[00:00:00] Tom Durbin: The best description of a middle school I think is they love you they hate you and they love you all within a three minute span and they might tell you that and that, that's okay it's just a hard, it's a challenging time of life, but every student has greatness in them. And we want to help work with the family to find that so that they can pursue , develop it and launch into that whatever that is after high school

[00:00:26] Dori Durbin: Are you a parent of an elementary student who is switching over to become a big middle schooler? Well, if you've started to face all the changes in them personally, and haven't thought about the transition into middle school. Now's the time and I have great advice coming your way. 

[00:00:42] Dori Durbin: As a current at school administrator is able to share with you his insights and observations that will help make that shift less stressful and more fun and proved to be a greater summer for both of you. Listen next.

[00:00:59] Dori Durbin: [00:01:00] So today we have somebody who I know quite well, who has really had several experiences in the education world. His name is Tom Durbin. He is the middle school, junior high school, senior high school principal at Hudson Area Schools. And he, incidentally, is also the father of my children and my husband.

[00:01:18] Dori Durbin: So welcome, Tom. 

[00:01:20] Tom Durbin: It is a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. 

[00:01:23] Dori Durbin: Thanks for agreeing. So one of the things that we bantered back and forth between the two of us was, being in the middle school, especially, parents have a tricky time of making that transition with their kids. You want your child to be done with elementary in a sense, but then there's also the fear of not really knowing what your child is stepping into as they transition into being quote unquote a middle schooler.

[00:01:47] Dori Durbin: So I thought I would have you on to just give us some ideas as far as, what is it that parents can expect and how they help their kids, especially through the summer when we know it's really hard to even think about school. So [00:02:00] first question is, what can parents do to help keep their kids learning?

[00:02:04] Dori Durbin: Through the summer. 

[00:02:06] Tom Durbin: Yeah, it's a really great question, and I know it can be. It can be really daunting to think of a middle score, especially if it's your oldest. And so I love the question what to do during the summer because we don't want learning to stop. But kids need a little break from the routine and all of that.

[00:02:23] Tom Durbin: So I think the best way to do it is to keep things fun and definitely keep them in books like reading, whatever they're interested in. Go to the library, get them on Amazon, whatever it is, but keep printing in front of them. And if you do have a local library like I knew I was at the one at Hudson the other day on a field trip With our middle school students and they have so much more than just reading programs.

[00:02:47] Tom Durbin: They have Lego competitions. They were talking about video game competition just to draw kids in. They have a lot of fun activities. Of course, books and they want to help you and we want to keep. Keep kids reading over the summer. [00:03:00] And then also I think it's really hard to do, especially if you're a working parent.

[00:03:04] Tom Durbin: And there's so many households where both parents are working during the summer, but limit screen time. Okay. Cause actually all the time on the phone, all the screen time, all the video will actually draw away from some of the learning. So limit that may not make you a popular parent, but if the goal is to keep learning, then definitely look at that as well.

[00:03:27] Dori Durbin: Yeah, and I remember hearing, and I don't know the actual statistics, but through the summer, the kids can either get ahead or they can fall behind. And so when you enter a school, no matter what grade they're in, It seems like you would want them to have the most confidence they can entering in, especially into a new environment like middle school.

[00:03:47] Tom Durbin: Yeah, you're absolutely right and given the best advantage to succeed. So keeping them on a schedule. So not sleeping into noon every day. Getting up, getting some activity. You want to break from the normal seven [00:04:00] or eight hours of being in school for sure. And I know as an educator, but I remember as a kid, looking forward to summer so much, cause it was just a break in that routine.

[00:04:10] Tom Durbin: But if you can think of it as like physical conditioning, like when we stop working out for a week, we can feel it, let alone if we stopped for three months. Not only do you just plateau, you actually lose some of that strength and learning is the same way, except it's mental strength. I think too, if parents can read along with their students or ask them how things are going provide those higher order thinking skills and critical thinking skills, problem solving, whatever it is.

[00:04:40] Tom Durbin: Keep their mind engaged. 

[00:04:43] Dori Durbin: So when you are talking about having these skills, I think one of the things that comes to mind was giving kids projects through the summer, figuring out things outside, maybe inside. One of the things that I remember, too, is that It seemed like there were moments where it was just dead [00:05:00] days where there wasn't much going on.

[00:05:01] Dori Durbin: I'm thinking that maybe this is an opportunity for parents to have conversations about what's going on in their kids minds as far as the entering the school year being a middle schooler, being a big middle schooler. Give me your thoughts on that. 

[00:05:14] Tom Durbin: Yeah, I think exactly that. Just asking them, okay, are there things that you're apprehensive about or you're worried about or, anxious about?

[00:05:22] Tom Durbin: I know most schools, if they're like ours, we do a tour with the incoming, we're a 5 through 12 building, so 4th graders came over for a tour, and they have the big eyes, and it's oh, we're with the big kids now, and but we get to Q& A session with them, and I think probably 80 percent of the questions revolved around lockers.

[00:05:44] Tom Durbin: Oh, that's interesting. I know, right? Am I going to do my combination? Am I going to be late for class? And so finding out if they're, this sounds really silly, but even finding out if their student, if your student's going to have a locker with a lock, either [00:06:00] just, the normal combination lock, it's either built in or, like a padlock practice that over the summer, because all the middle schools and I've been in middle school for, almost my entire 28 career at some level.

[00:06:14] Tom Durbin: That is the one thing that, kids get really anxious about, how am I going to do my lock? Okay. And then also, they're going from, knowing one teacher and the teacher walks them down to gym or art or whatever their elective or specialist class is, it's very structured. Now they're going to the middle school where they have six different teachers.

[00:06:33] Tom Durbin: They're responsible for getting themselves to class, back to class, organizing their folder. The teacher isn't doing the take home folder for them at the end of the day. So if you know that your child struggles with that, just simple tasks over the summer, just like helping to build that skill set. And I think letting them know hey, we expect you to do your homework and we want you to be on top of things, but not just talking about it.

[00:06:57] Tom Durbin: But showing it's show and tell [00:07:00] for parents, right? Want you to do your best but how you do that is just as important as, the expectation. 

[00:07:06] Dori Durbin: Yeah, so going back to the lockers, I think that you mentioned made me think about the fears that some of the middle schoolers have.

[00:07:14] Dori Durbin: And I remember even myself being little and having nightmares about I won't have my gym clothes. What am I going to do? I won't be able to eat. I'm not going to ask for help. So these are like some of the conversations that come to mind in my mind. But I think you're right. Like practicing some of those things will alleviate some of that stress.

[00:07:31] Dori Durbin: Let's flip this for a second and say, okay, as a parent who was recently an elementary parent who got to go to all the field trips, who got to go to the homeroom events, brought candy, brought all of those things, what am I facing now? Or how is that changing as a parent walking in as a middle school student compared to what my elementary student.

[00:07:57] Dori Durbin: Opportunities where, there's it's going to be different [00:08:00] for the parents. 

[00:08:02] Tom Durbin: Yeah, that's a great question. And I think it's a transition for parents as well, especially when they're oldest. And I know, too, I. Usually your student, your child, it's cool to have you on the field trip. Now in middle school, it's not so cool to have your mom or dad, aunt, uncle, grandpa, grandma, whoever is head of the household and help raising them.

[00:08:23] Tom Durbin: It's not as cool to have them around all the time, because this is the age where they want freedom. They want a lot of freedom, but they're probably not totally ready for it. So as a parent coming in I think communicating with teachers, Still is important. So if you have an open house night, I know teachers are going to be meeting, 100 different families, but it's important to know that you're engaged in your child's education.

[00:08:51] Tom Durbin: Follow it up with an email. If there's any concerns you have, for your child. I think those are a good time to after you've made that personal introduction to follow up [00:09:00] with that. And then there, there's parent groups, or if other parents that have middle schoolers I call it we need a parent support group for middle school parents, right?

[00:09:10] Tom Durbin: Don't be afraid to ask those questions because all the questions that you may have, somebody else already has or has already gone through it and has some guidance, has some answers. Your question actually makes me think that maybe that's something that we should do. Support group for middle school parents or the first time middle school parents for sure. Just how does life work and how is it different? And most students are not going to remember all the information that comes through. Comes to them through the day, whether it's about field trips, whether they're homework class.

[00:09:42] Tom Durbin: Most of the time when you ask him, hey, how's your homework? I don't remember. They're probably telling the truth. I think the best description of a middle school adolescent student I've heard is it's like a pharmacy is blown up inside them, right? Remember? Cause all the chemical changes, all the [00:10:00] developmental stages are changing.

[00:10:02] Tom Durbin: And that's just, if they don't already struggle with attention span and things like that moms, you're probably going to lose your little boy that you knew that wants to sit on your lap but they'll come back to you. I've seen it happen a thousand times at age 17, something else happens.

[00:10:18] Tom Durbin: It's they come back around like their minds reattach. So I gave you a lot of information there. I apologize. You asked about parents. I gave you a whole lot of other things to consider, but it's not a scary time for parents. Just keep in communication with the teacher in the school and with your son or daughter, with your student.

[00:10:41] Tom Durbin: I know one of the techniques I've learned best from you and I've tried to implement it with others is. Dory, you are great at asking what else? So what else is on your mind? What else happened with your day? Just establish that. With your student and ask him, How are you feeling? What are [00:11:00] you making friends?

[00:11:01] Tom Durbin: Are you finding your classes? What's stressing you out? And then that always what else? 

[00:11:08] Dori Durbin: Yeah, I think sometimes to we expect them to know. What they're feeling and they don't always know because it is also new. They're not, they're still like trying to figure out from day to day what the next thing is or what the next assignment is, or if they're even remembering their locker or their food, whatever, there's so much going on and then they get home and it's like, they can just finally relax and so they may not really even know what they were feeling in the moment during the day until the next day or two it comes out and like chunks later.

[00:11:42] Dori Durbin: And I think that's a hard thing because. I think when they're little, they're just, they chatter a lot more about their day and tell you a little bit more. And then as they get older they're trying to process everything. And so it's not the same flow. So as a parent, you feel like the shell shock because of the routine change, the attitude change, not knowing [00:12:00] what's going on, all of those things.

[00:12:02] Dori Durbin: And really it comes down to a lot of trust on the parent end of trying to navigate their first few, even first few weeks. So that communication piece of it is important, but you may not always get all of the answers right at that moment. 

[00:12:16] Tom Durbin: Yeah, I think that's a great summary of how things go. And it makes me think, like, when we reflect back to our middle school days, like, how many can say, man, that was one of the best times of my life.

[00:12:30] Tom Durbin: Probably not many right because there's so much going on and you have the social and then teachers are trying to, push academics and move ahead and all of it. It's just a lot all at once. All the time. 

[00:12:44] Dori Durbin: The rules you talked a little bit about the rules with middle school versus elementary, and you said, having parents talk in email and ask questions via email, I think 1 thing that people might be curious about is, let's [00:13:00] say, Let's say things aren't going well for your kid and they're struggling at school and you only are going to hear, of course, probably the kid's opinion and maybe the teacher's opinion.

[00:13:09] Dori Durbin: How, as a parent, do you navigate this new structure where you did just previously have 1 teacher and now you have 6? What is the best way, especially coming from an administration perspective? What should I be doing as a parent to talk to the teachers or do I jump to you? What do I do? 

[00:13:28] Tom Durbin: Oh, that's a great question.

[00:13:30] Tom Durbin: And I always say go to the teacher first, because actually when parents call and they either have a concern or question I'll say have you talked with the teacher? Because I can go and talk to the teacher, but then you start to get like those degrees of separation. And I think teachers appreciate it.

[00:13:50] Tom Durbin: When the parents ask them, because when I go and ask them and say, Hey, this parent called, they had a question about this, or they have a concern about this in your classroom. They're like, Oh, I wish they just [00:14:00] would have called me like I could have cleared it up really quick and it just builds those lines of communication.

[00:14:05] Tom Durbin: And we can't we have a a 24 hour rule. If someone emails will get back within 24 hours if not within the same day. Sometimes things happen and we, those get buried, but be patient. And if it is an emergency though, like your child is melting down and they don't think they can come to school or make it into the building.

[00:14:26] Tom Durbin: Those extreme things definitely are real and definitely happen. And by all means, get in touch with the office. Let the principal know school counselor, teacher, all those there's a great system of support ready to help every student a lot of times we just don't know what's going on.

[00:14:45] Dori Durbin: When in doubt, reach the teacher first. And then. If not, then maybe go in and talk to other people if you need to, but start there. 

[00:14:54] Tom Durbin: Start there. Yeah, absolutely. If you don't hear within a day or two, then as a principal, I always want [00:15:00] to know, cause I can follow up and I can help guide the process, guide the conversation.

[00:15:04] Tom Durbin: But if it's something that's reaching like DEF CON 3, from a parent standpoint, for sure call. 

[00:15:11] Dori Durbin: That makes a lot of sense. So topic wise, I know homework is one. Other topics that we need to talk about as parents with our kids before they enter into middle school. And I'm going to set this up a little bit to say that, some schools have completely different buildings.

[00:15:29] Dori Durbin: For middle school and some schools have buildings that have them all encompassing. So your fifth grader might be with ninth graders in the hallway or they might be You know same similar lunch hours or passing each other at least so What are some conversations that you would really recommend that parents have before school starts?

[00:15:46] Tom Durbin: Yeah, on the buses too, right? A lot of schools have K through 12. They only have, one bus route. And so then, if I understand your question is like, how do middle school students interact with. 12th graders or high [00:16:00] schoolers . And what I find is most, most of the upperclassmen are really kind, they're not as scary as what everybody thinks they are when you're we're in middle school, so asking for help, asking for directions but just being, just kind of respect.

[00:16:17] Tom Durbin: When you're passing in the hallway, not to, I don't want to say you can interact with them for sure, but it's just, just give everybody space. But for the most part, I think most people, most students are kind. We don't have, we don't have a ton of problems with 12th graders picking on sixth graders, 

[00:16:38] Dori Durbin: she's 

[00:16:38] Tom Durbin: very peer to peer, that's the most problem.

[00:16:41] Dori Durbin: Yeah. And I think that's good for parents to know that there's not that issue because I don't know, growing up, I think we, at my school, we were always afraid of the upperclassmen and I was an eighth grader coming into the high school. There were always these fears of, what's going to happen?

[00:16:56] Dori Durbin: Are they going to Bully me, shove me in the locker, what does that look [00:17:00] like? And I think that's less and less common and it's more and more just like you said, the respect end of things. 

[00:17:05] Tom Durbin: Yeah, I think when we see with gaming, when they play so many online games with one another and, social media that kids are involved in, I'm not a big advocate for, sixth graders having a lot of social media accounts by any means.

[00:17:19] Tom Durbin: But I think what that's done is lessen that barrier that you talked about oh, are they going to bully them? A lot of kids know one another from the neighborhood, from the bus, from gaming, from different areas. And so those lines have definitely become a lot more blurred, over, over time. 

[00:17:36] Dori Durbin: So let's talk about the positives of middle school. What are some of the fun things that kids can look forward to that maybe parents don't even know get, it's coming down the pipe something exciting for their kids. 

[00:17:48] Tom Durbin: Yeah, that triggers something. I really like how you led into that because As a parent to think that your student is going to tell you everything that's happening.

[00:17:58] Tom Durbin: If you get [00:18:00] 5%, it's a great day. And so when you have some of those fun things, I know at Hudson, we try to do a lot of things. I think a lot of schools do with, the positive behavior. System, so there'll be rewards with that, right? There will be, um, trips, there'll be events.

[00:18:20] Tom Durbin: I think middle school is the first time you might have a middle school dance. Of the things that the principle and the spirit that I'm taking over for, he's done like food truck Fridays once a month, so they'll have food trucks come in and kids can bring their own money and buy stuff at lunch.

[00:18:35] Tom Durbin: And so those type of things, and I, we went to a minor league baseball game as a reward. And so those things we try to communicate with parents and let them know . Because we know a lot of students that, if you send a piece of paper home, it's not coming home, people will get 1000 emails a day.

[00:18:54] Tom Durbin: They don't always get that. So we try to over communicate those things, but I think for students, there's a lot of [00:19:00] opportunities. To look forward to. They have different teachers all day long. They get to have, in middle school you try to do, all kinds of elective classes.

[00:19:09] Tom Durbin: We have cooking classes and we've got, engineering classes and P. E. and weightlifting and band and music. And, it's a time where they get to explore. That's what the middle school times are about, right? Discover your talents and start to develop those. So they can look forward to, a lot different variety of classes, too.

[00:19:31] Dori Durbin: That's, yeah, and that's exciting as a middle schooler. I don't think, I think in elementary you explored things, but in middle school you start to really get your feet wet as to what you're really good at and what you really enjoy. And so that's exciting. So as far as giving parents advice to walk towards the end of summer, I know it's just started, beginning of summer has just started, I'm not rushing it.

[00:19:54] Dori Durbin: Think through summer and think about the end goal of prepping your kids. Do you have one or two [00:20:00] things that you really think that parents would benefit from to just bring the stress back a little bit and just enjoy the summer with their kids? 

[00:20:07] Tom Durbin: Sure. No, that's a great question.

[00:20:09] Tom Durbin: So when we hit August, it's not freaking out time. Oh, my goodness, we haven't done anything for the last 

[00:20:14] Dori Durbin: nothing to prep. Yes. 

[00:20:16] Tom Durbin: Yeah. And so I think just having the end goal in mind if the goal is to send your student to middle school, ready for kind of those challenges. And so when I think, talking through okay.

[00:20:31] Tom Durbin: How are you going to be prepared to bring the homework home, and goes back to just establishing some of those habits. So kids may not like this as much and I doubt a whole lot of kids are listening, to my podcast here with you, but they should be right. But, leaving a list or giving a list of three chores, for the day.

[00:20:54] Tom Durbin: So they have to organize their time and know when things need to be done. So it's those [00:21:00] organization skills and then prioritizing okay, which one's going to take me the longest? Which one's the hardest? Do that first. So then when you establish the homework habit, right? Or even at school okay, I know I have three things to do.

[00:21:17] Tom Durbin: What am I going to do first? What am I going to do second? What am I going to do third, ? I think those types of things help. And then also, what are you going to do to make yourself better each day? Just a little bit even if it's okay, we're going to spend 30, 30 minutes of quiet time, we're sitting, turn off the electronics, put the phone on the counter, whatever.

[00:21:35] Tom Durbin: Grab a book, grab a game, play a game as a family, and then also this is gonna sound maybe a little bit weird too, but structuring some physical activity each day if possible, because physical activity pumps blood through the body, pumps blood through the brain, healthy body, healthy brain, there's so much research about [00:22:00] physical activity . But to be prepared for school, just be talking about it. Okay, you're gonna have six classes. How are you gonna stay organized? How are you gonna find your way? Those type of things. But make it fun.

[00:22:11] Tom Durbin: Don't make it stressful. And really, I caution parents, if you had a really bad middle school experience, Not to portray that onto your student, tell them stories of how bad it was. And if you got bullied and oh, and the teachers were so mean and just, reliving your life experiences before your student ever gets there.

[00:22:33] Tom Durbin: You can set them up for a really negative mindset before they ever get there. And then my last thing I'll share. I don't know how much time we have, but, um, 1 of the best things I think we can help our students do. Do it's gonna sound really weird. It's helping to learn how to fail. And I always worry about the student that has to have perfect scores all the time because that's not they [00:23:00] developed a self image.

[00:23:00] Tom Durbin: I can't fail. I can't get anything wrong. That's not healthy. You're just failing everything, right? That's not what I'm saying, but the learning how to handle oh, I expected to get this. And, I want an A and I got a C or maybe even I flunked class. I didn't. Whatever it is that didn't go right, helping them learn, okay failure is the first step of learning sometimes, right?

[00:23:26] Tom Durbin: How many times did Thomas Edison fail before he got the light bulb ready? Thousands. 

[00:23:30] Dori Durbin: Resiliency, 

[00:23:34] Tom Durbin: grit, all those things are really trendy words, but in essence, like we want strong kids. We want them to be able to handle adversity. In learning how to fail, or when things don't go right, okay, what do we do when that happens?

[00:23:51] Tom Durbin: Here's what mom and dad do, or here's what grandpa and grandma and I do, or, whoever it is, it's okay. More times than not, that's how life [00:24:00] goes when we fail, and it's not the end of the world. We pick ourselves up, and we go. Go on to the next step and we try again. So I just see a lot of students, they hit that wall, something didn't go right, they failed, there's resistance, whatever happened.

[00:24:18] Tom Durbin: And they just wilt, like a flower on a hot day. Like they just wilt. 

[00:24:23] Dori Durbin: I think it's really interesting. I remember Michael Phelps his, I remember this story. I probably don't get all the details, but part of his training was his coach sabotaging his equipment or sabotaging his routine.

[00:24:35] Dori Durbin: And you think about when. You have a middle schooler. One of the first things that seems to happen consistently is lost lunch, forgot combination or homework is at home in the back in the bag on the counter kind of thing. And so you still have to go on with your day. And so it makes me think a lot of that story where if something doesn't go right, a lot of kids will just collapse and [00:25:00] be done for the day.

[00:25:00] Dori Durbin: Like their brains are turned off. They're not paying attention to class. They've had the worst day ever. It'd be great to be able to teach our kids to say, okay. You know what? I don't have a lunch, but I'm going to figure this out because so and so has this, that they'll give me blah, blah, blah, and go on with their day successfully still.

[00:25:18] Dori Durbin: And I think that's where that resiliency and that the failure isn't a failure that stops you. It's a failure that pushes you to find a different way and pushes you to be able to succeed in everything you do in life. And not just that one thing. So I think that's really great comparison too.

[00:25:35] Dori Durbin: And like you said, Albert Einstein, yeah, if he didn't keep at it, we wouldn't have light. Eventually somebody would have found it, but I'm glad we didn't have to wait so long. 

[00:25:43] Tom Durbin: Yeah, no I think you're right. And that just triggered something else so if you're a parent that runs to the school seven times a week because your student forgot a sweater, their lunch, their homework, that goes back to that failure and problem [00:26:00] solving.

[00:26:00] Tom Durbin: Oh, I'm so sorry you forgot your sweater. I can't come to school. What are you going to do to figure that out? They might be a little bit cold for the day. That's gonna, get to the mama's heart, right? Or, oh, you forgot your homework. Yeah, you're gonna have to talk to your teacher and let them know and take a little bit of a penalty, right?

[00:26:21] Tom Durbin: I can think of one of our kids, I think, didn't turn in their homework, didn't get to go on the incentive trip, right? Now it hurts, right? But probably didn't forget homework again. 

[00:26:34] Dori Durbin: Nope. 

[00:26:34] Tom Durbin: Right? 

[00:26:34] Dori Durbin: That's what's 

[00:26:35] Tom Durbin: better about it. So if we're always bailing them out, where do they develop those problem solving skills, those resiliency skills, and how to deal through really that anxiousness, too.

[00:26:47] Tom Durbin: That's just as important, too. Yeah, if you're making more trips to the school than what the school bus is during the week 

[00:26:54] Dori Durbin: that's probably 

[00:26:55] Tom Durbin: a good sign that your student needs to, some self [00:27:00] reliancy will be good too. 

[00:27:01] Dori Durbin: Yeah, and it's going to help them eventually when they get into high school and have to advocate for themselves anyway.

[00:27:06] Dori Durbin: Yeah, 

[00:27:07] Tom Durbin: that's a great way to frame it. You got to find your voice. 

[00:27:11] Dori Durbin: Yeah. Any last bits of advice that you have for parents, Tom? 

[00:27:17] Tom Durbin: Yeah, just, hold on to that those middle school years you'll survive. It'll be okay, the best Description of a middle school besides the pharmacy blowing up I think is they love you they hate you and they love you all within a three minute span and they might tell you that and that, that's okay it's just a hard, it's a challenging time of life, but finding themselves, finding their voice, finding what they're good at.

[00:27:42] Tom Durbin: Every student has greatness in them. They have a talent, and we want to help work with the family to find that so that they can pursue , develop it and launch into that whatever that is after high school. So have fun, get a support group. And pray a [00:28:00] lot. 

[00:28:01] Dori Durbin: Perfect.

[00:28:02] Dori Durbin: Perfect. Thank you, Tom, so much for your time today. And I know you're going to tell us where they can find you if they have more questions. 

[00:28:09] Tom Durbin: Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm on Facebook, but my email is runningprincipal at gmail. com. 

[00:28:19] Dori Durbin: Thank you so much again for your advice and for doing this for me.

[00:28:24] Tom Durbin: You're welcome. It was my pleasure.