[00:00:00.650] - Dori Durbin
All our kids have special needs, and those needs are usually met by understanding them as people. And when we're parents, that's our job. Our job is to help our kids understand themselves and to relate to others. The question is, what if the special needs are something that's new and unique to our kids? And what if they're not their own? What if those special needs belong to classmates or people they see on the street? How do we handle those awkward situations, and what can we do?

[00:00:33.610] - Dori Durbin
Well, Megan Prendergast, my guest today, has her own book included. And the great thing is, she not only will read part of it to us and explain and talk about it. But she also will give us new ideas that maybe you just never have thought of before. Listen in.

[00:00:52.210] - Dori Durbin
Welcome to the Power of Kids Book Podcast, where we believe books are a catalyst for inspiring and empowering change. I'm your host, Dori Durbin, and today we have with us Megan Prendergast. She is an author. She is a licensed counselor and a mama. So welcome, Megan.

[00:01:12.170] - Megan Prendergast
Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:14.020] - Dori Durbin
You are so welcome. I'm so excited to hear about your background as a licensed school counselor and how that kind of ties into your book or even your inspiration for your book.

 [00:01:25.450] - Megan Prendergast
Thank you. So, yeah, I worked as a school counselor. I've actually worked in schools in a variety of capacities, so I worked as a paraprofessional. I've been a one on one instructional assistant. I was a music therapist for a period of time. I've been substitute. I've been in the counseling role. So I kind of seen the whole gamut of kids in schools. And I really have a passion for special education where my heart is and I fall in love with them. So I just love working with students, and I think that they want to feel just like everyone else does. We want to all be included. We want to be seen. We want to be seen as people. And unfortunately, I've seen some times where some kids, and even adults, did not feel like they were included. They felt like they were left out, and it's heartbreaking. So I decided, hey, I have this important message that I really want to share with the world, and what great way to do it is to write a book. So I drew upon some of my experiences working with children in schools and adults and thinking about some family members I even have that have some developmental disabilities.

 [00:02:31.140] - Megan Prendergast
And I decided that I wanted to go ahead and use that experience to make a difference. So that's what I decided to do.

[00:02:37.350] - Dori Durbin
That's awesome. And I'm so curious. So when you're a school counselor, you're working with all the kids, right? And yet these special needs kids kind of stood out to you as needing maybe more attention or more of a voice. Is that kind of how it felt.

 [00:02:54.880] - Megan Prendergast
Right. One of the positions that I had was a title one counselor, actually. So I was working with students that were the students with the most needs in the school. So that didn't necessarily mean physical needs or anything like that, but they just needed assistance to help them succeed. So the students that did need a little extra assistance kind of always have had that special place in my heart. Yes, definitely. They stood out. And I think that they kind of seek me as well because they know that I'm a helper. I've always been a helper. So I've always wanted to kind of reach out in any capacity that I could and help all people, really, but especially those that I feel like really need that extra push or extra assistance to help them feel just as special and important.

 [00:03:40.410] - Dori Durbin
Yeah, that's awesome. I think that's an area that I remember growing up. I mean, this has been a long time ago, obviously, I'm not going to give my age, but it was a while ago. And really, I always felt like special needs kids were isolated and that made that stigma that much bigger to me as a kid. Right, go ahead.

 [00:04:03.930] - Megan Prendergast
Oh, I was just going to say yeah, I mean, I think it is very different. Even from the time when I was in school, I think that there was a lot of segregation with kids that did have special needs. They were put into their own classrooms. They weren't really allowed to be with the general population. And I think it's great that nowadays we are really trying our best to incorporate them into the general education population, to have them be in the same classrooms as their peers, which is where they should be.

 [00:04:28.310] - Dori Durbin
Yeah. And do you feel like students now have it's almost easier for them to accept kids that have special needs? It's less of a stigma. It's more like commonplace.

[00:04:41.600] - Megan Prendergast
In a way. I do think that they are more accepting because they are seeing them in their classrooms. They're not just shoved down a hall in a different class by themselves. So it is great that schools are blending these classrooms together. I think we're 100% definitely not. Even when we think about things like inclusive playgrounds, you only see a few of those here and there. We don't have those in every park, in every community, unfortunately. So we are making strides, which is amazing, but definitely nowhere near 100%, which I hope we will be someday.

[00:05:13.730] - Dori Durbin
Yeah. Well, there's definitely areas, I think even for adults, much less for kids, there's lots of areas that need to be improved.

 [00:05:21.310] - Megan Prendergast
Right.

 [00:05:22.790] - Dori Durbin
So tell me about your motivation to actually write your book. What took you from seeing these kids that really needed a little bit more attention to actually physically writing a book?

 [00:05:34.170] - Megan Prendergast
Yeah, so actually had my son back in 2017, and when he was still in my belly, I was reading to him, and I just knew the importance of reading and the power of books. So I started reading him my belly, and I was like, you know, there's not a whole lot of books about diverse topics like kids that have physical disabilities or developmental disabilities. I wasn't really seeing kids in wheelchairs. My mother in law actually had Ms, and she also was confined to a wheelchair with limited mobility. And my son was born 11.3 lbs, so he was way larger than the average baby. So knowing all of these things and saying, hey, I'm not seeing a whole lot of representation in these books, I was like, you know what? I want to do something about them. Thinking about even my little guy who was not so little. I didn't want him to feel different than other kids, even though he could potentially be growing twice their size, right? So I was thinking, you know what? Let's go ahead and just put this into words. I have lots of ideas and these thoughts in my mind, and if I put them on paper, I can share this message with so many other people.

 [00:06:40.050] - Megan Prendergast
And I think books are such a wonderful, powerful way to share such an important message. So I've been fortunate that I was able to write this, because I have been able to reach so many more people than I would have if I just kept it in my head or shared it with my close friends, companions.

 [00:06:55.240] - Dori Durbin
Well, we're definitely going to dig into that in just a minute. I'm curious, though. Do you have a book that you feel, like, inspired you to actually write a book? Was there a favorite one that felt powerful?

 [00:07:07.370] - Megan Prendergast
I didn't have one that was particularly important to why I wrote my book. But I will say that the day that I wrote my book actually was following an event because I had seen famous people actually at a book signing at Barnes and Noble, and I was like, you know what? They wrote these books, and they're amazing books, and they're amazing people. I want to be that way. I want to be out there, and I want to get my book onto paper and have this out there in the hands of people all around the world. I was thinking how amazing it would be. So they're the ones that really inspired me to actually sit down and write it. That night, I sat down, I wrote on my phone, actually, first, and I was really inspired just because of them. So I wouldn't say that there was a particular book that was like, hey, I need to sit down and write this. I will say that my favorite book is "Love You Forever". I absolutely love that book. It just is a book that I remember being a kid and reading it at my grandma's house every single day, and I just fell in love with that book.

 [00:08:08.780] - Megan Prendergast
And it just was so meaningful to me, and I just thought how awesome it was to feel so loved in that book. And even though now I'm a mom and I absolutely cannot read it to my children without crying, but that was my absolute favorite book growing up, and just knowing how powerful it was for me as a kid was very inspiring for me as well.

 [00:08:30.880] - Dori Durbin
I have to say. I saw that on our shelf the other day, and I felt the same way. I almost didn't want to touch it because I knew how emotionally tied I was to it. It's funny how books will do that. They'll make emotional bridges for us through our experiences, and so hopefully that's what your book will do as well. It will just make these ties that you see the COVID and you think, oh, I need to pay attention to XYZ, which was in this book. Let me do this. Let me have you read a little bit of it, and I'm going to limit you to 30 seconds, but I won't time you, I promise.

 [00:09:07.960] - Megan Prendergast
Okay. All right. 

Sometimes other kids may seem different to you, but that does not make them any less special than you. Some may be bigger, some may be smaller, but it does not matter who is taller. Some may use a wheelchair that goes round and round. Some may need crutches to get around town. Some may have glasses to help them see. Some may use hearing AIDS to hear you and me. Some may need more time or help around. Some may not like bright lights or loud sounds. Some kids may have lots of hair, but other kids heads may not.
That's around 30 seconds.

 [00:09:52.410] - Dori Durbin
Yeah, I can let you just be reading if you won't  give it all away. Y
Yeah, you brought some really amazing pieces into that. So simply with the hair, I'm assuming you're talking about alopecia, the sensations I'm figuring you're talking about sensitivities or disorders where students are just really sensitive, and then I know I missed a couple. What else did you read that was actually a special need?

 [00:10:23.270] - Megan Prendergast
So I talk about kids needing wheelchairs or crutches with physical disability. I also have students that have glasses and hearing aid or children that have glasses and hearing AIDS. And I talk about not liking bright lights or loud sounds, which is students that may have students, but children that may have autism. And then, yes, I have a boy in there that has no hair. So when I do readings at schools, I do talk about alopecia. I also talk about cancer, or maybe they just like the way that it feels or looks. So that's just their personal choice, and they choose to save their hair. So that's what I've read. Also, later on in the book, I do have a little homage to down syndrome. There's a boy that has a T 21 T shirt on. Standing for trifomy. 21. And, you know, I just talk about a lot of physical differences that you may see with other kids. And I'm hoping that even though I don't specifically give details about them, just kind of noting, hey, these are things that you might see with other kids are recognized, and they're really no different than you are.

 [00:11:26.380] - Megan Prendergast
Even though on the outside we might look a little bit different.

 [00:11:30.430] - Dori Durbin
I totally can see a classroom using this, having a teacher be able to say, okay, what do you think is going on for this child? So say the child with no hair, what you said before, maybe they have alopecia, maybe they have cancer. It opens the doors up to conversing about a situation. And even for as a parent, I'm thinking, well, this book yeah, we could have talked about all these things that you would have to kind of dig to think of, and they're all right in the same book.

 [00:12:05.740] - Megan Prendergast
That's awesome, right? Yeah. And when I do school readings, I don't just sit there and read the book. I talk about those things, and I have the kids involved, and I ask them questions and say, why do you think this is? Or could you be friends with somebody that's in a wheelchair, somebody that has autism? We talk about different ways that they could play together so that it's not just like, oh, well, my friend is in a wheelchair, and I don't know what I should do with them because they can't do anything. That is so not true. So we have those conversations and get into those discussions. And I also let the students kind of lead those questions as well, which is, I think, great for parents to do too. Let the children lead those questions and see where their minds are going and see what they're wondering and questions that they might have. And parents might know the answer, and they might also not know the answer. But I think it's a great learning opportunity for parents too, because they could say, you know what? I don't know much about autism, and I know your friend Joe has autism.

 [00:13:00.130] - Megan Prendergast
Let's look into it and find out more about it. So it could be a great learning opportunity for students and parents alike.

 [00:13:05.830] - Dori Durbin

That's a great example because I think sometimes as parents especially, you feel like you have to know everything, right? So then you sort of shy away from talking about things that you don't know because you don't want to look like a parent who doesn't know something. And I know it's like an egotistical kind of thing, but it's also kind of like a fear. I don't want to tell my child something wrong, but if it's an exploration where you're both finding out about it together, that's even better, really, isn't it?

 [00:13:35.330] - Megan Prendergast
Yeah, exactly. I don't think that there's anything wrong with saying, I don't know, I've always felt that way. Actually, I shouldn't say, I've always felt that way because as a kid, I definitely felt like I needed to have all the answers. But in my adulthood, I would definitely say I have always been okay with saying I don't know, but I'll come back, I'll find the answer, and I will let you know. And I don't know if that's part of my counseling background or wisdom as you get older, but I'm always okay with that and saying, hey, let's do the research. My five year old son likes to ask a lot of questions, and sometimes I'll be like, you know what? I don't know, let's go to Google and figure it out. So we just look up the answers together. And I do think it's a great learning experience, and I don't think there's anything wrong or to be shameful about having to look.

 [00:14:17.090] - Dori Durbin
I think you're right. One question that I had before talking to you was kind of off of that idea. So if you're finding out information, what is okay to ask somebody who has special needs and what's not okay to ask? How curious can I be directly to that person?

 [00:14:40.250] - Megan Prendergast
Right? I get that question a lot when I am doing readings, and I will say it's always more about how you go about it rather than necessarily, is it okay? So if you're going to ask question about, let's say that you have a friend who's in a wheelchair and you're really curious to know why they're in a wheelchair, if you were to say, what's up with a wheelchair? Why are you in a wheelchair? It obviously sounds pretty offensive or hurtful, but if you were to ask the question, would you mind sharing with me how you ended up in a wheelchair? Or have you always been in a wheelchair? I think it's the way that you word the question that could be very important. But I also think it really depends on the relationship that you have with that person. If it's a kid that is in a classroom with a classmate that has a wheelchair or that has a hearing aid and they've been seeing them a lot, they see them every day, and then their curiosity is growing, I think it could be natural for those questions to progress. Now, the person may want to answer, they may not.

 [00:15:41.850] - Megan Prendergast
And that's totally fine too, is what I always tell people. It's their personal preference. Some people will want to share information, others won't. But if you're walking up to a stranger on the street and you're just asking them questions, they're probably going to be more maybe offended or maybe just kind of closed off and not willing to share. So I really think it depends on the relationship that you have established already. And I do think it depends on the way that you ask questions. So be careful about the word choices.

 [00:16:08.330] - Dori Durbin
Susie comes down to respectfully asking and kind of filling out the situation. If you don't know that person especially. Do you feel like in classrooms too, that let's say you do have somebody in a wheelchair? If the class understands and the person in the wheelchair knows that this information is out there publicly, it makes things a little easier for the whole class.

 [00:16:36.430] - Megan Prendergast
I think it's kind of like a double edged sword because I think it would be great for everybody to understand and everybody be on the same page, hey, this is my friend Megan and she is a person that uses a wheelchair or she's a person that has autism, let's all understand that. But at the same time, I also feel like when you do that, you might draw that attention to that person that they don't want. They might not want to be called out because sometimes we might have a friend who has red hair in class and we're not going to say, hey look, they have red hair and just call that out.

 [00:17:06.470] - Dori Durbin
Right.

 [00:17:06.840] - Megan Prendergast
So with that, when I do readings and I'm talking about people that are in wheelchairs and I see a friend in the audience that's in a wheelchair, I don't say, hey, look over there, that's somebody in a wheelchair. Because I don't want to draw unnecessary attention to them or unwanted attention to them. So it's kind of one of those things where it's like, yeah, you want to provide that information. But if I were a teacher in that situation or a counselor, I would say, let me talk to that student and see if maybe they want to talk to the class about what's going on or why they're using this device, things like that. I would never just put them out there on display for the class, even though it would be an awesome learning opportunity and you have good intentions about it. I just think that it would be awesome if they could leave that or if they gave you permission to do that, that would be wonderful too.

 [00:17:55.270] - Dori Durbin
Yeah, because then they can control how much they tell as part of yeah, I have rheumatoid arthritis and I didn't have it until I was actually an adult in my thirty s. And there are lots of times that I'm revealing it now, but I don't reveal it because I want to be seen as everybody else. I want to not make anybody curious about whether or not I can do something or not. I want to try it first and if I can't do it, then maybe I'll admit it or maybe I won't. And so I feel like that's very similar.

 [00:18:27.490] - Megan Prendergast
Yeah, and I talk about that too. There's a lot of times where things are very visible to others, where if you are using a wheelchair, crutches or have a hearing aid, that could be more visible. But whereas if you have a disorder or disease or chronic illness that only you know, or you and your close family know, others aren't going to know that. So we always talk about not judging a book by its cover. That's later on in my book. But I do talk about we don't know people just by looking at the outside of them. You've got to get to know them on the inside and ask those questions because they're also fighting battles you have no clue about. So sometimes I always say be kind to everybody, but sometimes you just have to be careful because you don't know what's going on inside that person, even if everything on the outside looks okay. Normal. Normal. So, yeah, I mean, there are things going on with people that you may never know about that's, right.

 [00:19:20.770] - Dori Durbin
Well, okay. So here's another question for you. As far as your kids go or kids in general, do you think it's harder for them to advocate for themselves because of wanting to be treated normally?

 [00:19:37.850] - Megan Prendergast
Good question. So I do think it can be more difficult for them because, again, if you are asking for extra help, it can be embarrassing sometimes. I read that part earlier. We all may need extra help or some extra time sometimes. And I always emphasize the students that it's okay to ask for extra help or to ask for extra time for things to get a no as a response from your teacher. But you know what? It's okay to try, right? Because we all will need a little assistance with different things at different times in our life. And if you want to be treated the same, it can be kind of stigmatizing to be like, well, I have to ask for extra help. I don't want to do that because I don't want to seem like I am different than my other classmates who didn't need the time. But I do think that there are some strong, amazing kids out there that are great advocates for themselves and saying, no, you know what? I want to do my best, and in order to do the best, I need a few more minutes or extra help with this, and that's pay.

 [00:20:39.100] - Megan Prendergast
So I don't think that there's anything wrong. I obviously love strong advocacy, but I do think that there are some children out there who will feel a little stigmatized by asking folks to actually help our child.

 [00:20:51.730] - Dori Durbin
I think somebody said in one of your reviews, it was really interesting, and I thought this was great. She said, Your book shows how people are different, but also how people are not the same. And I thought that was brilliant.

 [00:21:07.980] - Megan Prendergast
Right.

 [00:21:08.960] - Dori Durbin
And I think that's what you're saying, too, is that we all need help, we all need some extra things at times. We need to advocate for ourselves, but we want to just be treated as a person who we are, period, not stigmatized in any way.

 [00:21:24.300] - Megan Prendergast
Exactly.

 [00:21:25.850] - Dori Durbin
That's really awesome. Okay, I'm going to go back to your book for a minute. Specifically, how has your book fared as far as being accepted by people and what's happened because of your book.

 [00:21:40.670] - Megan Prendergast
My book has been I personally shared my book with students in 13 states so far. My goal is to get to all 50, but I've shared it personally with students in 13, and it's in four countries, and it's kind of all over the US. I'm not in all 50 yet, but I'm in about 40. So I'm really that in itself is incredible to me because, like I said earlier, I'm able to reach so many more people by putting these words down into or onto paper. So I think it's been amazing and has been wildly accepted by especially schools, teachers, professionals in schools, and parents all over the country and in other countries as well. And I am very grateful and fortunate that it has been so widely accepted. But I think that what they really enjoy about it is the simplicity of it. And it's great for little kids, young children, they can even help with reading it because the words are nice and big, and it's only a few on the page, which is really great for them as well. And then I have these vibrant illustrations on top of that. So pictures are interesting to look at and do a great job of depicting what the words are saying.

 [00:22:47.670] - Megan Prendergast
So I think people with young children really enjoy reading the book because it's something that gives them family time, but it also helps their children learn. It's a learning opportunity. And like we mentioned earlier, it's a learning opportunity for parents too, which can be great. So I think that it's just been so wonderful, and I'm very grateful and fortunate to be able to share it with so many people.

 [00:23:08.650] - Dori Durbin
That's amazing. That's a lot of states and a lot of countries. You've been busy.

 [00:23:12.500] - Megan Prendergast
Yeah, I have. And I have had two more children since when I wrote the book.

 [00:23:17.630] - Dori Durbin
So, you know that means your audience has grown, right?

 [00:23:22.740] - Megan Prendergast
Yeah, exactly.

 [00:23:25.090] - Dori Durbin
Do you have other books down the road that you want to create?

 [00:23:28.690] - Megan Prendergast
Yes, I do. I actually have the next draft ready to go. Unfortunately, I'm looking for another illustrator because my first illustrator is unable to do the work for me because he has another job right now. So I'm on the search for a new illustrator, which has proven to be quite the task because there are a lot of options out there. So I'm trying to find the best fit for my book, but I plan to do a miniseries that's kind of a spin off on the characters in included. And I also have a second book about inclusion and kindness coming out as well. And then farther down the road, my son and I are working on an adventure series, so we have a lot to come.

 [00:24:11.170] - Dori Durbin
That is awesome. I've seen young authors take on the responsibility of writing their own books. It's so fun.

 [00:24:19.190] - Megan Prendergast
It is.

 [00:24:20.240] - Dori Durbin
That's awesome. And as far as your illustrator goes. I think what's hard is when you have a book that's already created, especially already published, you're trying probably, I'm guessing, to match up to what your current yeah, exactly.

 [00:24:36.710] - Megan Prendergast
In the mini-series is following characters in the book. So I want them to look the same as what they look like in their first book, which is difficult to do. But there are so many talented artists out there, so I'm hoping I'll find that right match.

 [00:24:48.920] - Dori Durbin
Maybe this will take care of it for you

[00:24:51.060] - Megan Prendergast
That's right. That would be wonderful! 

[00:24:53.290] - Dori Durbin
But here, if you didn't catch that before, we're looking for an illustrator.

 [00:24:57.870] - Megan Prendergast
Yes.

[00:24:59.310] - Dori Durbin
That is awesome. So the other thing I want to ask you is, have you seen your book being used as an actual tool? So with other counselors, with teachers, maybe even in physicians offices, things like that?

[00:25:15.590] - Megan Prendergast
Actually, yes, to all of the above. So some school districts have been incredible, and they have been purchasing copies to provide to every teacher in the school, which is amazing. They're adding them to their classroom libraries. They're reading them together with the kids. I have them actually also in dentist office and things like that in the waiting room, which is really cool. And I just think it's incredible that they're using this as a tool. And even, like for myself, my nephew, a couple of years ago, he had glasses and he had just gotten them. He was so excited about getting glasses. And then he found out that the kids were not being so kind to him when he had his glasses on. They were calling in names, making fun of him. So I was actually invited to go to his classroom and I read my book for the class. And at that time, when I got to the page about wearing glasses, he ran to his desk and put his glasses on. And it just made me so happy because I knew that he was proud of himself and he was going to be his best self wearing his glasses.

 [00:26:08.300] - Megan Prendergast
So I'm even kind of able to do that little, I don't know, advocate for my nephew through my book as well, I guess I should say. So I knew that he could be his best self.

[00:26:19.360] - Dori Durbin
That's probably super rewarding to see that your book on him and actually he has less of a responsibility to you because he is close to you. So that's.

 [00:26:33.150] - Megan Prendergast
Good.

 [00:26:33.550] - Dori Durbin
Well, on that same note, and only because we're running out of time, because I think I could talk to you for a while, what are two reasons that you feel like professionals should write their own kids books?

[00:26:46.450] - Megan Prendergast
So one of them I mentioned earlier, I just think books are such an amazing way to share a message. First of all, you can reach so many more people than you would be able to do on your own by just sharing word of mouth. And I also think it's. So important to share that knowledge. So you are the expert, you have that wealth of knowledge and you should really write it into a children's book. Make it a children's book so that these younger kids have the opportunity to start learning at a younger age and then they are able to make wise decisions and just increase their wealth of knowledge and they're able to become their best selves as well and having all this information at their fingertips.

 [00:27:23.350] - Dori Durbin
Yeah, I love that. And you know, I'm 100% behind you on that. Well, Megan, where can people find your book and where can they find you?

[00:27:33.170] - Megan Prendergast
So my book and Me I can also be found @includedbook.com included is also available on Amazon and ebook format. So for kindle, but either includedbook.com or Amazon kindle.

[00:27:46.550] - Dori Durbin
That's awesome. Well, I really appreciate your insight, your wisdom, and just all of the information that you've just given us. I feel like we gave parents a really big gift. So thank you so much.

 [00:27:58.460] - Megan Prendergast
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

 [00:28:01.420] - Dori Durbin
Absolutely.