he makes sure he is clean as a whistle and that his tank is full before heading off to the creative cab company where he works. On the outside, Robbie looks like your everyday cab. However, there is a part of him that makes him different from other cabs, and so much more special. He is dyslexic.

[00:16:35] Jon Greenberg: He has trouble reading the signs he drives under, but he is the most creative little cab you'll ever meet. 

[00:16:42] Dori Durbin: Oh, and I always get so sad when my authors stop reading. 

[00:16:48] Dori Durbin: Sorry. I'm into story time now. Oh no. That's, I love it. I think. I think the way you set it up, it's a story that I want to find out what's coming [00:17:00] next.

[00:17:00] Dori Durbin: And you guys who are listening can't see this, but Lynn held up the cover and a few of the pages. And the art is just so entertaining and fun. I love the whimsical nature of it. So yeah okay. If you're not convinced that you need to read this book, you need to read this book. I'm just telling you, you need to check it out.

[00:17:20] Dori Durbin: Oh, yeah, absolutely. When you're thinking about people using your book. You're thinking about taking it into classrooms, taking it to parents, to adults and caregivers. What is the, what is one wish that you have as far as how they use the book or how they spend that time with the kids?

[00:17:39] Lynn Greenberg:  I think John and I have it from two points of view.

[00:17:45] Lynn Greenberg: I have it from the adult point of view, and I can speak to that. And John, from the kid's point of view, and for me, I want parents and educators to understand dyslexia a little bit better. Maybe they see something in their [00:18:00] child if they read this, or maybe they know someone and can talk to their children about what dyslexia is.

[00:18:07] Lynn Greenberg: And I have to say, the educators work real hard, but a lot of them do not understand dyslexia. And when John was little, his first grade teacher, before he switched schools, said to me, I don't understand. He can memorize the book. Why can't he read it? And I'm thinking, okay. You're an educator. So I think for me, the goal is to try to help the adults see maybe that the child isn't a problem, a sole learner, but maybe there's an issue that they should investigate further.

[00:18:40] Dori Durbin: Love that. I love that. How about for you, John? 

[00:18:45] Jon Greenberg: For the children's perspective, I felt a very personal connection to this for obvious reasons. I wanted to show Young children, both with and sometimes [00:19:00] undiagnosed dyslexia, that this wasn't something to be disheartened by, that, as mom mentioned earlier, it's a bit of a superpower in a lot of ways.

[00:19:16] Jon Greenberg: I wanted to give kids both that insight and show them that with the right support and effort, they can really accomplish anything their peers can and in some cases more. I just wanted to give them something to connect to. Which I would have loved to have had when I was their age. 

[00:19:44] Lynn Greenberg: I love that, 

[00:19:45] Dori Durbin: especially, I think, having that connection with somebody who has overcome and created something that they can enjoy and be encouraged by, that's huge.

[00:19:54] Dori Durbin: And I think that's that's, you both, I love the hearts that you're coming at this with. Now, have you been [00:20:00] able to go into classrooms and share your book yet? We have, 

[00:20:04] Lynn Greenberg: We did a book signing at a local bookstore and John actually went back to the school where he went and he was he'll be humble, but the kids were like clapping and can we have your autograph?

[00:20:16] Lynn Greenberg: It was, they were so proud that one of their own had accomplished this and it was terrific. It was really sweet. I have to say. So you feel like a 

[00:20:26] Dori Durbin: superstar, John, 

[00:20:29] Jon Greenberg: it was a feeling I had not set out to this wasn't the reason I'd done this. But it was amazing to feel like I had actually affected some people in such a positive manner.

[00:20:46] Jon Greenberg: It's a feeling I don't think I'll 

[00:20:47] Lynn Greenberg: ever forget. They were very cute. Everyone was like, this is amazing. Are you going to write more books? What's it going to be about? And so we said what do you think? And they're like, Oh, ADHD and this, [00:21:00] and it was, they all had a million ideas. So it was great.

[00:21:03] Lynn Greenberg: It was terrific. And we are starting our second book in the series. 

[00:21:08] Dori Durbin: That was my next question actually was if your audience is giving you ideas and if so, what your next one was. So are you able to share that or is that still top secret? I 

[00:21:21] Jon Greenberg: wouldn't say it's top secret. I would say it is still. We're still working on it, so it's not going to come out tomorrow by any stretch, but I will say our basic idea is that it's going to be a taxi set in this same universe that we're building, but it has ADHD.

[00:21:43] Jon Greenberg: and how it overcomes it. 

[00:21:46] Lynn Greenberg: We have found that a lot of dyslexic have things like ADHD. And so it seemed like a nice segue and the series is going to be called the Creative Cab Company because that's where all the cabs work and [00:22:00] all the people work. There are a lot of vehicles. So we decided to, they are creative people in cabs.

[00:22:06] Lynn Greenberg: So that's where they work. 

[00:22:08] Dori Durbin: I love that. And with so many different forms of dyslexia, it seems like you could amass quite a group of books by the time you're done. 

[00:22:17] Lynn Greenberg: Absolutely. That's our goal. 

[00:22:20] Dori Durbin: Yeah. Your character's cute too, like in the sense of like, When I first saw it, I thought of like an animation almost, I'll throw that out there and bring it back.

[00:22:30] Dori Durbin: Because I know you got to get the 2nd book time, throw 

[00:22:33] Lynn Greenberg: it out to the universe. Hopefully, see what comes back. That's great. Thank you. I really did. 

[00:22:38] Dori Durbin: Yeah. Yeah. I could totally see that. I just, it. Came to me right away Oh, this could be a series and animated series would be really cute.

[00:22:46] Dori Durbin: I think that the fact that you had such positive feedback from the kids, whether you were looking for it or not, is just validation that the book is valuable. It's something that they connected with and something that [00:23:00] they will probably reread and reread down the road.

[00:23:02] Dori Durbin: And so that to me means. That they're going to use this book as a functional tool, and I would say probably the more, airtime you get, the more people will know about that and be able to use it. So if there was 1 encouragement. That you would give a child, and this is gonna have to be for you, John.

[00:23:21] Dori Durbin: When, if they discovered that they had dyslexia, what would be the encouragement that you could give them?

[00:23:27] Jon Greenberg: Do not think you are lesser for having this. You are not. You are smart. You are intelligent. You can accomplish anything that you set your mind to.

[00:23:40] Jon Greenberg: It will not be easy, but if you can overcome the hurdles that you find yourself in front of, you will find yourself. In a much more positive position than you could ever possibly imagine. [00:24:00] Never give up. Never think less of yourself. You're special. Never forget that. 

[00:24:14] Dori Durbin: That's awesome. And how about for you, Lynn?

[00:24:16] Dori Durbin: How about for the parents who find out that their child has dyslexia? What can you encourage them with? 

[00:24:22] Lynn Greenberg: The first thing I would definitely say is listen to your gut and listen to your child. Don't listen to the noise out there. Really listen to what your child is telling you. And, the school, wherever the school, wherever your school district is, some schools have great programs, some don't.

[00:24:44] Lynn Greenberg: Sometimes you need a plan. Find out what you need. to help advocate for your child. I think it's really important. Don't let people tell you what to do. Really go and advocate for your child. If that means, doing a little bit of [00:25:00] battle with the teacher, doing some explanation, whatever it is, find the tools, find the resources and do whatever it takes.

[00:25:08] Lynn Greenberg: Because in the end, you really want your child to grow up and feel good about themselves. And. This is the place. That's the place to start is at school. So really advocate for your child 

[00:25:23] Dori Durbin: It's perfect great advice from both of you. So when they're ready to come get your book Where can they find it easily and how can they contact you?

[00:25:34] Lynn Greenberg: They can you anyone can buy the book on Amazon Barnes and Noble comm any of the places you buy books You can find it Robbie the Dyslexic Taxi in the Airport Adventure. We also have a website. We are on social media as the Creative Cab Company. They can DM us TikTok a little, not TikTok, Twitter a little or X, whatever it's called now, sorry.[00:26:00] 

[00:26:00] Lynn Greenberg: And that's not my, that, that's more John. Not my expertise, but. We're definitely on all platforms and social media. And we do have a website. We'd love to hear from everybody, anybody. So 

[00:26:12] Dori Durbin: yeah. Jonathan, you have your own site too, for your art, right? 

[00:26:17] Jon Greenberg: Yes. I have a site called creationairarts.

[00:26:20] Jon Greenberg: com. It is a bit of a mouthful, but it is C R E A T I O N A I R E arts, A R T S dot com. That's where I post a bunch of my work and hopefully was I am in Chicago doing this graduate program. I Will be posting more in the future 

[00:26:45] Dori Durbin: I am sure both of you are going to come up with some fabulous things and Jonathan I'm sure they're gonna teach you so much you were gonna fill that area up Just with all new art.

[00:26:56] Dori Durbin: So it has been just great hearing about your book and getting to know [00:27:00] both of you. And I just want to thank you for your time today. 

[00:27:03] Lynn Greenberg: Thank you so much for having us. Yeah. So wonderful. Thank you. 

[00:27:10] Dori Durbin: Thank you both.