[00:00:00.330] - Dori Durbin
Hello and welcome to The Power of Kids Books, where we believe that books are a catalyst to inspire and empower change. However, today is an expert edition. And you know, on these podcasts, I like to discover what professionals love for kids to know about or within their own profession that parents can use as a tool to help their kids grow and change. So let me ask you this. Do you feel the joy way of life being strangled by your family's daily clutter, disorganization, and just plain lots of stuff? Does the effort of fixing the problem seem larger than just simply living with it? I think most of us tend to live with some amount of chaos, but what if you really didn't have to? What if instead, someone could help you live more simply, less stressed, and more fulfilled? Today, I have an answer for you. She's an intentional living consultant, certified culinary nutrition expert, and ultimate professional organizer. Welcome suzanne golden. Hi, Suzanne. Hi, Dori.

[00:01:00.270] - Suzanne Goulden
Thanks so much for having me today.

[00:01:01.970] - Dori Durbin
Thank you for being here. I feel just honored and excited to hear what you have to say. And I'm super curious about how you became basically somebody who simplifies their life and helps others do that. How did this happen?

[00:01:15.030] - Suzanne Goulden
Yeah, I kind of had two different incidents that started. One of them was pretty simple. About five years ago, I was super curious about this new documentary on Netflix called Minimalist. And I sat down with my husband and my son and I said, Kate, just humor me for a little bit. I want to see what this is all about. And I watched the documentary and I was sold in about almost instantly. This was music to my ears, just to learning how to lighten your load, get rid of your stuff, get organized. I mean, I'm a fairly organized person, but we just had stuff, stuff that we don't use, stuff that we don't need. And of course, my husband wasn't completely on board with that. So there's always negotiation within a couple we can talk about that, how that works a little bit when not everybody in your family is quite on board with, hey, let's get rid of 80% of our stuff. That doesn't always work. But anyway, so that's kind of where I got my start with minimizing and really very quickly realizing the positive impact of the stress relief of having all that stuff leave your house and having space, and I kind of call it that.

[00:02:30.160] - Suzanne Goulden
The things we have now are able to breathe. You can actually see them. There's space around and the air moves around. And when you experience that, it's a very different kind of feeling in your home. And once the stuff is gone, it doesn't come back, provided you learn some shopping lessons in the process. So once it's done, it kind of stays that way. And so cleaning the house becomes super simple, and you walk into a room. And it's always nice to walk into the room because it's like, oh, wow. And if things do get kind of cluttered, flat surfaces, dining table, shelving, and tables that always seem to collect stuff, it takes very little time to catch up. I can spend ten minutes in my house and declutter now, right? It's so much easier and simpler. The other time that we had a really big and this was a much bigger impact on affecting more of our life than just our stuff. By the end of 2021, we had been foster parents for 13 years, and we had several other situations that's kind of stressful as it is when you're kind of living that life.

[00:03:49.850] - Suzanne Goulden
But then we had several other things pile up on top in other areas of our life, and it became way too much to deal with. It was a whole lifestyle change. By the end of 2021, I was basically a non functioning burnout, stress burnout. Let's be clear. It just kind of coincided with at the end of 2021, we were able to retire from fostering. So we kind of knew that there was an end coming. We also knew there was an end coming to some of the other major stressors that were happening. But it was such a long process getting to there that we had reached this really kind of terrible point of burnout. And when I say non functioning, I mean I was literally at times in bed, unable to move. Like even the thought of getting up was not going to happen. So I was really at the end of my rope. And when you hit kind of bottom at that is when you realize you have to make a couple of phone calls because you need some help. And so I got some people to kind of help support me and help me come with some strategies and whatnot.

[00:04:56.570] - Suzanne Goulden
But I really had to learn how to simplify my life. I had to let go of all the things that I could not do. So I took some time off. I basically slept the whole time. Either that or crocheted. That was about all I could focus on. I couldn't even read. I was a reader. I couldn't even read a book. I couldn't remember what I read. So I would end up rereading the same paragraph over and over. And then I realized it took nine months before I could read a book. So that was more of a major event where we had to start. It wasn't just decluttering stuff out of our house now. It was decluttering our life, simplifying our life. When I did decide it was time to go back to work, it was only part time and it was a very routine job. It was just a retail job, but it let me leave work at work and I could come home. I didn't have to think about work at home, which is what I needed technically, for me, is not a job I can normally have. I need lots of variety. But in the healing process, this was absolutely perfect at that time.

[00:06:02.500] - Suzanne Goulden
So it was coming into tune with listening to my body and my mind and making the necessary changes. I couldn't push through. I was to the point that I couldn't any longer push it aside and say, I have to do this anyway. I had what I call the shoulds, right? I should be doing this, I should be doing that. And I had to learn to push the shoulds aside. What do you mean? You're sitting here crocheting. You should be. And I had to learn to say, no, I shouldn't. You know what? It's okay. And I had to constantly give myself permission that it's okay to sit here for some time and kind of do nothing. As I was healing, I also learned really quickly that if I was having a good day, if I took on too much, I was back at two days before. So even on the good days where I felt good, I still had to really be very careful with what I took. It was probably a year. I'm a very creative person, but I like doing lots of art stuff and craft stuff and whatever, and I was probably a year.

[00:07:06.170] - Suzanne Goulden
So, yeah, it's been a huge lesson. I'm still on the journey. I'm probably 90% better now. But I learned some really important lessons, and that is making sure that I'm listening. If I think of doing something and my body gets tired as a thought, then I know I'm not ready. That's not something I can do yet. And those things are getting further and further in between. That's kind of how I got started.

[00:07:33.320] - Dori Durbin
I really admire that thought or that attention that you had to. If it makes me tired, it's probably not something that's good for you, because I think that society's go to is we'll just push through it, make it work, make it happen. But there's only so far that you can go before that. It clutters your life, literally. Right. You get to the point where it's just too much to work through, and.

[00:07:55.460] - Suzanne Goulden
That'S where the should come in. Right? And I think that's a lot of society talk, right? When you're saying, I should be doing this, I should be doing that. Well, really, whose expectation is that? It feels like it's your expectation, but really, is it because you think people on the outside are like, why are you just sitting there? Why are you sleeping so much? Why are you explaining yourself? And you don't have to explain yourself. You can just do what you need to do. I've really learned that as well. It doesn't matter what my family thinks, what my neighbors think, what my friends think. Like I said, I had this retail job, and anybody who I said where I was working, they'd be like, oh, really? Talk about that kicking your self esteem, but this is what I need right now. It's okay. And it's not that I didn't mind the job. It's okay. And I like the people I worked with. It was fine, but it was like, oh, you're doing that, but you have to kind of just say, that's none of your business. Yes, this is what I'm doing right now, and that is working.

[00:08:59.630] - Dori Durbin
That's part of that clutter also, that emotional clutter of not allowing yourself to just be okay with it because of what other people are telling you. So I'm thinking about how clutter feels to me, and I am not the perfect person by any means, so no one believed that. But I do feel chaos and stress and heavy and almost anxiety when there's a lot of stuff around me. And it never made that parallel until you were talking between having that physically and feeling that emotionally and functionally, too, because I think when you're crowded like that, you don't have the space to just do what you need to do.

 [00:09:40.590] - Suzanne Goulden
Yeah, it's kind of interesting. Throughout my time doing this, I learned that your stuff actually talks to you. It's in here, but it actually talks to you. And I always kind of joke that usually it says Dust me. Right. But still, dust me has a guilt attached to it. It has a should attached to it. Right. So when you're looking at your stuff, anything, we always have two basic questions that we start with. One, do I love this? Two, does it serve a purpose? Right. And if it's one of those two things and love on a very deep level, not just, yeah, I really like it. Oh, I've had it a long time. No. Do I love this item? That's really important. But when you're picking up any item and you're looking at it and you're saying, so what does this say to me? And if the messages that you're getting are negative, my mom gave this to me as a gift. I hate it, but I have to keep it because my mom gave it to me as a gift. Right. As soon as you let those items go, that negative messaging goes right out the door with it, because you don't have that visual reminder anymore.

[00:10:48.090] - Suzanne Goulden
And this is where this kind of instantaneous feeling of stress falling off your shoulders happens very quickly when you start decluttering your stuff out of your house. One of my biggest lessons where I learned this was actually with my bookshelf, because I am a reader. I was a writer at one time in my life. I actually had a book published at one time, and so my books were very serious. I have a whole circle of published author friends, and my bookshelf has all of their books on there. I used to kind of like, oh, I'm not going to declutter my books, because those are my precious, right? And I thought, I'm going to actually, one time I'm going to go through my books and let's see what happens if I keep them all. I keep them. All, right? I mean, whatever. There's no should here. There's no judgments. It's your stuff, right? It's my stuff. But I was shocked that I actually let go of over half of my book because you start to realize, well, I started reading this book. I couldn't get into it. So you keep it because one day you might decide to try it again.

[00:11:59.670] - Suzanne Goulden
That's never going to happen. Let it go. The books that I had, books that I started reading, and they were so poorly written that they literally flew across the room like, who wrote this? Why is this back on my bookshelf? Out it goes. Maybe I read it and enjoyed it, but am I ever going to read it again? Well, I don't need that book sitting on my shelf if I'm not going to read it again. Someone else could be enjoying it, right? And when I say out of those, I'm talking donate, right? I donate pretty much everything, unless it's actually broken or can't be used by somebody else, everything's donated. So really, I got down to, hey, I bought this book with good intention. Am I going to read it? The answer is no. That one goes out too. Am I going to read it? Yes. I actually, actually really want to read this book. Okay, we're going to put it on the shelf, but we're going to revisit it. And if you haven't read it in six months to a year, you're probably not going to read it, right? And so decluttering isn't a one time event that you go through your house once.

[00:13:05.850] - Suzanne Goulden
You'll go through your stuff kind of repeatedly, over and over. It's like a muscle and a habit that you build over time that gets stronger. So the stuff that you wouldn't get rid of the first time around, especially when you're doing those sentimental things. When I'm working with people about the sentimental items, I'm like, we're not going to harshly force you to get rid of old stuff or stuff attached, because sentimental is memories and there's other ways to think about that. But if you're really not ready, then don't worry about it right now. Maybe you'll be ready next year or six months from now. Or maybe you'll go declutter a whole bunch of easy stuff, and you've built that muscle and the mindset, and you've started to feel that stress release, and you go, oh, now I get it. Now I'm ready to go through the sentimental stuff, right? To me, decluttering should never people always so upset, if I get rid of this, I'm going to cry. Well, then don't get rid of it. This shouldn't be painful. Sometimes it's hard and sometimes you make a hard decision, but at no point should you be completely distraught and stressed.

[00:14:21.410] - Suzanne Goulden
They're not ready yet, and that's okay.

[00:14:23.810] - Dori Durbin
How about with kids? I remember when my kids were little, we had toys all over the place, and they might magically disappear occasionally if they were something that got sucked up in the vacuum. But what about things with them? Because you don't want them upset, but you don't want them to be I don't want to say traumatized, but feel like you were saying they're not ready to give up things, and yet there needs to be some sort of way to keep them organized, too.

[00:14:52.300] - Suzanne Goulden
Yes. So, again, with kids just like yourself, they have to grow that muscle, right. Because up to now and then, you're going to make a change. So they need time to adapt to that change that you're going to make. You can't just be an overnight change and expect them to just be all on board. With Mom's going crazy, she wants me throw away 50% of my toys. First of all, I always say lead by example. So let them see you going through your stuff. Let them see you decluttering your kitchen. Let them help you put stuff in the box and talk to them about, we have five serving spoons. Do we really need five serving spoons? Maybe we only need and which ones are my favorite? Which ones are the ones I like to use, but somebody else could use these ones. Can you put these ones in the box for me? Right? And get them to help you with the process. They'll often start doing their own stuff. Look, I brought this box of stuff that I don't need anymore. They'll probably surprise you just doing it on their own.

[00:15:55.270] - Dori Durbin
However.

[00:15:57.730] - Suzanne Goulden
Having them help you first helps you go through that transition of learning. But it also helps them to see that change more slowly, to make it not an overnight change. Sometimes another really good strategy, too, though, is if they have a lot of things. Like my kids, when they were younger, they had Lego and they had Hot Wheels cars. We have bins. They do have their favorites. And maybe Lego. They don't have favorites, but there's a lot of Lego. That's the one that goes up the vacuum, right. And you're more than happy to vacuum it up because stepping on it is like so what I would recommend then is actually having a box or a container that you say, whatever fits in this is what we can keep. So whatever size you determine is reasonable for your home, because everybody's going to be different. We can fit however much Lego fits in this container. You can keep however many cars fit in this container. If they fill the container and they still are going through their stuff, well, that's where they learn the lesson of trading off. Do you like this car better than that car?

[00:17:13.120] - Suzanne Goulden
Well, then you have to start, because this is it, this container. And you can't keep the container. That's going to be a nice level container, but let them be the decision makers. That's one of the biggest things, is you might want to I might think that kids don't need this or that and next thing but they're the decision makers of their own stuff, right? With a kid, you can kind of guide them with a container that's a little harder to do with a spouse, maybe, but you can, depending on what it is, make a suggestion. But it's mostly over time. When I first started having all this stuff going out of the house five years ago, my husband was a little freaked out, and it does happen. You're going to get rid of something, and two weeks later, it's going to be like, and I have to go rebuy it. It's rare, it's okay. It's part of the process, and it's usually under $20, so don't worry about it. It happens. And most of the time that happens. Actually, when you didn't even realize you had that item and you were going through stuff, you went, oh, I didn't even know I had this.

[00:18:29.480] - Suzanne Goulden
Oh, well, I guess I don't need it. And now, two weeks later, you need it. But the only reason you know you had it is because you found it, right? Otherwise you'd have gone to go buy one anyway, so don't worry about it. You would have had to I have a husband who likes to say, but we have to rebuy stuff. It's like we had to rebuy, like, three things in five years or five for the thousands of things that have left our house. It's okay, right? The decision maker who owns those items needs to be the decision maker on those items going out the door. And there needs to be some patience and understanding that everybody's going to be at a different place. And it's like a spectrum, right? Everybody's going to be on that spectrum at a different place. So whereas I might be ready to get rid of everything, right? You might be living with someone who's, like, slamming the brakes on, and then also if you get a little too excited and too gung ho, they can actually rebel. Patience really plays a big part, and it's a learning curve as well.

[00:19:42.970] - Suzanne Goulden

It's natural. It's kind of that struggle in a relationship where you really want your kids to get rid of all this stuff because you see it now as stuff, because you've moved further along. But that's their stuff, and they're not ready to part with it. So it's just a slower process and takes some patience, but it's much smoother if you let them kind of come on board in their own time, right? Keep setting the example. It's really important.

[00:20:11.800] - Dori Durbin
So for the kids, well, for the families especially, who have taken this step and they've decluttered, what are some of the things that they say afterwards? What do they notice is so different about their experience at the house.

[00:20:25.600] - Suzanne Goulden
Yeah, well, the big one, like I mentioned already, is once you've decluttered and as long as you're not shopping to replace, it's always stress free. Right. When you walk into that room, or to me, one of the best places is your front entrance or your garage door. Whatever door you use to go in and out of your house, start there. Because every time then that you enter your house into this room, that is so refreshing. It makes it nice to come home. Right. It's welcoming, and it makes you feel good to come home. I always kind of recommend starting in your living area. Start in the rooms that you're in regular basis. Don't start in the basement. Don't start in a linen closet. Start with your dining room table. Start with your entranceway. Start where you are living. Because it's also very motivating to see your work and feel kind of the fruits of your labor every day and go, oh, that feels so good. I'm motivated now. It's very motivating, right? It kind of becomes a little bit addicting. Like, now I don't go through my house. I've gone through my house so many times.

[00:21:50.040] - Suzanne Goulden
I probably did five major declutters over the years, but now I just have a box at my entranceway, and as I'm going through or doing my daily steps, like, oh, why do I still have this? Because on my last declutter, I still wasn't ready to get rid of it. But now I've moved that much further, I don't need it. And then when the box is full out, it goes to the thrift store. As you see stuff leaving your house, you start to see where you're spending your money. And some people struggle with that. I spent money on this, but now I'm just going to give it away. Yeah. Because that money is already spent and it's not coming back. But where we change is our spending habits in the future so that you try to learn from you don't empty your space just so you can fill it again. You also feel that gratitude for that empty space. And that's also very motivating to not fill that space again.

[00:22:52.600] - Dori Durbin
That makes a lot of sense, especially after you really recognize that it's made a change in how you feel.

[00:22:58.110] - Suzanne Goulden
So I think people, usually their biggest thing is how much better it feels, how much they like if you're driving home from work and you are so stressed that the thought of walking into your own house, your house should be your sanctuary. Your house should be where you feel relaxed and at home. And if you're stressed out about going into your house because everywhere you look, there's a should you don't even realize the guilt is attached to this stuff. Right. I was talking about my bookshelf, and it's letting all those books go. That was my light bulb moment of how much guilt was in those books that I should be reading, but I really don't want to or have no intention of, but I bought them. They were recommended to me by somebody or I saw a review or whatever, and I should read it. But once that went out of the house, well, those books weren't an option anymore, so all that feeling went with it. That was a huge moment. I think when they experience this and it doesn't take long, you go, oh, now I get it. And then that's when it gets super easy to start decluttering, starting a tart starting.

[00:24:10.820] - Suzanne Goulden
It kind of that, this is my stuff, and what if I need it? Just in case items always you don't need just in case items. Just the junk door. You probably get rid of 80% of it.

[00:24:25.030] - Dori Durbin
I think it's interesting how it feels like more is more, and yet more feels like too much. So it's kind of an interesting play that we get ourselves in where we feel like we need something else or something new and that we're going to feel better somehow because we have these things in reality, it sounds like if we gave them away, we'd have more space, more freedom, more comfort. So it's just interesting how we society plays that on us.

[00:24:53.020] - Suzanne Goulden
Yeah. And it is. It really is a societal idea. I know from the minimalists, they have said that the average American home and I'm statistic is that the average American home has 300,000 items in it. If you were looking for something, how would you ever know if you have it, right?

[00:25:16.840] - Dori Durbin
Yeah.

[00:25:17.770] - Suzanne Goulden
And where do you put it all? I don't know, but that's a lot of stuff, and that's a lot of money, and it's a lot of keeping up with the Joneses, right? My neighbor has it. My friend has it. My sister brother has it. You're right. We psychologically think that if I want this, if I buy this, I'm going to feel better. It's going to fill a hole. But that's a whole other psychological kind of thing. But it's extremely common. There's this endorphin hit when we say add to cart, but it's almost instant by the time you're putting the stuff in the car. Sometimes it's like, oh, I just spent how much money? And that guilt is already there. The endorphin hit was the purchase, right? The swiping your card or handing over your cash. But afterwards it's like, what did I just do? Right? I mean, a lot of people have clothing that still have the tags on them, some of them in the bag still, or they've gone into the closet. It's this feel good moment in our brain that makes us go shopping, right. And so when we declutter, a lot of that comes to light, and then you actually there was huge changes almost instantly in my shopping habits.

[00:26:41.800] - Suzanne Goulden
It was like, I just got rid of all this stuff or I don't want it. Back because I know I'm not going to need it. Another good question is, if I don't have this, what would I use instead? And you probably already have something. You probably do already use it.

[00:26:58.100] - Dori Durbin
What about sentimental things? Your child's first papers in school?

[00:27:04.890] - Suzanne Goulden
Similar. Yeah, same type of questions. If you visit my blog, I actually did a blog post specifically on kids artwork. So if you go back on my blog in the month of March, I did a whole bunch of different topics in March every day anyway, so I did that. But yeah, the one thing that's interesting with kids artwork is, of course it's sentimental. They give it to you as gifts. It shows growth and milestones as they're aging. And so we feel the need to keep all these memories to hope that one day they're going to come to us and say, mom, did you keep every piece of artwork that I ever made throughout my childhood? And you get to say, I did, and here's the bin to prove it. No child is ever going to come to you and say, hey, did you keep my artwork from when I was a kid? They don't. And if you think of that, you didn't go to your parents asking for your childhood artwork, and if they pulled out a bin of it, you'd have probably thought they were not. I think maybe they're the very odd piece that really does have some sort of sentimental value that is worth keeping.

[00:28:25.210] - Suzanne Goulden
And it's going to be different for everybody. But maybe it's the first time they wrote their name, but those pieces are going to be far and few between pictures. And I don't mean artwork pictures, I mean photographs of things. Keep the same memory as the actual item themselves. You can apply that not just to kids artwork. You could apply that to all sentimental items. But if you have a picture of it, you'll have the same memory. This is what I did, and it actually worked out really well. And it's something that I do recommend to people. I gave them each in their bedroom, two strings across their wall on a piece of wall. And they got from the Dollar store. You can get these fancy, nice little clothes pins, right? And whenever they made art, we hung it up on their clothesline. And when their clothesline was full, I took a picture. And then I didn't empty the clothesline because it wasn't my clothesline. It wasn't in my room, it was in their room. So even if they gave me a gift of a picture, I would very much appreciate the picture and say, let's hang it on your clothesline.

[00:29:30.010] - Suzanne Goulden
When they made new artwork and their clotheslines were full, then I said, well, which piece do we take down to put this piece up? And I let them be in charge of their artwork. And then that piece of artwork that they took down, everyone. Was really quite fine. They could go and recycle it at that point, if there was a piece that was particularly special to me, that's when you can kind of stick one aside and put it away. Right. You can also set yourself a limit, the same thing as giving the kids a container. You can say, I'm allowed to keep ten pieces. And so when you find the 11th piece that you absolutely love, well, do you love this piece more than one of the other ten? Well, then you switch it out, really be super picky and ruthless about what you do keep because you'll be that much more appreciative of those pieces.

[00:30:25.850] - Dori Durbin
That's really great advice. I love that. And it's something that re empowers the kids to make those decisions and teaches them to be simple and not need to hang on to every single thing either. Now you have something coming up. It's a three week challenge, and I think it is called the Joyful Kitchen Clean Out. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that?

[00:30:46.820] - Suzanne Goulden
Yeah, I have joined up with my friend Elizabeth from Living Simply Kitchen, and we are running an online event, and it's actually two weeks, but it's two weeks that's okay. It runs May 6 and 13th on a Saturday morning. And we are going to be going through live. On the first Saturday, we're going through the pantry, and on the second Saturday, we're doing fridge and freezer. And we are looking at label reading. And it's for people who really want to make a change in their kitchen. How do we find healthier swaps? What do we have in our kitchens that are not doing our bodies the service that they need? And what can we replace with over time? But it's really about learning what is healthy, and it's for people who are really wanting to make a change in their meal planning and the food that they provide for their family. The cook of the house is the doctor of the house. And that was a very eye opening kind of quote for me that really made me become very conscientious of the food that we brought into our kitchen. There are no rules. There's always moderation.

[00:32:07.590] - Suzanne Goulden
It's what you eat most of the time that makes the biggest difference. Yeah. And no judgment. No judgment.

[00:32:14.450] - Dori Durbin
Now, where do they go to sign up for that?

[00:32:17.050] - Suzanne Goulden
So if they go to my website, right on the home page, there's a link through to the page with all the information where they can register and whatnot. And like I said, it's running. The first Saturday is May 6, so as long as they register before May 6, we're all good to go.

[00:32:34.230] - Dori Durbin
That's fantastic. Well, you have given us just such a wealth of information that parents can put to use right away, and I'm sure if they have questions, you'd be open to them, contacting you.

[00:32:45.080] - Suzanne Goulden
Of course. Absolutely. Yeah. Have a newsletter you can sign up for and then you can email me directly.

[00:32:50.460] - Dori Durbin
Thank you so much today for your time and just all your information. Suzanne great.

[00:32:55.840] - Suzanne Goulden
Thank you so much for having me. This is a lot of fun.