00: 28--Dori Durbin
Hello and welcome to The Power of Kids', Books, where we believe that books are a catalyst to inspire and empower change. Today is an expert edition and you know, on the podcasts I like to discover what it is that professionals would love for kids to know before they come to them, and they can use these as tools to grow and change. So today on my show, I have an amazingly gifted and driven woman who is a psych, a child psychologist, a parent coach, the founder of Secure Child Center for Families and Children in Montreal, Canada, and she also created the Positive Parenting Course.

00:30 - Dr. Tamara Soles 
Thank you, thank you so much for having me.

00:33 - Dori Durbin 
I'm just delighted to have you and I have this feeling that we have a lot of similar interests,

00:38 - Dr. Tamara Soles 
Yes.

 
00:38 - Dori Durbin 
As far as focusing for parents. So uh, can you give us just a little bit of your background? And especially I know that you started really investigating psychology early in life and I think that's super interesting.

00:50 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes. Yeah, I mean 1st of all for many reasons actually. But I was a kid who grew up in a rather intense home to say the least, and so intense feelings were around me often and I loved to escape into books. It's one of the shared interests that we have. Books serve such an incredible function for me. But also my connections. I have always said that I have harnessed the power of connection to help people thrive. That's how I've built my business. But it really helped me thrive as a kid. And so, connections to friends, connections to family members.

1:26 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

And one of my best friends from early on, who's still my closest friend and also a psychologist, has had a grandfather who was a quite renowned neuropsychologist. And in Herr Home, she always had the textbooks from her grandfather that he had written, and we would look through them together as kids, and we would take the color blindness test and learn about this and learn about that. And so I've always been interested in psychology and always wedding that with my interest in kids.

1:56 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

I think I was trying to babysit kids from the time that I could stand upright and hold other kids. So it was just a very natural combination for me of taking that you desire to nurture and advocate and care for kids. Along with the interest in how the brain works.

2:14 - Dori Durbin 

That's awesome. I can just imagine you laying on the floor with these books open around, the two of you kind of challenging each other to different tests and

2:19 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes.

2:23 - Dori Durbin 

Information I love that enthusiasm for just digging into content or digging into a passion, and I'm assuming your parents encourage you to do that.

2:34 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

yes I mean I think thankfully I was a very naturally curious child which I think all children are I think sometimes there are things that happen that discourage that along the way but like my parents were very happy when they saw me pursuing the things that I was interested in and they just very much allowed me to be me and I was a very independent kid and they just allowed that to flourish and grow for which I'm very grateful that they did yes.

2:59 - Dori Durbin 

That's awesome. It could have been a wholely different career had that not happened.

3:05 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

One hundred percent.

3:07 - Dori Durbin 

Absolutely so okay, So connectedness is a piece that is key to you.

3:13 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes.

3:13 - Dori Durbin 

So do you see times in your practice or otherwise where maybe families are feeling like they're connected, but really there's not that G. Genuine connectedness is more an appearance rather than an actual reality.

3:28 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Absolutely. And I think it's not just problem for a family, but it's a societal problem. I think that so many families are just struggling to get by often have two parents working, which I have absolutely nothing against. I want everyone to do what makes sense for them and for their family. But because of the lack of support in general that families have, it means that many parents just find themselves in these task manager roles where the times that they're with their kids, so much of it is spent either getting them ready to get out of the house or coming back in and doing homework and getting ready for bed or to an activity.

4:08 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

And so so much time is absorbed in the doing as opposed to being together. And I think that's just a reality for so many families. And they may, as you say, feel connected, but they don't necessarily have that time to just be with each other and really deepen that connection. They may have a good relationship certainly, but to have that deep connection that allows family life to go more smoothly and allows parents to step away from that task manager role a bit, that's lacking for a lot of families.

4:42 - Dori Durbin 

You know, okay, so I'm gonna give you a scenario here because I can't think of how else to it. So if somebody's in the middle of task managing or they feel like they're connected, how would they be able to tell that they're not? Again, you know, you've got the situation where mom is, she's in the nose, She knows, you know, comings and goings of everyone and their time schedules and things like that. How does she know if she's really connected to the kids in the emotional level?

5:12 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

That's a great question. I think this a lot of different ways to know. One would just be if you feel like you are Um, just highly stressed a lot. Like the interactions as you're moving about these tasks, if they feel fraught, like you're pressured, you know, this time pressure of come on, hurry up, you know, if you feel that your tone is often in this what I always call top down, control based approach, right, where we're just telling them what to do, come on, let's go. You got to do this, you got to do that.

5:44 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

When we have that tone, that's a pretty good sign that we're not in connection. Whereas, you know, what we strive to do is to empower our kids, our whole family to be able to navigate that on their own, to the, to the level of, you know, responsibility and you know, ability that they can. But we might be saying things like it's Thursday today, what do you have at school today? And so that we're starting to prime them to think about what they have to get ready and we can stay in connection when we're not lecturing and when we're not, you know, dictating their next steps, right?

6:20 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

So, so that's one just how you go about that. Are we nurturing, are we asking questions, Are we, you know what I call scaffolding, which is kind of building from where they're at, right? So when my kids were little,

6:31 - Dori Durbin 

Yep.

6:33 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

I'm not going to ask my kindergartner, like, what do you have today, right? They're, they're not gonna be at that level. But I might have, as I did with my kids, little chalkboard with pictures of the days that they had special things like library or phys. And so we would look and say, okay, do you see something on there? And is there something special you need to take to school on those days when you see that picture? So we scaffold based on the level of development that our children are at and then help them to develop that independence so that we're not in that task manager role.

7:06 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Because for many families especially, you know, two parent mom and dad sort s gender house. Told The women are often the ones who are carrying this emotional labor and engaging in this mental load, and at the same time that's to the detriment of that person, but also to our children. We need to empower them to be able to do these things. So that's one way to know that maybe there's some disconnection because my role is so focused on just getting everybody to do the things they need to do.

7:38 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

And then we also look at is there a lott of power struggle is there a lot of conflict in the home and is there a lot of pushback because often of course it's natural for kids to push back no child is going to collaborate one hundred percent of the time but when it's happening a lot that's a good sign that there's also maybe something off with the connection that we could look at strengthening for sure.

8:03 - Dori Durbin 

Yeah, and it's interesting that you're talking in terms of aging, you know, the ages too, with the kids. I think I'm just thinking back to my kids when they were really little. I think I felt like I had to be a task manager because they weren't communicating how they felt or they weren't able to articulate what they needed because I was making all those decisions. And then that probably kind of follows you to some point where you have to make that reality check of like, they actually do have these options and can make these decisions,

8:35 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes.

9:36 - Dori Durbin 

yeah.

9:36 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes, and I agree with you that so often we fall into that habit of just doing for or just telling and sometimes not realizing that they're probably capable of, of doing these as long as we make the appropriate modifications for wherever their particular developmental stage is at, right? Some children at nine are completely independent and know what to bring and do, and they have their own schedule. And some kids at twelve and 13 are still gonna needed you asking those questions like what do you have today?

10:07 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

So each child is on their own trajectory. But I think you're right that we often fall into a habit or feel somehow that it's Easier if we're just keeping everybody on schedule,

10:17 - Dori Durbin 

Helping We're helping them,

11:19 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

so to speak.

11:21 - Dori Durbin 

right?

12:22 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes, exactly, exactly.

12:24 - Dori Durbin 

that by the definition of like a helicopter parent trying to like control everything they can control to, I mean that's probably extreme, but but yeah, the natural desire for parents to make their lives, the kids lives as good as they possibly can and so.

12:40 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes, yes, and it's self perpetuating in that sense that when we over function as parents, we teach our kids to under function and so it's a cycle that we get into and not just with our children, with our partners also, you know, the more that we over function and take over some of what could be our partners responsibilities that our partner under functions also. So really being aware of where we can shift that over functioning and under functioning cycle can be helpful.

13:06 - Dori Durbin 

All right. So let's say you're in a scenario that you're stuck and your kid or your partner, whichever is easier, to talk about underperforming for you.

13:14 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yeah.

13:19 - Dori Durbin 

and so how do you go about redirecting that without causing more chaos and And more of a power struggle.

13:27 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

I think 1st of all, you know, I'll say it even as a mom, when, when I've had those conversations with my kids, I might start off by. Saying what I notice, right? I love certain words as parents, I notice, I wonder, I'm curious. Those are, I think, very powerful phrases. So I might say something like I notice that lately every time we've been getting ready for school, I'm the one who's saying don't forget your library book and don't forget that. And I find that that makes me frustrated.

13:55 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

And it also makes you frustrated because you're hearing me nag, nag, nag. And nobody wants to hear my voice more than they already do. And so I might have that conversation with them about what do you think we could do instead, right? And again, So we're inviting collaboration and, but we're setting the stage for here's a problem, here's how the problem impacts all of us. It's not just me, it's not my problem, but this is how it's impacting all of us. Allow room for them to share their feelings like yeah, you're really annoying.

14:23 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Okay, yes, no problem, right? And then say, okay, so how do we solve this? And then maybe they have some ideas, Maybe I say I have a few ideas, you wanna hear them? And then we talk about what could work. And I'm always about experimenting. So I might say, should we experiment with this for a week and see how that goes? And then we can tweak And it's very different than coming, you know, frustrated and being like, I'm fed up of doing this, I'm not doing this anymore, you're on your own, right?

14:52 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Which I think we've probably all been there at some point in time with something when we want to Make that constructive change in a way that again is less likely to, increase conflict. That's one way to go about it.

15:08 - Dori Durbin 

I like that because it's giving them the option to step in or it's giving them the option to increase the nagging really. I mean, like there's,

15:17 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes,

15:17 - Dori Durbin 

there's a definite choice there.

15:18 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

right. Yes,

15:19 - Dori Durbin 

you don't like this, then maybe you like this better and we'll all be happier ultimately.

15:22 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

yes. Exactly, exactly. And we talk often about like when, when I'm happier, when I have more energy, what does that do for us as a family, right? It means we get to have more time to play board games or we get to have more time just cuddling on the couch or whatever it might be, because I am not as emotionally tapped out as when I am drained from carrying this emotional load for everybody.

15:51 - Dori Durbin 

Yeah, you brought up something really interesting. I, I was going to ask you, how? If you have specific activities that you feel draw families to be more connected, so keep that on your brain. But the other end of that is what if you have kids that come home and they act out because they've done everything they can all day long to hold themselves together and home is like proof, the explosion and you want connected time and there I've been over connected all day,

16:14 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes.

16:19 - Dori Durbin 

so where, where do you go with things like that?

16:20 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes. great question. So especially using my psychologist lens, what I don't want to do is normalize the fact that kids should be so depleted at school because I think that's dangerous and I think that schools, many schools are just not set up well for kids and how kids learn. And so my 1st step would be rather than just accepting the fact that there's gonna be less connection because they're drained is advocating at school. So do they need more movement breaks? Do they need to incorporate some deep breathing during the day at school?

16:58 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Do they need to You know, have a longer recess or whatever it might be. But I would start there because again, otherwise we're just trying to solve a problem in a way that doesn't actually solve the real problem. So that would be where I would start, would be trying to advocate for some change. Does for, for the child at school. Maybe they need some sensory strategies that can help them, right? Some noise canceling headphones or a quiet space that they can go to as they're starting to get overwhelmed, whatever it might be.

17:29 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

And then we can talk about how to shift some things at home. One thing I know that many of us, as parents tend to do, is just pepper our children with questions as soon as they, you know, are in our site. We want to know how it went, what they did, what they ate, who fought with whom, and all of us. And so there is, I think, some acknowledgement of just allowing a bit of space before engaging in some of those and and asking some of those questions in, in a way that doesn't sound like you're just asking for a play by play of the day, right?

18:01 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

So whats something that surprised you about today? You know, what was something that you was unexpected? What was something that felt good or made you feel confident today? What was something you failed at today? Asking different kinds of questions that really deep in the connection, as opposed to What did you eat for lunch? Or You know, what did you do every recess? And don't get me wrong. I'm guilty of asking those questions too, sometimes, but But giving the time and, and knowing when, you know, a lot of kids, their best time of opening up is at bedtime, right?

18:34 - Dori Durbin 

No.

18:34 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

And that's when they're like ready to spill, you know, all the te what's happened, and be more vulnerable about their feelings. It's so much easier to do that when you're in a dark room side by side instead of staring at somebody. So there are ways of finding reconnection. But to your other question, I also like to think about the fact that listen. Play is a great way of connecting with your child for sure, but not every parent feels comfortable playing in in that same way. Many parents don't have the experience of having their parent play with them, and so it can be a little bit of a barrier for some parents.

18:14 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

They're like, I don't want to get on the floor. I don't want to, you know, play with dolls or I don't want to do this and that's okay. You don't have to do those things. You can find other ways of connecting. So I always talk about being playful as opposed to just thinking about play.

So, you know, you can be playful with your children, you can be affectionate, you know, it's still meaningful. It's not just about quantity of time, but you know, are you kind of rushing through, are you stopping? You know, one of the 3rd things I do still thankfully, my children still let me, you know, when they come home from school is just snuggle on the couch for a few minutes and they are not going to enjoy listening to this when they're older,

19:56 - Dori Durbin 

I won't tell anybody. We'll it secret.

 20:01 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

but they still they still kind of allow that, and even though there are almost ten and that in and of itself it doesn't have to be long, but it's just a ritual. And rituals again are a great way of deepening connection. So whether it's reading a book together at bedtime or after school, or that ritual of a certain kind of a hug or certain thing you say to each other, or even just having, you know, a tea together when you get home or a snack together, rituals deepen relationships. So that's another way to inject that connection in.

20:37 - Dori Durbin 

interesting. I, it's, it's funny. Mine are both older, both my kids. I have a high school senior and then a student. It's sophomore. My goodness, in college and uh, it's so funny because when he's away and he comes home sometimes I'll be sitting on my chair and he'll come and sit on me. Now that was fine.

20:56 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

I love it.

20:56 - Dori Durbin 

When he was ten He's a little bigger now, but I don't fight it because I'm like, he just wants that attachment and that closeness and uh,

21:04 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes.

21:06 - Dori Durbin 

you know, my initial reaction though, as a parent who is concerned, you know, and trying to think through maybe too much was, oh gosh, I shouldn't let him do that. He's, you know, an adult basically and I shouldn't probably cross over and, but it's also that maternal instinct kicks in. I'm like, oh man. And he wants to snuggle with me. It's so sweet,

21:27 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes, yes, a hundred percent.

21:28 - Dori Durbin 

you know.

21:29 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

So glad.

21:31 - Dori Durbin 

Yeah, and I think that's probably the case with your ten year olds too. There's probably not an age where you have to like say, okay, you know, you're, you're big, you need to go. I, I want that relationship where they feel comfortable like that.

21:44 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I still, you know, my parents live a little less than an hour away and sometimes we'll walk down this main streett in the kind of small town that they live in, and I love holding my mom's hand, walking down the street, you know, sometimes. And we still seek that connection as adults. And that physical connection for many people is still absolutely, you know, enjoyable and comforting at any age.

22:11 - Dori Durbin 

And I love the idea of the routine too, because I think we, we tend to fall into routine just like we said. And if it's a routine where you're intentionally creating time to have the opportunity to connect, that's really cool, you know, to. Find that time. It probably doesn't take that long, right?

22:29 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

It doesn't. And I would argue that if you can't find that time, then something needs to be restructured in, in your day. Maybe there are too many activities going on, maybe you're overcomplicating something, right? So something's got to give. Like if you can't find 10 min, you know, to connect in some way, probably something needs to be adjusted, maybe you need some added support in some way, or maybe something schedule wise needs to change. But yes, that that time should be there in some way, shape or form.

22:03 - Dori Durbin 

I was thinking about the bedtime reading. Maybe it's just going into the room earlier so that you have more time at the top end of that.

22:08 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Exactly.

22:10 - Dori Durbin 

I always thought my kids were trying to get away with staying up later, but you're right, it was kind of like the, the lights would go down and it was like everything opened up and

22:19 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

I think the staying up later is just an added bonus.

22:23 - Dori Durbin 

I'm ready to talk now. I know you're about ready right now.

22:25 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

22:30 - Dori Durbin 

If you have a child who Maybe is not shy, is able to very articulately express what they need and feel and want, but maybe that controls the family. How do you cope with that?

22:47 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

that's a that's a great one and something that I see a lot in my practice for sure and I think that there are listen every child has their own needs but I also think it's important to model that we have our needs as parents too and sometimes for example I'm very auditorily sensitive so I get very overwhelmed with a lot of noise and so sometimes that you know with kids that happens but then I try to find out what I can do for myself rather than expecting them to, you know, change or be quiet. So I might say I'm gonna go over here and do some work for a little bit.

23:27 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

I'm going to have my noise canceling headphones on for a little bit, but you know, you can come to me if you need me. So there's ways of still getting your needs met. But on the other side of that, sometimes kids can be a whole lot, in part because they're getting what we call dysregulated, right? So they're getting a little bit out of sorts. So it's, you know, it's gone from maybe a little active to now a little bit too much. And so as parents that can be helpful to notice that pattern. And if we see that kids start to get a little bit too rambunctious or a little bit too worked up, then we can think about what strategies can we use that, you know, my child responds to that can help them kind of come back to that just right zone as opposed to being a little over active. So for a lott of kids I like to use sensory strategies that give their bodies and brains what we call proprioception which is sort of how our information you know comes through our muscles and joints for example and where we are in space so one of my favorite activities is to do like a wheelbarrow walk where they're you know using their hands on the floor and we're holding their legs up and walking them around it's a great exercise because it causes a lot of sort of input their to their body and it's very regulating for a lot of kids and so again when we start to notice these patterns of when they get a little bit too rambunctious let's say or or worked up we can start to try to redirect them in some way to bring them back and maybe that means asking them to run outside and play soccer in the backyard or you know to do some wall push ups or to do something like that but you know there are ways of noticing when this just heightened activity is now becoming you know at risk of becoming problematic because when kids are dysregulated, they're also more likely to melt down, more likely to have conflict.

24:24 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

So we want to try to nip that in the bun too, if we can.

24:28 - Dori Durbin 

I didn't know that about wheelbarrows. I That makes a lot of sense though, because you're having to, you're basically upside down, having to redirect your body, right?

24:37 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

And it's the, when you're walking on your hands, it's a lot, of weight, sort of being pushed against your hands and it takes a lot of management of your core, you know, to kind of keep yourself straight as you're doing that as opposed to just flopping down. It's almost like being in a push up while walking, but you have the support of somebody. So because it's giving so much of that input and you're using so many muscles in that way, it can be, can be regulating for many kids and it's fun.

25:06 - Dori Durbin 

That's a neat trick. So they're Yeah, and you're helping them too, so they have to have somebody assisting. So that's, that's really a neat idea,

25:15 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

And I like to make it.

25:16 - Dori Durbin 

love it.

25:17 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Blit Thank you that you know that this is also a calming thing. Like this is not some secret hack that we do without telling them. Because when we collaborate with them, then when they start to notice that they're getting dysregulated, then they can ask, you know, mommy, can you do wheelbarrow for me? And that's when we're really planting the seeds of self regulation, right? When they're starting to notice these changes in their own body and brain and that they can then ask for these activities or strategies that are calming.

25:46 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

So absolutely just let them in on that process. And it's a fun strategy, but it's still a strategy.

25:52 - Dori Durbin 

I like the fact that you're not hiding it from them because I was actually wondering, okay, so do you tell them or do you not tell them what's going on? But that makes a lot of sense to teach them how to regulate.

26:02 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

exactly, And we can ask them questions like what do you notice about your body after we do that? Or do you feel, how do you feel after we do that? Do you feel calmer than before? All right. And again, because it's individual, it's important to ask because not everyone is necessarily going to be calmed by that. But yes, letting them in on the process, you know, we don't have to be the parents who know all and do all. We could, you know, invite them into that process for sure.

26:29 - Dori Durbin 

You've been doing this for 15 years, right?

26:32 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

yeah, a little more actually.

26:33 - Dori Durbin 

More than 15.

26:33 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yeah, I think 17 or so now, yeah.

26:36 - Dori Durbin 

Okay, and so over those years have you noticed, specific changes like, Has have there been elements of life or elements of relationships that you've noticed have changed over the last 15 years in families?

26:53 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

That's a great question. I think that, the number of referrals that we get for anxiety has definitely gone up, so I don't know. Whether that means anxiety is actually rising, although we have some data to support that. But certainly families are seeking out services more often because of anxiety and I think there's lots of reasons for that. And one of the things that we know is for instance, kids who are in high achieving contacts, high achieving schools have now been officially designated as an at risk group, and so on.

27:29 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

On the level of kids with poverty and trauma and we know that these kids are at heightened risk for anxiety, for depression, and for, you know, challenging behaviors as well. And so I think that the more pressure we put on kids to achieve at school and to go to so called good schools to get into so called good colleges or good universities, you know, which I have a lot of issues with. But you know, the more that we are putting those kinds of pressures on kids, we're seeing it come out in their behavior.

28:05 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

And we also know from the research that that focus on grades doesn't actually improve academic functioning, in fact, it worsens it. So we're seeing the impact of a lott of families, really feeling like they're doing their children a service by hyper focusing on success in school and academic success. But we're definitely seeing impact of that. And then there's social media, you know, 17 years ago I was not having tick tock conversations with any parents. So that has certainly changed and complicated the landscape in lots of ways.

28:41 - Dori Durbin 

Do you think it's contributed to the anxiety?

28:44 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Undoubtedly, I mean, I think there's been a lot of benefit in many ways. Social media has certainly we can disseminate parents information to parents much quicker and, and easier. And I work with a lot of neurodivergent kids as well and, and adults and The fact that there are very easy ways to identify sort of neurodivergent spaces and connect with each other on social media has been wonderful. Flip side is How many Not just teens, but certainly teens are. Suffering from the comparisons that they're seeing, you know, when they're looking at filtered photos or just the highlight reels of artificial lives, and that we're definitely seeing an impact for sure.

29:35 - Dori Durbin 

It's so complicated. I You know, sometimes you think parenting in this time has to be so hard. But I think it's more that we are just more aware of, so much more. Our parents probably dealt with some of the same issues, but they're just like so much more in our face now that, it's just easier to be in states where you are. Anticipating comparison and perfection and all of those qualities that you know are, it seem to be so important. Even the academics, like you said, you know, trying to get into the best of this, the best that all of those pieces, yeah.

30:13 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Exactly,

30:14 - Dori Durbin 

Oh, yeah, it's complicated for sure.

30:16 - Dori Durbin 

it's complicated, a poor kid.

30:18 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes,

30:19 - Dori Durbin 

That's why we need these podcasts.

30:21 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

yes, right, yeah.

30:24 - Dori Durbin 

Well, so we have just a few minutes left. But I wanted to ask you. So from your professional experiences, what do you wish kids knew long before they ever came to you? So what should parents be equipping them with?

30:40 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

I think one of the things that stands out to me most is just how much, as a society, we are uncomfortable with uncomfortable emotions and We all know many adults who struggle with navigating uncomfortable feelings and so just don't they avoid them in all kinds of ways that are mala adaptive, right? Whatever they see is whether it's substance use or shopping or whatever it may be, but just finding ways of avoiding that feeling. And so what I so wish is that Parents were able to model and actively discuss with kids that all emotions are okay, some are comfortable, some are uncomfortable, but there's space for all of those emotions and that we can get through them.

30:29 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Because being able to see that you can get through a difficult emotion means you're less likely to try to avoid it, right? So when I know and I trust that this anxiety You know, if I find a way of moving through it with my coping skills or whatever, that I'll feel better. On the other side, it'll mean that I'll avoid it less, right? Or if I'm so afraid of my anger that I just keep suppressing it, that's gonna come out in very harmful ways. So. Being able to trust that I can feel angry and that's okay.

31:00 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

There are certain things I can't do when I'm angry, I can't hurt people, I can't hurt things. But that when those feelings are allowed to have a place and be witnessed and held by other people, that we can move through those with, with strategies and, and skills. So that would be something. You know, if they came to me already equipped with the knowledge that they can navigate emotions, I think we'd be, you know, miles ahead in our work for sure.

31:30 - Dori Durbin 

I can, I can totally see that because they probably come to you so guarded that it takes a while to break through that.

 31:36 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

guarded, and also You know, I think for a lot of parents it's hard to seee our kids feeling big emotions for lots of reasons. Obviously as parents we don't want our kids upset, right? So there's just that, that parental instinct of I don't want you upset, so I want to try to make you feel better, which is not really something that should be a goal per se. I know that's kind of a strange thing to say, but we want them to get better at feeling, not to feel better. And so. Sometimes just as parents, we try to, you know, if a young kid is having a kid is having a tantrum, we try to shut it down as quickly as possible as opposed to just kind of helping them move through it.

32:14 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Or it might be that those kinds of feelings were not allowed. You know for us when we were little, and so our bodies and brains have understood that this pattern is an unsafe pattern. So when we see it in our children, our natural instinct is to shut it down, because that was never a safe thing to do for ourselves. So being able to repair that, and to have compassion for our younger selves, who may not have had the space for those things, and then be able to give that to our children, can be very appealing and powerful for both us and for them.

32:46 - Dori Durbin 

We established that connectedness that we started with at the very beginning.

32:49 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

hundred percent. Exactly, exactly. That's a great callback.

32:53 - Dori Durbin 

Love.

32:54 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Ties it all up.

32:56 - Dori Durbin 

Well, there's one more thing I definitely want to talk about, obviously where they can reach you. But also before you tell me that, tell me more about your programm, your No more power struggles programm.

33:08 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes, so the No More Power Stroke program, it's an online parenting program, it's video based, and we go through six different modules to really help shift the landscape of families. And we really look at all the things that I talk about with families, usually in my 1st, like two months of working with them. So we're looking at what are the foundations like, what's your relationship like, are you using strategies that are going to make things worse, like threatening and punishment?

33:34 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

And things that we know from research are not effective. You know, what is their sleep look like, what does their activity level look like, You're, how are you managing schedules? Even practical things like I talked about before, about how do we encourage responsibility? And then talking very clearly about how do we plant the seeds of self regulation, what are the things that we do? And then because parents always want scripts, even though I, you know, I talk about it being a way of looking at parenting, but understandably, parents are like, that's great, but tell me what to say when.

34:08 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

So there's all kinds of those too, but it's really meant to just do the same kinds of things that I work with them for the 1st few months and just reimagining how they think about discipline how they think about relationships and the natural consequence of that is increase harmony in your family and unless power struggles. So I did that as a way to Sort make these strategies more accessible to families because my clinic is full, it's, you know, we've always been full and it's hard to, and it's more, more expensive certainly to know, come to see a psychologist to work on these things.

34:44 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

So I created it because I thought I'm talking about these same things over and over again with families, why not put it in a way that is more accessible? So, so that's what that is.

 34:54 - Dori Durbin 

I love that. I love that. And that's on your website. Or where do they find that?

 34:57 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes, exactly, on my website, exactly.

35:00 - Dori Durbin 

Go ahead and tell us your website.

35:02 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

yes so it's doctor tamara souls dot com so doctor just dr doctor tamara souls dot com.

35:08 - Dori Durbin 

and Are you on social media at all?

35:11 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Yes my handle is the same across all so it's doctor tamra soles on instagram is where I am most um so yes in Facebook as well, but that's where I am most.

36:22 - Dori Durbin 

fantastic. Well, we want to make it simple and easy for them to get a hold of you and start making changes in their family so that everyone feels appreciated and connected. So that's great.

36:32 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Well, thank you.

36:34 - Dori Durbin 

Thank you so much. Tamera. You had so much great information. I can't wait for people to see this.

36:40 - Dr. Tamara Soles 

Well, thank you for having me. This is such a fun conversation. I appreciate all that you do as well, so thank you.

36:45 - Dori Durbin 

Thank you.