[00:00:00] Eric Stevenson: if you're anxious before the games. That anxiety is creating poor performance. That poor performance is creating frustration. That frustration is leading to an unenjoyment of the sport.

[00:00:13] Eric Stevenson: What's the fight or flight response in the, in a state of panic is I need to avoid it. I need to get out of here. I need to run. So the flight is to quit, right? 

[00:00:20] Dori Durbin: Hey parents!This is a sporting episode. And if you have a pen, you might want to grab it because there's a lot of great information coming up soon. In this episode, we'll talk about how you identify sports burnout in your athletes, how you can have them have a growth mindset that continues through their lifetime. And how to talk to them in a way that doesn't add further stress to their already stressed minds.

My guest today is a previous guest who had so much information that I had to invite him back.  His name is Eric Stevenson. He's a licensed counselor and performance coach who works at simply B counseling. He's worked with individuals all the way from middle school up to the Olympics. His goal is to help people achieve their life and sporting goals with less stress and less anxiety. 
Let's listen in.

[00:01:14] Dori Durbin: In terms of parents or kids. Who do you feel experiences the most anxiety during the sports season?

[00:01:21] Eric Stevenson: Wow. That's a heavy question. So who experiences more anxiety during sports season, the parents or the athletes? So I would, I'm gonna add on to that question or have a little caveat to it.

[00:01:35] Eric Stevenson: I think it depends on the age of the athletes and their, and the level they're at. Maybe younger athletes, we're going to see a lot of anxiety on the parents, right? Because parents want to make sure their kids are happy, successful, they're on the right teams, they're competing, they're getting better.

[00:01:52] Eric Stevenson: They're, we get so excited as parents to see our young athletes. succeed and have success that the parents, there's a [00:02:00] lot of anxiety there about Oh my gosh, are they unhappy? Or are they, do they enjoy this? Am I pushing them too hard? Am I not pushing them enough? Do I need to provide them more resources?

[00:02:10] Eric Stevenson: And then, then you see them out there and a lot of times for the younger athletes. Parents are seeing them fail for the first time in their life where they're, my mom would watch me get ran over on the football field when I'm in second grade, I'm sure she wasn't super, maybe thrilled about that.

[00:02:24] Eric Stevenson: At first. And then they're going to see, parents also see kids maybe cry or get really upset because they failed or they weren't successful. I think that's going to create a lot of anxiety for the parents. However, on the flip side, I think when kids get it to middle school, high school and beyond.

[00:02:39] Eric Stevenson: They start to take on the burden of the anxiety more where parents say, Hey, you know what? I'm gonna try to take a step back or try to just help you, as I can, because I think parents learn over time, right? As their kids get older. Okay. I, I let them take the reins.

[00:02:52] Eric Stevenson: But then kids take on the burden. themselves. And that's where, perfectionism, anxiety, their peers, [00:03:00] how peers view them. Are they going to get, are they going to make these elite teams? Are they going to get a college scholarship? So they start to internalize the anxiety themselves. So the younger athletes.

[00:03:09] Eric Stevenson: Probably the parents are experiencing more than anxiety, and then it slowly continues. It doesn't go away, right? I know even if your child is 33 years old and, they're in the Olympics, I'm sure those parents are still extremely anxious watching them and whatnot.

[00:03:24] Eric Stevenson: But I'm sure, but more than likely the older athletes are taking on the anxiety themselves. 

[00:03:29] Dori Durbin: And then what are some of the biggest hesitations that kids have in actually becoming athletes? Do you think there's some hesitation even when they're 

[00:03:36] Dori Durbin: little?

[00:03:38] Eric Stevenson: Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. It's going to be hard to decide do I want to continue? Do I even want to do this? Because there's so many obstacles and challenges and it's, I have a lot of clients and conversations that, that I see where clients are asking me.

[00:03:53] Eric Stevenson: Or asking themselves. I don't know if I want to continue. I don't know if this is for me or if this will be worth it in the end. I think that's [00:04:00] the bigger picture of what we're going to talk about today and athletes and sports and the human aspect is well, if it's if there's nothing if I'm Don't see myself succeeding, or if I think this will be too hard is, is a squeeze worth the juice in a sense, right?

[00:04:15] Eric Stevenson: Is it really what I want, what I want to do? There's so much failure in sports. There's so much adversity in sports. There's so much uncertainty in sports that a lot of times younger athletes are not willing to take those risks. Because everybody, but especially youth today, they want certainty and guarantee, right?

[00:04:34] Eric Stevenson: They want to know if I'm going to study for this test then I better get an A, right? If I'm going to, I'm going to go put in this practice time then I better perform, right? And unfortunately, with school or with sports, a lot of other things you, hard work and doing the right things is great, but there, there just isn't, that guarantee just, It's never given.

[00:04:55] Dori Durbin: Makes that makes 

[00:04:56] Dori Durbin: a lot of sense. And I think it's interesting too, there was a stat that we found that [00:05:00] said 70 percent of the kids who start off in sports end up waiting before they even get into middle school. And there's a question in my mind right away of what's going on?

[00:05:09] Dori Durbin: Why is this happening? Is this it's a mental thing where it's a reason mentally that they're quitting physically what's going on. You had any insights 

[00:05:18] Dori Durbin: to that?

[00:05:19] Eric Stevenson: That's an alarming stat, right? I've heard that one as well. And, seen that and talked about it and 70%, right? And it's whoa, like why are our youth athletes quitting?

[00:05:28] Eric Stevenson: Like what, what's actually happening? Of course we would say, okay something's changing. Something's different, right? What's changing throughout sports? Our. Our children are not really changing as much, right? They're, they're kids. They want to play. They want to have fun.

[00:05:41] Eric Stevenson: They want to get along. It's, there's something that's happening through the coaches or parenting perspective that's changing the kids experiences. So when we research and ask athletes and look at and say, okay what are the reasons for quitting? Okay, there's a multitude but some of the reasons are, it's no longer fun, there's too [00:06:00] much pressure, I didn't get enough playing time I'm not good at it, I don't enjoy it, my friends stopped playing.

[00:06:08] Eric Stevenson: So here's now that's five of the top reasons, but there's a few more. Within there as well. So we look at and say, okay first off, we know that sports are increasing in importance, right? Or at least the perceived value of importance from our youth to say, it's Oh, if you're 78 years old, it's just go play have fun.

[00:06:28] Eric Stevenson: Let's get some ice cream after the game. Where now as I was talking about earlier before we jumped on, it's now there's seven and eight year old national teams and they travel around the country and the parents are paying thousands of dollars for uniforms and coaches. And and there's this belief of perception that the more Yeah.

[00:06:42] Eric Stevenson: Serious that we take this or the more important we make this, we're setting our our athletes up for brighter future when in fact it's probably doing the opposite, which is really hard to understand. It's yeah, it's like, when we look at growth and development over athletes a lot of it is about you got to [00:07:00] enjoy the game, like that's number one.

[00:07:01] Eric Stevenson: You're not going to get better at a sport if you don't love it intrinsically, right? Parents can push their kids to practice, try hard this and that. When I talk to my college athletes and they're putting in 20, 40, 20 to 30 hours of practice, I'm sorry, but if you're not intrinsically motivated for your sport, you're not doing that, like you're going to do the bare minimum.

[00:07:24] Eric Stevenson: And that's it. So kids are quitting sports, right? Because there's too much pressure, right? It says this isn't fun. And, we talked about performance anxiety all the time in the mental game and say Wow, like mom and dad and our coach are making this tournament a really big deal.

[00:07:40] Eric Stevenson: Then, maybe I should make it a big deal. And when they take on that burden, that creates a lot of anxiety. And then, now, they're trying to perform with loads of anxiety. More than likely, They probably won't perform that well. And when they don't perform well, they get angry, they get frustrated, they get down.

[00:07:59] Eric Stevenson: [00:08:00] And when we have youth who haven't really regulated their emotions yet or really understood them that well, if you're anxious before the games. That anxiety is creating poor performance. That poor performance is creating frustration. That frustration is leading to an unenjoyment of the sport.

[00:08:19] Eric Stevenson: What's the fight or flight response in the, in a state of panic is I need to avoid it. I need to get out of here. I need to run. So the flight is to quit, right? So our youth athletes are quitting at numbers higher than we've ever seen because it's just not enjoyable and they get, they're too upset.

[00:08:36] Eric Stevenson: They're, the failure means too much. They're taking it too seriously. A lot of my clients who are seven, eight, nine years old will tell me their stats. And I'm like, here's what I'm hitting. Here's my shooting percentage. Here's my goals for the year. Here's my team's record. Here's where we're, here's where we're ranked in state.

[00:08:53] Eric Stevenson: And I'm like whoa I didn't even, yeah, I didn't even know how to track any of that stuff till at least middle school or high school. [00:09:00] But so that's how we can see it. And I think parents, again there's always, from our first podcast, a good intention there.

[00:09:05] Eric Stevenson: The parents will go to the dinner table with friends and be like, yeah, little Timmy's, he's hitting 400 or he's got one goal every game this. So we're starting when we start to track the stats, the kids follow and the kids do that as well. So we're seeing that there's this increase in importance for outcomes and performance was and when they don't meet those It becomes very discouraging and they quit and then if their friends quit or you have a couple, you have a couple athletes who are playing because their best friends from across the street are playing, if they quit I don't really want to go anymore either because I only, I was only going because it was fun with them.

[00:09:38] Eric Stevenson: Sarah or John or like my friends down the street. So then it becomes this sort of, snowball effect of more and more kids quitting. Yeah, 

[00:09:47] Eric Stevenson: I can totally see that because I think if they don't have that enjoyment to begin with, then they're staying there just because their friend's there.

[00:09:53] Eric Stevenson: That's, it's over, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So if parents are stepping back and maybe this [00:10:00] stat was something they hadn't heard before. And they're looking at their kids and their attitudes about practice, like you were talking about with the college level, even with younger kids. If they're traveling to go to these games and things, how do parents know if their kids are experiencing a sense of burnout from what's going on with their everyday sporting activities?

[00:10:20] Eric Stevenson: Yeah burnout is really difficult. And, the youth sports today, we were talking about this, and this will be a continuing conversation today is the amount of games. That are scheduled, the amount of practices, how long the practices are, the amount of travel, you get back to back weekends, driving out of state, flying out of state just even if it's in state or nearby, it's three games or two games or friday night, saturday all day, sunday all day.

[00:10:46] Eric Stevenson: And A lot of the kids love that because that's like that's why they play. They love the sport. They want to enjoy it. They want to play as much as possible. This is what, this is really what they're doing. But burnout can become a real [00:11:00] factor if we're not careful, right?

[00:11:02] Eric Stevenson: It's especially if the athlete is again, placing this high standard on performance. And if they're time and time again underperforming to their expectations which are garnered by their parents or themselves or social media, if they're underperforming time and time again we almost get into this, this loss aversion mindset of no matter what I do, it's, I'm just going to fail again.

[00:11:24] Eric Stevenson: And what's the point? And if you keep going, you have to go to the games, participate, go to the game, participate, we're going to see burnout. So how parents can start to recognize the signs of burnout, like in their athletes is one, it's okay, you can tell there's like a loss of joy for the sport, right?

[00:11:42] Eric Stevenson: They're not as excited for practice, not as excited for the games, they want to go a little later, or they, they want to go home, like right after the games. The loss of joy, loss of motivation, they're not practicing on their own. They're not asking you to take them, to, to training or extra practices.

[00:11:58] Eric Stevenson: So there's a lack of motivation and [00:12:00] effort there. And then there's just like low confidence and increased out that we're going to see a lot, right? So if this just, this emotional burnt out of Oh, this is just exhausting. And what's the point? So if there's a lot of negative talk in the car ride home or on the way there I'm just, I'm just not good anymore. I lost it. I can't do it anymore. I'm not who I used to be. What's, that's when it's have the conversation to say, Hey, you know what, do we need to take a break? And I think at the highest levels, They're talking about how important it is to take two step away from the game for a few days, a few weeks, whatever that is, and how that's because if you don't, you get into this vicious cycle of I'm working hard.

[00:12:38] Eric Stevenson: I'm failing. I'm not enjoying. I'm working hard. I'm feeling I'm not enjoying it. And you get caught in that vicious cycle. And it becomes super exhausting and then burnout sets in. So it's, and the kids aren't going to be able to necessarily do it themselves because they want to stay in it. They want to continue.

[00:12:52] Eric Stevenson: It's up to the parents. I think to recognize that and see that and say, Hey, you know what? We're going to take, we're going to take a break. We're not going to go, we're not going to go to that tournament next week. And [00:13:00] it's Oh my gosh, like your seven year old didn't go to this tournament, your 10 year old.

[00:13:03] Eric Stevenson: It's Oh, they're gonna, they're not going to become professional athletes, right? It's you know what? It's okay that I know coaches have this, you have to be at every practice, be at every game, this and that. But when you say I think there's something super powerful in parents being like, oh yeah, no, we don't need to go to those games this weekend.

[00:13:16] Eric Stevenson: We don't need to go to that game today, whatever it is. You're conditioning now with your kid that this, sports are great, but they're not the most important thing in the world. We don't need to set our life to the side. And put sports at the top, right? And we get so excited about and so fun. That's it just becomes a common habit.

[00:13:34] Eric Stevenson: But early on, if you lower the importance of sports and say, you know what, we're going to go to most of the games, but if we're struggling and we're feeling burnt out emotionally, we're going to take a break. Okay. Probably good for the kid to just, take a break from it, but it's also good for them to recognize, Hey, you know what?

[00:13:48] Eric Stevenson: Missing a game, missing something here and there isn't the end of the world. And it's okay because there's sports aren't like the most important thing. And in the long run, now this kid's, the child will start to [00:14:00] realize, okay okay, that's it's not as it's not that serious and it can help them take pressure off themselves and hopefully, rejuvenate their motivation back.

[00:14:08] Eric Stevenson: Eric, that 

[00:14:08] Dori Durbin: is like, such a huge piece. I hope people are really listening to that because that is I think when you enter in, especially into the more competitive sports, where you are in those upper levels, or even in high school levels, sometimes there's just such a commitment to the team and the process, and that's a lot of the pressure, right?

[00:14:29] Dori Durbin: And I think if they can teach themselves through you telling them that they need these breaks, if something does happen, I think about my kids with injuries. If they had that experience of taking that time off and still being okay and coming back in and feeling more invigorated, they'll actually accept some of those injuries, even the time off for the injuries a little bit better, because I think from the parenting side of looking at athletes, I feel like there was always this huge fear that taking time off [00:15:00] meant either a somebody else was going to get your spot.

[00:15:03] Dori Durbin: B, you're going to lose your momentum, or C, we're just plain going to get out of shape. That was such a strong fear and not the save yourself, save your body, save your mind end of things, which should have been way more 

[00:15:15] Eric Stevenson: important. Look at school, right? Kids have mental health days now, right?

[00:15:20] Eric Stevenson: Adults have PTO. It's hey, this is important time. It's like, why don't kids get that from, from this? It's sports are stressful. Sports are a full time, commitment. Like what, even if the youth, like we're talking about, it's they just say, you know what?

[00:15:32] Eric Stevenson: I need a few days off. In the long run. It's good. It's good for the mind. It's good for the body. It's good for the soul. And it helps them remember and reevaluate. So yeah, you know what? Okay. I do love this sport. It is hard, but I do miss playing it no matter how good or bad I do.

[00:15:48] Dori Durbin: ​Yeah. And I think there is some physiological perspective of this too, because I think it's every six weeks your [00:16:00] body needs an actual break of some kind. So even if you're on the best plan in six weeks time, you're going to start to break down if you don't take some sort of break, whether it's active break or whatever.

[00:16:11] Dori Durbin: So I, why wouldn't it make sense to be mental too? 

[00:16:13] Dori Durbin: That's beautiful. . Hopefully they're listening to this part, especially , Okay we're talking about some of the negative aspects of sports. To be fair, sports actually offer quite a bit both ways. So what are some of the positive things that you see, especially in your business from sports?

[00:16:30] Dori Durbin: And then what are some of the negative things that pop up with sport? 

[00:16:34] Eric Stevenson: Yeah. Yeah, I think all in all sports is going to have way more positives than negatives. I think that's going to see I, we always encourage whether your kid's an athlete or, they're into video games or doesn't really matter.

[00:16:46] Eric Stevenson: It's, of course that youth, like you're going to get the kids that naturally You know, gravitate towards being really good. And then some kids who are just like, I don't, this isn't for me or whatever, but I think at least trying, definitely at least starting it, whether it's soccer [00:17:00] or T ball swimming, whatever that sport is, it's, there's so many valuable.

[00:17:05] Eric Stevenson: Lessons physically and mentally, whether that's physical health, right? Staying fit, exercising, right? Doesn't matter how much of an athlete you are. These are things that, the medical field strongly suggests that we do what I, we stay active, right? So it's good to continue that lifestyle through, through adulthood.

[00:17:22] Eric Stevenson: There's, there's so many benefits and the bigger the benefits I see other than I'm not going to get into the obvious ones of like health and fitness, like those everybody knows, but if we're looking at that more, mental benefits that we're going to see in athletes, I think the first place that I'm going to start is athletes or being an athlete or playing sports is a really good breeding ground for creating mental toughness because at the end of the day, being resilient and being coming mentally tough.

[00:17:50] Eric Stevenson: Yeah. is through the experience of adversity. And, parents can save their kids a lot through school, through, neighbors that they're fighting with, [00:18:00] through, they don't like, like things they don't want to, they avoid. When a kid is inside the white lines and mom and dad's on the sideline, there's not a whole lot of saving that can be done.

[00:18:09] Eric Stevenson: You're just held back and you become helpless. And the kid has to essentially figure it out on their own. Why am I not playing well? Why is this person being mean to me? Why is my coach not playing me? This, whatever it might be, why are we losing? What's going on? It's a great place. For athletes to learn about themselves, just to think, okay, I'm capable. I'm able to do hard things. I'm able to fight through adversity. It's not that I always need to rely on mom and dad, or I need to rely on others or whatever it is. It's sports at the day, you can't really make excuses. You can't really, you come, you can't really get rescued at all.

[00:18:44] Eric Stevenson: It's you either sink or swim. And I think a lot of times athletes become really resilient. And I think. We can see those mindsets even after high school or college. And, when I was interviewing for jobs after college baseball, all the interviewers were all, Oh, we love athletes.

[00:18:59] Eric Stevenson: [00:19:00] Like we love athletes. Like they have great mindsets, they can handle tough things and stuff like that. And I can't, I didn't at the first, I didn't really get it at first, but now I can see like why a lot of whether they were just, saying that, but I think.

[00:19:11] Eric Stevenson: there's definitely a ton of positives. Mentally, I think teamwork is a huge one, right? Being able to say, Hey you know what, you're going to have to, work with people that maybe we don't like, right? You're going to have to figure out a way to bond, to get along, to make it work to come to some sort of agreement for the benefit of the bigger team, right?

[00:19:30] Eric Stevenson: For the bigger picture. So I think Resiliency is good. Teamwork is good. And then I think that there's this confidence that comes with it as well, right? When we do achieve hard things, right? It builds this self esteem and self belief. And I think when An athlete's been working really hard for something, they're trying a new skill, or they get that first backflip for the first time, or they run a little bit faster, it creates, it gives them this self efficacy wow, I can do this, I can do hard things I can and it creates this confidence, which kind of blends out into other aspects of their life, whether that's with friends or approaching friends or taking on new challenges in the classroom or just in life are definitely some of the positives. The negatives, right? This was, this one I had to think a little bit on, but I like this.

[00:20:16] Eric Stevenson: I like this one. It said, what are the negatives of sports? Okay. And the first place that I started to say, okay there is such thing, believe it or not, as being too competitive. Learning, learning to be competitive is great, right? That competitive by nature is going to help you athletes.

[00:20:33] Eric Stevenson: Be very successful later on in life, right? Wanting to compete. That's what our world is about, but what happens when we're starting to be too competitive, right? We see it in professional sports, the Olympics, stuff like that is we start to cut corners. Cheating starts to take place, right?

[00:20:47] Eric Stevenson: So obviously at the highest levels, that's steroids, that's drug doping. That's little like putting oil somewhere, whatever it is that their equipment cars, like it happens is you look for the, for  the edge over your competition. And at the younger youth sports is cheating, right? Lying about their golf score.

[00:21:07] Eric Stevenson: Oh, I got a 5 when they actually got a 7, right? Or lying about how they're performing to their friends. Or they're starting to cut corners because, again, it's they're too competitive and they identify too much with the outcome and how people perceive them. It's hard to play it.

[00:21:26] Eric Stevenson: Play by the rules and admit that I just wasn't good enough. So the ego says the risk is worth it. Like you might as well try to cheat or lie so that others can see you in a brighter light. So I think being too competitive, can be definitely a negative comparison is also, can also be a negative.

[00:21:45] Eric Stevenson: I think that's, to the more severe ends we might see. Athletes to who, develop eating disorders, let's say because, they're showing to like their body what the way how that compares to the peers on their team. They need to look a [00:22:00] certain way to perform a certain way.

[00:22:01] Eric Stevenson: And it, and then. images, self image and ego can really be destroyed if we're comparing ourselves too strongly to, to our peers and what they're able to do versus what I'm able to do. And when I try to help my athletes say, look, we're all at different levels at different times. And it's, we're always attracted to what can't what can they do that I can't do?

[00:22:21] Eric Stevenson: But more than likely, there's other athletes looking at you. It says you're able to do something that they're jealous of. And a lot of times too much comparison again is is a lot of times in sports can lead to some negativity in terms of their. Their confidence, their self identity, it can really be impacted.

[00:22:40] Eric Stevenson: So those are like the two major negatives that I can see, two or three major negatives that I can see through, through athletes but for the most part, again, I would always advocate sports are great. There's so much positives. A lot of times things that look like negatives at the beginning end up like whether that's adversity, failing, [00:23:00] struggle, those are negatives that are planted, seeds and it's it's, they're in the ground now, they're dirty, it's ugly, but.

[00:23:09] Eric Stevenson: If we give those time and we nurture and water all those failures, all those adversities, that's eventually what, sprouts up to be, this wonderful apple tree or whatnot. That, 

[00:23:19] Dori Durbin: that simple perseverance through that too, I think is so huge and it's interesting what your employer said about hiring people who are athletes because we used to say that about runners because my husband and I ran for a long time and our kids ran.

[00:23:33] Dori Durbin: And we would try to take whatever that failure was and turn it into a positive, but you did it, you overcame it, you got to this point. So I think that all fits really well, and . I'm biased, but ultimately if they can be in the sport of some kind and see growth, that growth mindset and that resiliency are huge later in life.

[00:23:52] Dori Durbin: So what about with you've got a child or an athlete who. Let's go back to that seven year old who is [00:24:00] just, sailing along, doing really well. And then the next year, they're doing okay, really okay. And then the next year, they're not doing as great, not doing as great.

[00:24:08] Dori Durbin: What would you say to that child? And what do you think is going on for them? Because they just their performance is instead of improving is. It's regressing, and it might just be the comparison again, but 

[00:24:20] Eric Stevenson: what would you say? Yeah. So again, I like to answer, I like to answer questions, right?

[00:24:27] Eric Stevenson: Looking at all the factors of it. Okay. So when I read this question, when you let me know the question, I was like okay, there can be a lot of factors that play in here. I think the first place to start and I try to look at the most objective of reasons as possible let's not dive too deeply into it and we say in psychology and counseling, we, let's say, hey let's look at how are we eating, how are we sleeping, how are we, How's our relationships?

[00:24:49] Eric Stevenson: Let's look at the things that we can measure and see on the outside because those will probably have a massive impact. So that's where I usually start. So there I started out, okay, an athlete who is [00:25:00] falling off a little bit, right? They're not the superstar anymore. So I try to, I'm thinking about all of the past clients that I've had, all the past experiences and, readings that I've done and say, okay, the first place I'm going to start the most objective one is puberty, right?

[00:25:11] Eric Stevenson: Wow. Like our bodies is changing for guys and girls. So I might have a gymnast who is small, petite, has total body control. She can, She's really good at, at her competitions. She, starts puberty, right? Starts to, different. She gets taller, limbs differently, puts on some more healthy weight naturally.

[00:25:31] Eric Stevenson: And it's I can't do those same skills I did last year, the year before. And there's some confusion what's wrong with me? What's going on? What's good? And it's but, there's a fit, right? There's a book that's like they always talk about it's tall people typically gravitate towards basketball, right?

[00:25:44] Eric Stevenson: Certain, certain people look like runners, etc. Obviously, we know if the body changes drastically. Over time or quickly, it's really unrealistic to expect them to perform the same that they did the year before, [00:26:00] or maybe two years before, because they're a lot taller. They're a lot different.

[00:26:03] Eric Stevenson: And I think that also plays into other sports. And then we can even look at, let's say, males, for example, we'll say, or females, but males create them more than natural, not muscle through with testosterone, et cetera, where et some athletes will hit puberty earlier than other ones, and some will be left behind, and it's wow, like, why am I also not performing as well?

[00:26:25] Eric Stevenson: It's because your peers are now five inches taller than you, and, a little bit stronger than you as well. So I think that's where we started to say that's probably the most objective, idea to say, this is where people fall off. A second one I would say is. We talked about growth and fixed mindset.

[00:26:43] Eric Stevenson: So if I have, we have an athlete who's in this fixed mindset of Oh, I'm just a good tennis player. Like I'm just really good. Okay. Like it's not, okay, I'm, I can get better. I need to still compete. I need to train. So what happens is early success [00:27:00] creates this fixed mindset that I'm just good at this and I'll always be good at this.

[00:27:04] Eric Stevenson: So what happens is they rely on that. On the, they rest on those orals and say this is who I am. This is what I'm good at. Little. Do they know their competitors who they were beating are like, I want to get better. I need to train more there. And we know, it's like a small little inch thing.

[00:27:20] Eric Stevenson: So if somebody's getting 1 percent better than you every day or every week. Yeah, you might beat them for a while, but as the years tick, they're going to start to surpass you and overcome you. And then again, that client, that individual, that athletes is asking what's wrong with me. Did I get worse?

[00:27:38] Eric Stevenson: What happened? The same. And then the third reason I think, and it's very Connected is early specialization. So if we have a kid who they're, they're both of their parents were amazing bowlers or something. So their kids off to a great start, right? Like they started bowling from, the day they can walk [00:28:00] and they early specialize and they get good.

[00:28:02] Eric Stevenson: But in athletics and sports, we know everybody has their. Peak, right? So you get to that spot. So you might have early success because you started the sport earlier than your peers. But what happens is peers that picked up the sport later now are given the opportunity to get better while you're just getting better slowly because we know the more years you put into a sport, the harder it is to get better, right?

[00:28:28] Eric Stevenson: Because you're getting to like your peak level where other athletes start to catch up, start to reach your peak or start to get better. So that'll also look like they fell off. But it's, a lot of it is what's happening with the athlete? Why are they seem like they're not getting better?

[00:28:42] Eric Stevenson: It can be one or multitude of those reasons. I think like even just a lack of, just a lack of training effort can can be the culprit at times as well. If it's maybe they're not really as enjoying it as much. They don't have that intrinsic motivation. They're just doing the sport because mom or dad wanted them to, or because [00:29:00] they're, they were good at it and people complimented them for it.

[00:29:03] Eric Stevenson: But outside of getting external validation from parents and friends, they don't really care for it and that'll work. But eventually those intrinsically motivated athletes. Who love it and put into the work and want to practice on their own. They're going to more than likely going to pass you at some point.

[00:29:22] Dori Durbin: Do you think that ever caps out anywhere? Let's say somebody is listening and they're like my, my son or daughter just started. Started golf as a high schooler and they're going to progress like you said right away Faster, but then can they continue to progress when they get out of high school and move on?

[00:29:41] Dori Durbin: Is there is a room for them to keep 

[00:29:43] Eric Stevenson: getting better?

[00:29:47] Eric Stevenson: Yes There absolutely is and I think the margins of improvement become smaller and smaller if we look at let's say like the golf, like you were using, like golf for instance. So statistically tiger Woods didn't improve, like for the last 20 years of his like career, like from like 2003 to 2023.

[00:30:06] Eric Stevenson: He really didn't improve at all, but it's because he reached his, his peak level and, professional athletes are, they have. They have all the coaches in the world. They have sports psychologists, nutritionists, personal trainers, fitness coach yeah, fitness coaches, athletic trainers, every little.

[00:30:25] Eric Stevenson: Margin. They're looking for a little bit of the edge, right? No matter what it is, what they're doing. But year to year, it's no, they're pretty much the same athlete. They were last year in the last year and last year. And even if there is improvements, they're not necessarily noticeable.

[00:30:42] Eric Stevenson: So at the beginning, and this is another topic to say why athletes start to get frustrated after a few years is because they see these massive bounds after the first couple years. Wow, I got a lot better this year. I got a lot better again. But now these bounds we get smaller and smaller and smaller.

[00:30:58] Eric Stevenson: And what we know is the bounds get smaller while the actual hours of training increase. And this is now athletes get to this point of, and this is why you have to do it because you love it or intrinsically because now athletes have to get to the point of what's wrong with me? I must have the wrong coaches or I must have the wrong mindset or I must, I'm just must be a failure because I'm not improving like I did last year.

[00:31:23] Eric Stevenson: I'm not improving like I did two years ago. And it's yeah, every, the closer you get to your peak potential, the harder it is to improve and those leaps up to, in, in progress are just smaller and smaller. And that's something I try to help athletes create those expectations prior to that, so that they're not discouraged or upset with it to say, Hey be prepared that it's, Great You're finding a success. You're improving, but you want to move up again. Like it's going to be twice as hard and you're going to move up twice as less. Like it's going to be half the improvement that you made last year. And it's going to take twice the amount of hours to do it because at the end of the day, [00:32:00] professional athletes are pretty much the same. Maybe they get a little bit better here and there throughout their careers, but they've pretty much reached their peak. That's how they got to the level they're at. And then it becomes increasingly more and more difficult to get there, but. But those first couple of years are super exciting because they're seeing massive growth, massive improvements.

[00:32:16] Eric Stevenson: So to answer your question in short, yes, there definitely is room for growth, even after they feel, felt like they've reached their peak. Cause a lot of athletes and clients I see are athletes who reach their potential. Like they're maybe they're really close to, maybe they're in high school or in college or just out.

[00:32:33] Eric Stevenson: And it's okay, this is the best they're going to be. And then. There's like this like moment of what's going on. Like, why am I not getting better? What, what's happening? And that's where it's like, Oh, okay. You know what the, putting in a couple hours a week. Maybe worked a few years ago.

[00:32:49] Eric Stevenson: That's not gonna that's not gonna work after high school, right? That's not gonna work at that level And when I thought I worked really hard in high school and then I got to college and then I realized wow like I'm [00:33:00] doing a lot more training than I would have ever done on my own and I noticed all of those things that I was like good at but not maybe the best I started becoming really good at those small things and I realized there was no magic formula.

[00:33:15] Eric Stevenson: There was no magic saying there was no magic mindset. It was just I did a lot of the boring work that I would have not have done on my own. I did a lot of the really boring stuff. And that's what separates those, to get to that next level or to get that next step in improvement, you have to be willing to put in the really boring hours of training.


[00:33:37] Dori Durbin:  So  interestingly my next question was, what do they have to do to get to that next level? Okay. The other thing that I think about too is, what is it that they have to face obstacles wise? So obviously like that reality that they're not going to improve. Because I have heard so many kids say, I'm going to college so I get better at soccer.

[00:33:58] Dori Durbin: I want to be a faster runner. [00:34:00] I'm going to college to be a faster runner. So it's really interesting to hear that minor improvement there. But as far as their attitudes, their behaviors, what are things that become obstacles when they shift from a high school level into, let's say, a college level or even, younger?

[00:34:15] Dori Durbin: There's still differences. 

[00:34:17] Eric Stevenson: Absolutely. So increasing level of play is always a difficult step to take for athletes. And if they're not prepared right physically or mentally, it can really, create a big adversity for them in their lives. So I think the first obstacle, and the most common one that I see and, it's pretty expected to see is competition, not even just their plane, but even on their own team. So being prepared where you might not be the superstar anymore. Or you might not even, you might not even be the starter anymore. And that's for a lot of times, college teams are full of kids who were the star at their high school team.

[00:34:57] Eric Stevenson: And now you have a team of 20 [00:35:00] people and they're all star high school players. Open your eyes here and it's Whoa, this is, everybody's as good as me. And probably for the first time in their life, they were probably successful through middle school, high school. And now it's Oh gosh, like everybody is as good or better than me.

[00:35:15] Eric Stevenson: And some athletes. Are prepared for that. And some athletes are not right there. They get really devastated, defeated quickly. Cause they're like, why am I not playing? Or I can't compete with these athletes. They're just so much better than me. I don't have what it takes. So they either quit and I see a lot of people will not play their freshman year and they'll want to transfer right away.

[00:35:36] Eric Stevenson: I need to get out of here. I need to go to a better school that appreciates me or they'll just quit the sport altogether and not want to do it. Because if they're not ready for it, the second thing, and I think that comes in line with that, whether this is from middle school to high school or high school to college is Increased fail, increased failures, right?

[00:35:52] Eric Stevenson: You're it's what I always tell let's say for baseball players, it's okay. Like the best hitter in major league baseball might hit [00:36:00] three 30 is their batting average. Okay. When they were in middle school, they probably hit eight 50, right? They were probably getting a hit every time at the plate, but as they get older, you're facing better and better competition.

[00:36:13] Eric Stevenson: So because the competition you're playing is much better. Again, it would be unreasonable to expect that your level of play should transition from high school to college. It shouldn't. Everybody love the pitchers are going to give it more hits, the hitters are going to hit the ball less, you're going to score less points you're not going to get as, you're not going to dominate as much as you, you might have because The gaps between the level of play and each competitor gets smaller and smaller.

[00:36:39] Eric Stevenson: And that's why it's so rare even for a professional athlete to be way above and beyond their level of play and peer. Increased failure is, and again, if we have a perfectionist or an athlete who's relying on their identity and success to validate them, they might not sit well with that knowing that, wow, this next level of high school or [00:37:00] college I'm failing a lot.

[00:37:01] Eric Stevenson: There's something is something wrong with me. Am I not as good as I thought? What am you know, what's going on? And there's a lot of like uncertainty there. And then again, that's just that's going to create more doubt, more uncertainty, potentially less enjoyment. So if they're not prepared for those obstacles mentally getting to that next level, they're going to struggle, right?

[00:37:20] Eric Stevenson: It's going to be it's going to be difficult. And this is when panic takes over and they start changing everything. If they don't run from it and quit or, try to change schools, they'll they'll be like, I need a new, I need new coaching, or I need more lessons, or I need to find a different way out.

[00:37:36] Eric Stevenson: When it's actually it's back to your last question. It's actually, no, you need to recognize that the seniors in college have been doing that. Boring, difficult work for four years and you haven't and you just started right there they were maybe as talented as you when you were a freshman, but just they have the mindset.

[00:37:56] Eric Stevenson: They understand the game better. They've done that boring [00:38:00] work, for four years. And that's going to, give this perception that they are. a lot better than you. And it's maybe they are at that point, but the athletes who I see accept that it's going to be hard, that they might not start right away, that they're going to have to earn their spot and say, okay I'm going to do the boring work.

[00:38:15] Eric Stevenson: And again, because I love it because this is why I play college sports they're likely to survive it and adapt to the change because the game gets faster the success gets lower. And again if you're playing because You, you just live for the success and the glory.

[00:38:31] Eric Stevenson: It's not gonna be enjoyable for long. 

[00:38:34] Dori Durbin: That's that's such a good perspective. And I think you're right though, I think that a lot of kids do go in with that kind of the deer in the headlights experience of Oh my gosh, there are 20 other people who are just as good as me. And it sounds like it's the little things like you were describing just a second ago.

[00:38:51] Dori Durbin: But there must also be like a confidence and like this this mental clarity of what they have to do and what this looks like to because I think when you come [00:39:00] into something new, you have no idea. So it's that shock factor 

[00:39:03] Eric Stevenson: to right? Absolutely. I think why I always encourage my athletes to an athlete will say I'm not going to sign up for that tournament.

[00:39:11] Eric Stevenson: I'm not ready. And I'm like, no, that tournament is going to absolutely expose why you're not ready, right? That's what people want to see. This is what we need, right? And it's a lot of times athletes can, in high school, I would say even middle school can get away with stuff because they're bigger than their peers or stronger or they're taller or they're just, more athletic in a sense.

[00:39:33] Eric Stevenson: But when you get to that higher level, your blind spots, we talked about this in psychology as well, your blind spots are going to be exposed. It's oh wow, maybe I'm not as. Maybe I can't just rely on my talent anymore. Maybe I can't just rely on my power anymore or my strength. So when you go against better competition, and this is why I always discourage perfectionism, because if you, if your team is undefeated, that's great, but more than likely, everybody on your team didn't get much better that year.[00:40:00] 

[00:40:01] Eric Stevenson: Because you didn't play against competition that exposed your weaknesses. You only just beat everybody, right? And this is why, if it's in the right conditions, this is why a really good freshman in high school gets moved up to varsity. That's a really huge advantage for them because They're on the freshman team.

[00:40:19] Eric Stevenson: They would dominate, but on varsity, they're going to look bad. They're going to get, they're going to lose. They're going to be exposed, but they're going to have a bunch better chance of improving as an athlete throughout their high school career because they play hard competition. And that's why I strongly encourage parents and even athletes I work with to lean into the difficulty and failure.

[00:40:41] Eric Stevenson: Because that is, this is what you need that to expose, to say, wow, okay, I need to improve in this area, I need to improve in that area. And when you know what you need to improve upon, and then you are willing to put in that time and effort, that's then when you take that jump, and now you can look in the mirror and say, wow, I'm definitely better than I was last year and the year before.[00:41:00] 

[00:41:00] Eric Stevenson: So those 

[00:41:00] Dori Durbin: kids that are in parents who are taking a second look at what's going on and saying, okay, my, my kid isn't doing as well. They're feeling like failures. Really what you're saying is if they stay in it and they figure out where those flaws are, it will ultimately 

[00:41:15] Eric Stevenson: be a success.

[00:41:17] Eric Stevenson: Absolutely. And I think that's What I always encourage and like what you were saying is if your kids, if they're struggling, if they're failing, if it's difficult to, be careful not to just rush and bail them out and say, let's go change teams. Let's go change coaches.

[00:41:31] Eric Stevenson: Let's bring, let's change the, level you're at. It's a really good opportune time to sit down. Map it out and say what what's going on here? How what can we do to improve? What do we need to work on? What do we need to do? And a lot of times it's sitting through failures, discomfort, frustration, anger.

[00:41:48] Eric Stevenson: But I think any, at least my, let's say my athletes are who are, college level athletes will look back and say, yeah, throughout middle school and high school, like those challenges, those hard coaches, those failures, those [00:42:00] uncertainties, those are what allowed me. To be the athlete. I am today.

[00:42:05] Eric Stevenson: Those are the experiences that I need it, right? Because just going through sports with no adversity. Just yeah, you're really good. You're very successful. Everybody likes you. Okay, go. You're very good. You're successful. Everybody likes you. You get to your freshman year of college and bam, there you go, everybody's as good as you haven't experienced that adversity more than likely that athlete that's going to be back at the top of my list.

[00:42:29] Eric Stevenson: That'll probably either play with extreme levels of performance anxiety because they don't know what's what happened to them, or they'll want to quit walk away from the sport, or they'll just like they did with other things is those want to transfer. It's not me. It's got to be. It's the coaches.

[00:42:44] Eric Stevenson: It's not me. It's. The program they're against me and they'll want to transfer out and, get to a different school. Yeah. 

[00:42:51] Dori Durbin: Wow. I'm thinking in the back of my mind, there's so many people who are going to want to talk to you about all this. So that's good. That's good. Good to college. Yes. [00:43:00] So if you're going to give advice to parents about how mentally sports healthy their kids are right now, what are three to five steps that you would.

[00:43:10] Dori Durbin: Notice or make observation wise with their kids. So what can they do to assess 

[00:43:14] Eric Stevenson: that. Yeah. So I love assessment, right? That's what I, that's what I do as my job, right? I'm assessing where my clients are right mentally and whatnot mental health sports, etc So I encourage parents to do what I can't do on the outside, right?

[00:43:28] Eric Stevenson: I can take them through a formal assessment ask them these series of questions And you know levels scales 1 through 10, etc. But what I say is okay, let's start here What's the most the easiest most obvious way to assess your child's, sports mental health is? observation, right?

[00:43:43] Eric Stevenson: Really pay attention to changes that are happening. Is your child practicing less, right? Are they not as interested in it? Are they, are you noticing increased anxiety? Are you seeing them stress more in the car or, talk about how they're [00:44:00] nervous or worried about today's game? Are you seeing increased level of Self criticism and anger, right?

[00:44:07] Eric Stevenson: Like I'm awful. There's something wrong. I can't do this anymore. We're saying, okay, it's like, what's, what are the changes? I'm used to seeing my child act, behave this way, whether that's through success or through failure. But now it's a little bit they're angers more than it used to be.

[00:44:21] Eric Stevenson: The anxiety is a little bit more than it used to be. What's going on here to pay attention to interactions with their teammates, right? Do they after the game, are they, do they want to just. Go home. They don't want to go to dinner with the team. They don't want to eat. I just want to go home. I want to get out of here.

[00:44:35] Eric Stevenson: It's there's something deeper there. They feel like they've let down their team or they're really upset with themselves. They're anxious to be around their teammates. So they just want to escape. They want to go home, right? These are telltale signs because there's, Athletes are going to fail.

[00:44:46] Eric Stevenson: Athletes are going to be angry, but if they can accept that and say, you know what, like it's, that didn't go well and I'm disappointed, but yeah, let's go eat dinner with the team or let's go, do this thing after. If it's a break in between games and your athlete isn't around the team [00:45:00] or they're isolating or they don't, they're just, they're, their interactions are changing.

[00:45:03] Eric Stevenson: These are the telltale signs that like, There might be something going on here about their relationship to the game and to themselves. That's maybe deeper rooted than just they're struggling here. I think that's definitely where our we'll start as observant, is physical observation and just paying attention to your child.

[00:45:19] Eric Stevenson: The second one being this was made more of a direct approach is to actually just talk to them, right? I know a lot of kids are going to be like, I'm fine. It's great. Don't worry. All right, like that's going to happen. But what I always say, and again, not on a game day because that's because, I always say to have these conversations on a day that's, they're mentally in a place that's, they're ready to accept the information, they're ready to accept the questions, is to talk to them and ask them, say, how are you doing?

[00:45:46] Eric Stevenson: Like, how are you doing with the sport? How do you feel like the season's going? What are like, what are you getting better at this year? What do you feel like you're still struggling with? To just ask these open ended questions, like what's something you want to improve?

[00:45:58] Eric Stevenson: Where's an area where you're, [00:46:00] frustrated with, and you'll get a lot more information. You'll get a lot of information, especially if you ask it on a day, that's. Again, it's not a game day and you might, they might talk about coach yells at me at practice a lot and I don't know why, or I'm just like, I'm just not as good anymore.

[00:46:16] Eric Stevenson: And I think my teammates like talk badly about me. And. And it's, again, it's hard to get, open and, responses from your athletes, but if you find the right time if you find the right questions you'll learn a lot about where they're at from a mental health perspective Oh, no, things are going well.

[00:46:34] Eric Stevenson: I know I'm struggling here, but I'm improving at this and practicing at it. They're probably in a good space, but, if they have a little bit, Okay. Deeper worries or lot of negativity there, their mental health might, at least in terms of sports might be suffering as well.

[00:46:48] Eric Stevenson: And then I think the third, let's say the third one of this kind of goes with observation is just listen, right? Just listen to your child, right? What are they saying? What are they saying to themselves? What are they [00:47:00] saying on the field? What are they saying in the car ride home? What are they, what are they saying?

[00:47:04] Eric Stevenson: When they're with their friends talking about the coaches talking about the game. I think if you just really pay attention closely and listen, you'll gain a lot of information that otherwise you might miss and and it's hard to really know what your athlete's going through I think they hide it I know they do right because you know parents will We'll say they're happy.

[00:47:22] Eric Stevenson: This is great. And they'll come into my office and be like, I'm miserable. I hate this. This is awful. And they hide it because they don't want mom and dad to know or see. Oh, mom and dad, drive all over the town, all over the state for me. They pay a lot of money. They, it makes them happy that I'm playing, but I hate it.

[00:47:39] Eric Stevenson: I'm so bad. I'm miserable. The practices are too hard. My teammates don't like me. Really difficult to get the full assessment from the parents point of view. And that's why you have to try to pay attention to the small cues body language on the field, body language at home, right?

[00:47:56] Eric Stevenson: This observation listening? And I think [00:48:00] if you observe enough and you listen enough and something is. Making you wonder that's a good time to just talk to approach them at the right time and say, Hey, what's going on? I notice you're, looking pretty frustrated lately with how the games are going.

[00:48:14] Eric Stevenson: Tell me about that. Let's talk about that. Or, what do you think's happening? And I think when you approach it in this really non judgmental, open ended type question formatting hopefully your, the kid is going to be, the child's going to be more likely to give you, an honest assessment of where they're at principally.

[00:48:30] Eric Stevenson: They're probably a 

[00:48:31] Dori Durbin: little nervous to let you down, I bet, too, I could see our kids doing something like that where they don't want to tell you that they're really struggling because they know how happy you are for them. So that gets a little tricky. So yeah, that's really good to be able to come at it from, a question instead of an assumption that they're going to, they're going to take to heart instead.

[00:48:52] Eric Stevenson: And I think even acknowledging that before you ask the question or while you're asking to say. Hey, I [00:49:00] know you might want to do this for me, or I know you think this is what I, why I love you, or why I care about you but it's not I'm only driving you here because this is what you, this is what I believe you want.

[00:49:11] Eric Stevenson: If that's not the case, or if, if you want to talk about something else let's do that. But a lot of times, No conversation leads to assumption on the child's part, right? And I've never, I never told my kid that it's important to me or that I love them no matter what. It's if you just go to the games and then you get all excited and you wear the team's colors.

[00:49:33] Eric Stevenson: And without saying anything, your parent, your kid's just going to go that's what the brain does. It assumes as quickly as possible, it creates these subjective realities. And it says, Oh, wow, look at how excited mom or dad are coming to the game and cheering and talking about it to their friends or talking about in the car at home.

[00:49:48] Eric Stevenson: This must be super important to them. Therefore, it has to be important to me as well. And it's go to the game, cheer them on, be an awesome fan. But you have to let them know [00:50:00] that it's not why you love them. It's not why you care. You are totally on board to help them through, leaving the sport, changing the team, whatever it might be.

[00:50:08] Eric Stevenson: You have to let them know because again, they're not gonna bring it up on their own. And they'll just assume. And a lot of times. I'll ask my clients, I go, Oh how do you know that? Do you have proof? And they're just like, no, I just do. I just know. So a lot of times they'll just know, although they'll just have that sense.

[00:50:26] Eric Stevenson: So I think it's important for the parents to self, to check in with themselves and say they should know that I love them no matter what. It's a lot of them don't. Unfortunately. And that's the reality. You do have to reestablish and remind them that this isn't why you love them.

[00:50:39] Eric Stevenson: This isn't, they don't need this validation for you. And that kind of goes back to where we started, which is Hey, taking a break from a weekend tournament that then reinforces the message. Oh, mom and dad are okay with me missing a game or two oh, maybe this isn't everything to them and to us.

[00:50:56] Eric Stevenson: And in the long run, there's tons of benefits for it. 

[00:50:59] Dori Durbin: [00:51:00] That's awesome. Awesome 

[00:51:01] Dori Durbin: advice. Eric, 

[00:51:02] Dori Durbin: I just want to thank you because you have so much valuable information, and I know parents are going to want to find you and possibly even talk to you.

[00:51:10] Dori Durbin: So where should they look? What's the best way to get a hold of you? 

[00:51:13] Eric Stevenson: Absolutely. So the company that I work for, the private practice in Illinois, and it's called Simply Bee Counseling. So if they just head to that website it's Simply Bee with two E's at the end, like the insect. So Simply Bee and they'll be able to find me under, underneath the team and I'll have my information. My contact information is on there. So if they want to reach out, ask questions they can directly email me they're right. I at my at my simply be email. Yeah, more than healthy to help. I do parent parent sessions as well.

[00:51:41] Eric Stevenson: During the day to help parents guide them with their athletes because I know it can be really tough. And again, I always think it's so vital because I can see an athlete one hour a week or one hour every two weeks, but the parents are with them all the time, right? The parents are with them at every game, at every practice, in the car rides.

[00:51:58] Eric Stevenson: It's if I could, if we [00:52:00] can, get parents to be the mental coaches that's going to have more of an impact than seeing a mental coach, once an hour every few weeks or so. Thank you for having me as always. I always love doing this.

[00:52:11] Eric Stevenson: Hopefully there is, value for the listeners as well. 

[00:52:14] Dori Durbin: Oh, this is great. Material is great. Thank you so much, Eric, for your time 

[00:52:18] Eric Stevenson: today. You're very welcome. 

And I'll see you guys in the next video. Bye