00:00:05

Dori Durbin 

Hello and welcome to the Power of Kids Books, where we believe books are a catalyst to inspire and empower change. I'm your host, Dori Durbin. As a parent who has a kid experiencing a problem, do you ever wish that they could have an expert teach your kids what it is that they need to know before they even had the issue? Today we are speaking to a woman who is a certified pediatric sleep consultant and the founder of Babes and Beyond Pediatric Sleep Consulting. She has been equipping families with kids aged newborn to twelve with tools that have to encourage amazing sleepers Life.

Dori Durbin 

Maybe the parents can catch some extra sleep from this as well. So Welcome Kim Davis.

Kim Davis 

Thank you. It's it's so fun to be here today to talk about sleep. I'm super excited.

Dori Durbin 

I am too. This is like a topic that I as an adult struggle with. So I'm sure that a lot of people relate to this topic. So could you give us a little bit of background as far as what you do and um, what exactly a sleep consultant is?

00:00:51
Kim Davis 

For sure, I, I'd love to. So um, like, like you said, my name is Kim Davis and I'm a pediatric sleep consultant. I've been a sleep consultant for the last ten years, helping families navigate through their own personal sleep journeys. And uh, I have two lovely children, a boy and a girl, happily married for 18 years, and I am based out of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, and I'm just loving every moment of helping families, just search through their, their sleep challenges and uh, find those solutions that work for their families.

Dori Durbin 

That's perfect, perfect. And you know, I know as adults we can allow ourselves to get crazy busy and sometimes we suck our kids into that as well.

Kim Davis 

does me.

Dori Durbin 

So it's easy for us to dismiss the fact that sleep is really important.

Kim Davis 

Yes.

Dori Durbin 

Are there some facts, you know, whether it's brain or health facts, as far as why parents should really make this a key focus of their parenting?

00:01:55
Kim Davis 

Yes, it certainly needs to be a priority. Just, you know, in the last few years a perfect example is Covid, right? And, and what was happening around the world. And when our bodies don't sleep, our immune system starts to break down. That's the biggest one. And we need sleep to heal our bodies and to keep our bodies healthy and strong. So, you know, just knowing what's going on in the world, that really should be a priority to keep us safe and healthy. For that. In regards to children and not getting enough sleep, you're definitely going to see a big difference in their development, whether it be physical or mental development.

Kim Davis 

When I work with families, we, we tend to see big changes in their motor skills and, and their brain development because all of a sudden their brains are like, yes, this is what I needed, this is what I needed to start crawling, this is what I needed to start rolling. And all of those brain connections happen when we're sleeping. That's the time when our body heals, that's the time when our body has, you know, makes our memories, makes all the brain connections that we need. So it is a vital part of our survival is sleep.

Kim Davis 

And I wish I could show that from the rooftops because I think today's society we almost take pride in not getting a lot of sleep. Like, oh, I don't need a lot of sleep. I can go off, you know, 6 h. You may be able to for short term, but that's gonna catch up with you in, in the long runn your body is gonna start to tell you, hey, this is not working. Your, your concentration is definitely gonna suffer, Your health is gonna suffer, cardiovascular, health is gonna suffer when you don't get enough sleep and I just wish that people would really put that in the forefront and make that a priority for their families.

Kim Davis 

And, and you' seee the difference, right? Everybody's gonna be happier, every, everybody's gonna be in a better mood when, when you're sleeping. And I went through that personally that for two and a half years with my son, I was so sleep deprived my entire The world crumbled around me. And when I think about, you know, what we went through as a family, it wasn't just my son being affected by not sleeping, it was me, it was his sister, it was, it was his dad. Everything in our family changed because we weren't sleeping and when we did start sleeping.

Kim Davis 

Wow, the family was a much happier family in all respects. My health improved, everything, my mental health improved drastically because that's a big thing too, when you don't get enough sleep, you, you just can't function, you, you honestly can't function. So yeah, super important, super important.

Dori Durbin 

I never thought about the effects on the rest of the family too, really. I mean it does.

Kim Davis 

It does.

Dori Durbin 

It affects the family dynamics. The emotions probably are a lot higher.

Kim Davis 

Oh, patience. Not there.

Dori Durbin 

And I think, you know, I'm thinking about little kids, but that's probably true of the older kids too, right?

Kim Davis 

it is, Yes, it, it definitely is. You're gonna see a big change in the way that they handle extracurricular activities. You're not gonna have the energy to do that. They're, you're gonna see them suffering in school. They're gonna be falling asleep in school. They're not gonna be able to pay attention. Sometimes they actually get diagnosed with Adhd because they just can't regulate their emotions. They can't regulate anything because they're not getting enough sleep. So it's super important.

Kim Davis 

Even though, you know, they're growing, sleep is still a vital part of their development and they need to be sleeping. They need to be sleeping. So.

00:05:43
Dori Durbin 

So besides the negative effects, how would you know if let's say you're maybe two or three month old up to maybe like your four year old, if they're able to get good sleep, how would you know that as a parent?

Kim Davis 

Definitely by their mood. So you're not gonna have a very cranky baby all the time. Their eating habits will definitely be improved when they're healthy and strong. You're gonna see all physical things like their motor skill development, being on time, right? There's like certain ages where you start to see them rolling, you start to see them crawling. And there's one little boy that I helped just in the last little while that he kind of sets the bar for how many things I saw within a two week period of him developing motor skills and, and like brain development.

Kim Davis 

It was absolutely incredible. He went from not sitting up or crawling to doing all those things within two weeks. And the motor, like it was, it was absolutely incredible. And the mom was like, is this normal? Like are we supposed to be seeing all of these big changes? And I was like, it's because he's sleeping now and those brain connections have been made. And that's where we make all of our brain connections is when we're sleeping. So it just make it sense that he, you know, it's food for the brain.

Kim Davis 

That's exactly what sleep is.

Dori Durbin 
Right.

Kim Davis 

And when you get that food, everything starts to connect. And it was absolutely amazing. And mom wasn't tears because she was, she was actually very worried that her son wasn't developing properly. And when he started sleeping,

Dori Durbin 

Yeah.

Kim Davis 

that's when she saw everything come together. So it, it really is food for the brain. And, and we need to be offering that at the right times as well, right? That's a big thing when I work with families, that there's sleep, that that needs to be happening at certain times during the day and following those biological sleep rhythms which our bodies have to in order to get that quality of sleep. There's a big difference between quantity and quality. And I find with the younger ones that parents focus on quantity as opposed to quality of sleep.

Kim Davis 

And so we really dive into what that actually means and what that looks like for like a, a sleep schedule, say for you know, a four month old and and even going up to like toddler years, there's a schedule, there's a biological rhythm that happens And we need to be sleeping on those biological ways to get the quality of sleep that we need, because if we're not, it's really classified as junk sleep and it's like you didn't even sleep. So that's, that's why it's so important to really focus on the quality of sleep that your little one is getting.

Dori Durbin 

So really when you have rough or junk sleep like you were talking about, and then you try to have a nighttime sleep, does that affect the quality of that nighttime sleep? Like, so it's okay,

Kim Davis 

sure,

Dori Durbin 

Yeah,

Kim Davis 

for sure, particularly with the young ones with the nap. So if you are looking at not getting quality of sleep during the day, you can pretty much guarantee that you're gonna have a very challenging night. Very challenging because if you think about it, it's like it really didn't happen because the quality wasn't there. So it's super important to have all of those things in place to have a good sleep routine during the day so it can help them get a better sleep. And and the myth out there is, you know, especially for little ones. Oh, just keep your little one up all day and then they'll sleep all night. Well, that may happen that one night, because they've crashed for sleep and they were just so exhausted that they didn't have a choice, right?

Kim Davis 

But that won't last very long. And going back to having that routine for them and sleeping on those biological sleep waves, that's what's gonna get them through to have consolidated night sleep. And that's what we want. We really want that consolidated night sleep where they're connecting sleep cycles all on their own. And, you know, let's say, if parents were using a pacifier to help them sleep Michaels Well, now moms and dads are playing pacifier, ping pong, I did that, I know what that's like, and it's not fun, right?

Kim Davis 

Every hour on the hour you're replacing that pacifier and that lets parents know that, okay, you know, my son and my daughter cannot transition into their sleep cycles on their own, what's preventing that, what, what can we do to help them? Because that's what's gonna get them consolidated nights sleep if you keep replacing things that are waking up for longer than they should be crying or doing whatever, that nighttime sleep is definitely gonna suffer, definitely.

Dori Durbin 

Okay, I just had a thought, two thoughts really. One I used to hear in this maybe is an old wife's tale. It's better just to lay there and rest than not take the nap, you know. So if they are laying on the bed and they're supposed to be napping but they're not, it's better to just give them that downtime. And then the 2nd thing was, we used to I'm going to admit this. I can't believe I am. We used to drive until my son fell asleep.

Kim Davis 

Oh yes

Dori Durbin 

I know now that that probably wasn't the best thing because the older he got, the harder it was to keep driving that much. I feel like that's also a go to for a lot of people. So what do you think about both those?

00:08:04
Kim Davis 

it is. So in regards to like the motion, sleep it, you know, they're, they're relying on the motion to get them to sleep. And it's great when they're newborns, right? Because, you know, so newborns would classify up to like four months of age. So it's great for that age group because they're really, they're circadian rhythms. So our internal body clocks, they haven't been set yet. So their sleep is so sporadic that there's really no rhyme or reason for it. They're just sleeping when they want to. You can't get them on the schedule, don't even try, before or four months, don't even try to get them on the schedule because you're gonna lose your mind because there is no schedule for, for those ones. But once they start getting older and they start becoming more aware of their environment and what's going on, they're really gonna start to rely on those sleep crutches or sleep associations to help them connect into those sleep cycles.

Kim Davis 

I did it. I I am going to be completely transparent. I did, and pulled out every sleep association, every sleep guard you could possibly imagine. For two and a half years. So there is no judgment whatsoever with any parent that I help because I did them all and I may even surprise people of what I used to do. So it's just when you're in survival mode, you do what you need to do to get some sleep so you can actually function. You can actually remember why you went into a room while you, you know what your name is Most of the time.

Kim Davis 

I didn't even know that for two and a half years. It was just a crazy time for us. But you know, once they hit a certain age to like four or four and a half months, you really wanna be mindful that, okay, how can I now teach my little one to transfer into those sleep cycles independently? And that's what's gonna get them that restorative sleep that they need in regards to, you know, laying down and just letting their bodies rest. Absolutely. There's a time and a place for that. When they're older.

Kim Davis 

I would always be looking at the cause, so why is the cause? Like if they were or, you know, it's, it's not, it's not really a time where, let's say they're like four years old something where naps may not be there anymore. They're not taking naps absolutely. You can certainly allow them to rest their bodies because parents need time, quiet time. They need a mental break. It is totally okay to offer that quiet time, but if they were younger than that and they were still needing those naps, I'd be looking at the cause.

Kim Davis 

So why are they not napping anymore? Is it because the nap schedule is off? Is there something going on? Are they going through a developmental leap where this will definitely impact their ability to sleep and to stay asleep longer? So when I'm working with families, I'm always looking at the cause and treating the cause as opposed to treating the symptoms, right? Because if you're treating symptoms, you're never gonna get ahead, you're always gonna be spinning your wheels, you're always gonna be treating those symptoms.

Kim Davis 

But if we figure out why, well, why is he having trouble or she's having trouble connecting those sleep cycles or you know why they keep waking up in, in the middle of the night. That's what we focus on. And that's what we focus on for like the usually about two weeks that I work with Parent Um, so we can treat the cause and you'll see results. That's what we want, right? 

Dori Durbin 

Absolutely. We're actually chatting a little. Before it, we started to record and I said two weeks of time, like, groups or some consultants wouldn't see any change for months. You know, two weeks is so fast.

Kim Davis 

it is right and, and it goes by so fast and parents start to panic. You know, I probably around day ten and they're like, can I really do this on my own? Absolutely. You can do this on their own because I provide the tools, the education, everything that they need to carry on when I'm not there. And that's not to say that, you know, they can never reach out to me again. Absolutely, You can certainly reach out again because I never. And I alway share that with parents at a wrap up call I like, please promise me that you will call me or send me an email that if something goes on and you're not sure and sleep is going crazy, I never want parents to go back to square one.

Kim Davis 

That's not what I'm here for. I want to see them succeed and build a sleep foundation that is going to last them the rest of their life. And if they need a little tweak, if they need a little encouragement or something happened, daycare transition, whatever it is, reach out so we can talk about it. So you don't have to go back and do sleep training again, right? We don't want to do that. We did it once. We're good. We don't want to go back and do it again.

Dori Durbin 

You probably don't want to go back to that spot that you left

Kim Davis 

and most parents would please please please I never want to be in that situation again because they're enjoying their sleep too and it's funny that once the little ones start sleeping and the parents haven't been sleeping for say quite a while months and months and months sometimes years that their bodies actually take longer to adjust to sleeping through the night than the little ones do because now it's a habit waking for parents and now their bodies are conditioned to waking so you know let's say the baby was waking at four o'clock in the morning every morning it's gonna take parents for a long time to not wake up because they're anticipating that that wake up so their body is like oh they're gonna be up in a few minutes right and then when they don't the first night they kind of panic And I remember this with my son,

Dori Durbin 

Yes.

Kim Davis 

I kind of rushed in and I was like, he still breathing, what's going on, like is he okay, right? And I remember putting my hand on his tummy and just making sure that it was rising. Put my hand over his nose, you know. Silly, right silly. But I was in such as Deps. Stayed. Know what I was doing, but I panicked, right? Because he slept and I hadn't. I didn't know what that was. I didn't know what that was. For two and a half years of sleeping through the night, I had no idea what that even felt like, And so when it happened, I panicked instead of being overjoyed, I panicked, right?

Dori Durbin 

It makes sense because it, it was like an alarm,

Kim Davis 

Yes, did I don't think I hit the

Dori Durbin 

alarm went off in your head to.

Kim Davis 

I was just ed to his room, but he is a great sleeper so we're.

00:16:20
Dori Durbin 

Well, so you bring up an interesting point. So once you survive the newborn stage, you've got them into a routine, hopefully somewhere around four to five months is, and then let's say a few months later you have another baby. And so now you have two,

Kim Davis 

Yes.

Dori Durbin 

one that doesn't have a schedule and one that kind of does. How do you get yourself focused and regrouped that?

Kim Davis 

That's the challenging navigating through, you know, sleep with a toddler. And a newborn. Because the family dynamic changes drastically. And this little one who used to have all of your attention is now trying to figure out, hey, where do I fit in this family dynamics? Now, why am I not getting all the attention that I used to? So it's not like they're doing it on purpose, right? Not being manipulative or whatever. It's not that they don't have that concept, It's just, hey, you still need to be paying attention to me.

Kim Davis 

And a lot of the times you actually see, toddlers actually revert back and actually go into, you know, wanting to be more like a baby. So, you know, if a soother was taken away, they'll want the baby. Sooth the so if there were potty training, you know, if they were finished potty training, they, you know, using the bathroom on their own, they'll sometimes they revert back to like needing a diaper because they see all the attention that their new sibling is receiving. So. You can see a change in the toddler's sleep as, and that's hard because now you are having to deal with a newborn who is up maybe every 3 h for feeding and now your toddler is like, hey, you're up with my brother or sister, what about me?

Kim Davis 

I'm still here too, right? So it's, it's, it can be quite challenging, but in regards to like setting the toddler up for success, having a family meeting, explaining to them what is going to happen, we want to be mindful that we're sharing all of that and not kind of springing it on them like, oh, here's your, here's your new sibling, right? We'll just kind of wing it. You don't wanna do that because you wanna set them up for success as well. And especially if they've already had a great sleep foundation built.

Kim Davis 

We wanna keep that strong.

Kim Davis 

We wanna make sure that we are kind of carving at that special time for your sibling so they know that they're still part of the family. Yes, it's gonna be different, but you're still a very, very important person in this family and so things change by you're still loved, you're still cared for and a lott of the times if there is, you know, quite a bit of a, an age gap, like say two and a half to three years between them, that they can be the helpers and they love being helpers at that age. So incorporating them in the bedtime routine, right?

Kim Davis 

If they're helping them with the bath or whatever they can to be involved, that's what's super important too. So, and it can be challenging because you're so sleep deprived at that time, you're just right, you're kind of just winging things and, but there's also a little person who's watching. And so we really needed to be mindful of that as well. Keeping them in check, so keeping their sleep on track as well. Routine, routine, routine for those little ones, that's the biggest thing.

Kim Davis 

When a new sibling comes in, don't mess with that toddler's routine because they are definitely gonna let you know that they're not happy with that.

00:19:44
Dori Durbin 

toddlers. You That was actually one of my next questions was how important routine is. So I know it is very important. But what, what would be sort of a perfect scenario process to get a toddler ready to go to sleep.

Kim Davis 

okay so timing is a big thing time is a big thing for tolerance and a lott of parents um tend to think that just because they're getting older it means that their bedtime can be pushed back later and later and later and that's really not where we want to start we want to be always mindful that they're not overtired going to bed ninety nine percent of the time night waking early morning rising bedtime battles are caused by being over tired going to bed that's the biggest thing if there is no underlying health issues and many parents are afraid of an early bedtime I was I was totally afraid I was like if I put my child's bed they are gonna be ready to party at four am but that's not what happens what we're doing is that we're just offering more restorative sleep at the beginning of the night and we're not taking anything away from our morning sleep so the most restorative sleep happens before midnight so let's say your little one is going to bed at nine thirty ten o'clock which is not uncommon for parents to come with me,

38:43 - Kim Davis 

come to me with that, that you have just taken a good two, two and a half hours, perhaps maybe even 3 h away from them of restorative sleep. And now you're hoping that that child is going to have better sleep overnight and it doesn't happen that way.

Kim Davis 

So I was terrified. Ten years ago when I 1st started he with families, it was like this is really gonna work. It works on paper, right? I've seen it, seen the studies but is this really gonna work? And I was terrified. I'll be honest, I was completely terrified. The 1st time I offered an early suggested in early bedtime, I was like, please, please don't let this backfire. It didn't, right? And it was it. It actually allows them to sleep through the night and have that consolidated night sleep. So having that early bedtime is the number one thing if there is any kind of sleep problems. The 1st suggestion that I will make is bring bedtime back earlier.

Kim Davis 

The 2nd thing we wanna be mindful of is routine is key for them. They need to know what's happening. Need know why it's happening. Just like us, right? I'm a, I'm a total white person. Tell me why I'm doing something and I'll be more apt to, you know, grasp the concept, right? I wanna know why, why, why the reason behind things. They also wanna know why and when they have a visual cue that there is this, this, this and this happens before we get ready to sleep. It's queuing their mind, it's queuing their body that it's time for sleep.

Kim Davis 

And it's not necessarily what parents are saying, right? Like yes, they're taking the through the bedtime routine, but when they have a visual chart that they can actually, like check off or, you know, have magnets that they put on that they've actually completed that task, that provides an opportunity for them to, to develop ownership of their sleep. And you can teach that as young as, as three years old, right? They understand consequences and circumstances at that age, so they know what happens next.

Kim Davis 

They understand that if I do this, this is gonna happen. And so having that visual cue with them for a routine is key and it just doesn't stop the you know, we also think that a bedtime routine is just for little ones. It's really not right. Even as adults, we have a routine, we do the same thing every night. We may not call it our bedtime routine, right, But we do the same things pretty much every single night before we go to bed. And that's gonna help them build that great sleep foundation that they needed because they know what's what is expected that mom and dad have, have clearly set boundaries and expectations around sleep and they know they know this is what they need to do to go to bed.

Kim Davis 

They know that this is gonna happen because they're getting great night sleep. They know they're gonna have more energy the next day if they get a good night's stress. Mom and dad are gonna be happier. Everybody in the family is gonna happier when you get that sleep. So routine is key. Timing and routine key, geeky for them.

00:23:58
Dori Durbin 

Okay, what if you have a child that maybe is afraid of going to bed? Maybe there's something that happened in the past or they've heard a story, something like that, but how do you talk?

Kim Davis 

Yes, happens all the time.

Dori Durbin 

Yeah, yeah, and how do you talk to kids about getting ready for sleep or how do you talk to them about sleep so it's not frightening to them?

Kim Davis 

Yes, and that happens a lot, we, we see development of fears happen at certain stages, certain ages of, of life and one of the big things that happens around two years old, one of the biggest things is I'm afraid of the dark and this is a developmental thing. So it's, it usually happens with the majority of of little ones, particularly if they're having sleeping issues beforehand. Once they hit two, it kind of exasperates it and it just, it becomes a big issue. Always want to validate their fears, validate, validate, validate.

Kim Davis 

Absolutely. It doesn't make us feel good when we have these feelings about not be, you know, going to sleep when it's dark, but what we want to do. And I, I kind of term it, name it attainment. That's one strategy that I have for families is that we name the fear. Yes, you're afraid of the dark, but what does the dark do for us? Why do we need the dark? And switching that mindset for them, that our mind needs the darkness in order to tell us that it's time to sleep. We can't sleep with bright lights on, we can't do that. There is a purpose for the dark and you know, sometimes you can have a night light that goes in as well. We want to be mindful that it's not a blue light or a white light that the night light is. We wanna make sure that it's either, well, reddish tones or like the ambry, something warm like a fall color tone, because that's not gonna inhibit the production of melatonin.

Kim Davis 

So melatonin is a hormone that's released that tells our body that it, it's time to sleep and we need it to stay, to fall asleep and to stay asleep. So super important. Our bodies produce that naturally and I know there's supplements out there, but our bodies produce it naturally. We can trigger that by doing certain things. So we want to be mindful that if you do have to use a nightlight, if your child is afraid of the dark, to just change it to a red or kind of an orangey tone and that's gonna help them, you know, stay asleep.

Kim Davis 

And it's not gonna tell the bring wake up, wake up, wake up. We don't want that, we don't want that at all. You know, going back to like, what do you say? It's using those words validating their fears. But I try and stay away from using words like afraid or or fear or something that, and I would change the conversation to be I know that doesn't make us feel really good. Sometimes, you know, things don't make mommy or daddy feel really good. Because sometimes they will use and it's not again not, they're not doing it to be, you know, manipulate or anything like that, but they will use fear or a certain thing to just get mom or dad to come back into the room where it's not truly a fear, if that makes sense, right, They'll be like, oh, I'm afraid of, something in my closet or, you know, like you'd be surprised what they come up with, right?

Kim Davis 

They're quite clever, they're quite clever. So we really wanna be aware, that is, is it a true fear, is it really a true fear? And then talk to them in language that they would understand. And one thing that comes to mind is monsters in the closet. And I'm A big, big advocate of telling your children the truth. Always tell them the truth. There is no such thing as monsters. So uh,

you know, you'll see suggestions of having a monster spray or something, but you are just reinforcing that there is monsters, right? But there's, there's not. The the tricky thing is is that between the ages of three and six, their brain development and their imagination just explodes, right? So they don't have the ability at a certain age to do, to distinguish between what's real and what's not real. So that's becomes a challenging point because you saying,

oh, monsters aren't real, right? Like they, whatever, they're imagining these things and they're, well, they are real because I see them. So that's what becomes a little tricky when we're trying to help them overcome their fears. Validating their fears, allowing them to know that they're, you know, everything is fine. Mommy Daddy have these feelings sometimes too, but we're all here to together and we're gonna support each other through it. And just explaining the importance of particularly the dark, why we need the dark, but we can, you know, change that a little bit by having the warm night light if needed, something like that.

Kim Davis 

So I hope that that kind of explains that.

Dori Durbin 

I actually never thought about monster spray or anything like that. Like validating their, their fears that would definitely make a difference or um, I, I was probably a babysitter told me once, you know, if you don't go to sleep, all of the monsters will see you, if you shut your eyes they won't see you, you know, So those are like,

Kim Davis 

So that just plants the seed, right, plants the seed and, and that it actually I had a returning family and he was going into daycare and everything was great. He transitioned wonderfully and all of a sudden his sleep started to become horrendous. Like that's the only word that I can, that I can share. It was horrendous and mom reached out, you know, really upset, I don't understand. We've gone through J And he's such a great sleeper and now he's just terrified of everything. And so I was like, okay, well, how is he doing in daycare? He's doing great, you know, everything's fine.

Kim Davis 

That's like, well, how is his napping at daycare? Oh, that's been a little bit of a challenge. I go, Okay, so that's one thing that will, that will work on, But what's the cause? Like tell me, is the timing change, what's going on like this? Or a new daycare provider, you know, what activities are they doing? And she goes I know the trigger and, and, and sometimes that's all it takes right is to just t, to talk it out. And she says there was a new employee that was playing a game of monsters in the closet and that's what triggered it for this little guy.

Kim Davis 

He was thinking. All closets had monsters and he would not go. Because the parents, there was no Tv show, there was no book at home, there was nothing that they could figure out what was causing this fear of these monsters. Because they don't talk about monsters, right? That's not, that wasn't in the vocabulary. When she dug a little deeper, she realized, oh, there it is. So that day care, so the trigger could be nothing that's going on within the home, could be something else, something that their, their friend told them on the schoolyard or whatever it is, right.

Kim Davis 

So really digging into that cause is super important too. If all of a sudden sleep is, has gone crazy, there is, there is most likely a trigger there. So try and find the trigger will be very helpful.

00:30:21
Dori Durbin 

That's, that's great advice and really quick because I know we're getting down to the wire here time wise. What, what are some of the programs that you offer to parents and then where can they find you?

Kim Davis 

Absolutely. So my programs that I offer are usually a two week program, so we go into great detail and finding out, you know, what the cause is and and again, you know, I'll say that's the biggest thing that I work on with families is treating the cause because we, we want to be mindful that we're doing that and not kind of spinning our wheels, just treating symptoms all the time. So within those two weeks we're together, we develop a Sleep Lan together because it's, we need to take into account parenting style.

Kim Davis 

Everything that's going on within the family could be travel, could be, you know, other families members living with them. We need to know that everybody is on board and it has the same goal. Really important to have that same mindset within the family. When we're together through the two weeks we are in communication daily, we talk about everything that's going on, tweet plans along the way if we needed to. At the end of our two weeks, we get on a phone call, talk about the success that we've seen providing parents with the tools and the education that they needed to move forward and to navigate those, the sleep journey that they're with me and again we were talking before.

Kim Davis 

It's not to say that they never can reach out to me because I certainly want them to just sharing their experiences, but you know, I would never kind of let a family kind of go on their own if I didn't feel that they were ready. And that's what's super important. You need to be ready. And within those two weeks it's, it's amazing to seee the confidence of the parents develop. It's not just things going on with the baby or the child, it's the parents, right? And it's the parents accountability and just it, it truly is a beautiful thing to watch within, within such a short amount of time, right?

Kim Davis 

In two weeks you can change a lot of things in two weeks, if you're focused on the goal and you're focused on consistency and having that routine set up for them, it drastic changes can be seen.

Dori Durbin 

so you have a website?

Kim Davis 

Do yes so babes and beyond dot com is uh the best place to get a hold of me and to reach out I do offer a free discovery call which is a call that we chat and figure out what's going on within your your family and how we can help you get some great restorative sleep so it's a free call.

Dori Durbin 

Well, Kim, I know that there are probably more questions. I'm assuming they can probably email you as well.

Kim Davis 

Absolutely, absolutely, there is a contact form in there and they can certainly do that.

Dori Durbin 

Oh, fantastic. Well, I was perusing your site and was clicking lots of different links, so I'm sure they'll enjoy getting on there and checking things out.

Kim Davis 

Awesome. Well, thank you.

Dori Durbin 

Thank you so much for your time today. I know this will be valuable to all kinds of parents, and I hope that that they really hear the words that the routine and sleep are crucial.

Kim Davis 

Awesome. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I really, really enjoyed talking about it today. Thank you.