Dori Durbin: Welcome to, that's Good Parenting, the podcast that searches for simple steps to reduce your parenting stress. I'm Dory Durbin, children's book illustrator, book coach, ghost writer, and podcaster. So we know that parenting isn't simple. As a matter of fact, sometimes it can feel emotional and even overwhelming.

This is, especially if your child is struggling and the usual advice just isn't working. As someone who helps experts turn big adult ideas into kids' books, I'm always thinking about how complex concepts live inside a child's body. Brain and daily life, and how parents can help their kids feel confident.

Today's conversation is a particularly important one. Our guest today is Stephanie Ford. She's been an occupational therapist for over 20 years working with children, adults, and families, where daily life often feels overwhelming. Her work focuses on helping people function in those everyday moments, not just managing.

So for our listeners who are just getting to know you, Stephanie, can you [00:01:00] share a bit more about who you are? The families you support and what typically brings you to your work?

Stephanie Ford: Yeah, sure. Thank you so much for having me. It's lovely to chat and I think one of the biggest things for me is that knowledge is power and sometimes we can get overwhelmed with knowledge because we get take on so much.

But I think one of the me major things that I have found over time is that it's about having the knowledge and knowing how to use it. Because we can have lots of information and we can sometimes feel really overwhelmed by how much information we now can access and how many information and how many different perspectives we can get, but how can we use that knowledge to actually make us have tools and make us feel like we have ability to do the things we need, and so often help our kids to have an easier day.

[00:02:00] And not just struggle or we all argue through the day how can that information actually add value to our day?

Dori Durbin: I love that. You're right. We're overwhelmed with so much information. It's hard to sort through it and yeah. And it's, I think it's even harder when you're in the middle of chaos of something not working and then you're just grasping at what's the quickest, best thing that you can think of.

Stephanie Ford: Right. And it might not be the best thing. Yeah, absolutely. And I think sometimes too, we. We know clinically that changing behavior for any human takes time. But when we're in the midst of chaos, we need it to be different yesterday we sure need it to be different tomorrow, but we look at how we are likely to take, make change in ourselves and our children.

That's gonna take repetition. And it's often gonna take [00:03:00] capacity to be able to make those changes or adjust something. So it is often a really hard space to sit. But knowing that we can and how to navigate that can be such a big game changer for ourselves as parents and adults and then our kids as well.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Having a plan makes all the difference, right?

Stephanie Ford: Yeah. Yeah. And plan B, and plan C and plan B because just 'cause we have Plan A does not mean they're all gonna come along, um, on our plan.

Dori Durbin: Yeah, actually I was gonna bring that up because I think there's so many parents who are listening right now that might be like trying to get to school on time for once and managing, you know, the transitions between school and home, work and school, all those things.

And it's hard to keep everybody, even just like on the same path. So like when families come to you, what are the most common day-to-day struggles that they're having in their daily [00:04:00] lives?

Stephanie Ford: Absolutely, and I think it often depends on the different stage for kids. So obviously if we're talking little kids it's very different to, we're talking school aged children and then we're talking older teenagers.

But I think. So often it's the getting the daily tasks done, I think is probably the common theme across all ages. You know what those tasks are changes but actually getting them done and. Them done in a timely manner. I think probably is the most common difficulty. You know, we'd go from kids getting out the door.

We've got kids who, you know, primary school kids getting their school bags and getting breakfast and getting dressed and getting on the bus or getting in the car. 'cause you need to be at school. We have a timeframe. Oh, I don't wanna get. Um, and then teenagers, you know, could you get your washing on? Could you do your homework?

Then could you get [00:05:00] to have a shower? Can you get outta the shower? Could you go to bed? So I think that daily tasks and be, and doing them without an argument and a fight, and 10,000 reminders is often where we have so many conversations. And unfortunately there's not just one answer. Um, you know, I think sometimes people also would just like a quick fix, just tell me what to do.

But clinically that's gonna be different for each individual. It's gonna be different for each family. And unfortunately it's even for each individual, it's gonna probably be different each day because there are so many factors that contribute to that being possible. And for that to actually flow and be initiated and make sense for them.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Yeah. It's com it's just, like I said, it's complex, it's not simple. .

So, Stephanie, a big part of your work is helping [00:06:00] families understand how the brain, body and the emotions all work together.

And I'm, I'm kind of guessing with that, that once. That's understood. Then there's a lot less nagging and frustration going on from there. So how do you help parents and families understand what's going on in a child's brain and body? Um, especially when they're inconsistent in how they react?

Stephanie Ford: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it is a really big part of what I do because. All of those brain, body, emotions, hormones, sleep senses all of those things are going to be contributing factors to how someone gets through their day and how they then do tasks. Being able to understand that and that help, um, absolutely is the goal.

It is often something that's not just a single one-off kind of thing because it is about one, each individual. Um, understanding more [00:07:00] and understanding why things happen, but also then we work towards that as adults. We increase our skills to do that, to mean that we then are there and are able to help our children to self-regulate and to be able to self-identify.

Identify, but also then my thing is we then need to have a, what do we do about that? Mm-hmm. Because it's one thing to know that, something's overwhelming, but it doesn't mean that it's never gonna happen in the world around us. So if we know something is overwhelming, what can we do about that?

Because that then means we can have a better ability to function. And that NOT is what it's about, is it's about people functioning well and doing the tasks that that we need to do, doing them in a way that works for us, and being able to take control of our environments [00:08:00] as best we can, or to take control of ourselves in that variety of environments in the world.

To be able to function. So really that comes back to your, if this then answer B, answer C, answer D. Yeah. With the pattern.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Having totally tools. Interesting. Yeah. And I can see where a parent could really either enable the situation or disarm the situation very quickly if they don't have enough tools.

Stephanie Ford: Yeah. And it can be also that sometimes. What we see and predominantly like when we talk about psychologists and behavior people, we look and we see the thing that we is presented to us on the surface, but often we need to have that capacity, as we said earlier, to take that moment as the grownup and go.

Where does that come from? Like why is that what I'm seeing? [00:09:00] Because often the behavior, and I will say in inverted commas or the actions usually is driven from something else. So, you know, we've got a child who takes forever to put their shoes on, they wander and they, they could, you walk two steps faster because you're gonna miss the bus, it's gonna be late.

Um, you are gonna. And so we see that action, but what we have to sometimes look at is. Why is that taking so long and so hard? Is it that you know the bus is really noisy and they hate sitting on the bus because there's kids out loud, there's movement, there's people moving all the time. There's stuff moving past the windows really quickly and that's actually really overstimulating to start their day.

So is it actually that there's something that is. Beyond the [00:10:00] action that drives us to despair as a parent, that we actually could be looking at the why is this, what they're doing. Not putting on their shoes is what we first see. Is that the predominant, just put your shoes on. It's gonna be what our response is.

I

Dori Durbin: think that's what's so hard as parent is that you don't know all the pieces. And especially when you shift locations, you shift, you know, like, okay, if, if you're in the house, you know what most of the variables are. But as soon as the house is not part of the situation, all of a sudden there's so many variables that you have no control of or maybe have no knowledge of.

And it, it just really, it makes it so much more complicated. So, yeah, I really appreciate that perspective of what is it? You know, is it the bus is too loud? Is it the kid on the bus Isn't nice? Is it the bus driver isn't friendly? Who knows? You know?

Stephanie Ford: Totally. And is it even that, it's even further than that, is it that, you know.

The classroom's really hard and they're finding it really difficult to learn. Yeah. And so it's another delay [00:11:00] tactic because it's driven from their emotions that are that the day is gonna be hard and are not gonna do well. And so then we've got emotional driven responses, um, that then are going to be a fight or a flight response.

Um, and then we, then we to kick into those adrenal responses that really are quite overpowering to most things. We as a parent just see that I need you to put your shoes on and get out the door, um, which is reality and it's absolutely important. But if we can see and understand, take notice of the why, then sometimes that task can become less difficult because we can talk about, and we can manage and we can support their emotions, or we can support their sensory input to mean that that task is less difficult.

Dori Durbin: So walk me through this just for a second. Let's role play this just 'cause I'm curious what this would sound like. Let's say it is the shoe [00:12:00] thing and let's say there is a bus issue and maybe, maybe mom doesn't know. How would a mom work through that so that it's not just a fight about the shoes?

Stephanie Ford: Yeah.

I think it's a really, and I think as we said earlier, it's having the capacity ourselves and then having. The space and the awareness and the, the change of our own responses and patterns to mean that, you know, when we're instinctively going, just put your shoes on, um, we actually create that space to go, mate, this looks really hard.

Like you do this really well when you're racing out the door to play on with your, on your bike, with your mate. How come today is really difficult because it seems very different to, you know, and it's sometimes too about not telling them they're doing it wrong. But asking and noticing and showing them that we've noticed and we see their pattern of behavior.

So it can be that, how come today it's really difficult? [00:13:00] And actually on Tuesday it was really difficult. But you know, on Wednesday when it's Sport Day school, it seems much easier. So it's being able for them that to be an open conversation around, oh, I really don't like the kids on the bus today because they're really noisy and, and I don't like the bus ride.

So creating that open conversation, but also sharing and helping them to go what, like, you know, hair hoping, helping them to see what they do because when we're the doer. It's just feeling like it's a survival response or it feels natural, but when we can observe and be shown and reflected. We also can take that as a learning point to go, oh, well yeah, I do kind of put my shoes on really fast when I've gone to my bike on the weekend.

Um, you know, which is inevitably what happens. So being able to then go, oh, because I wanna just go outside and I [00:14:00] wanna be with my friends but I don't wanna get on the bus 'cause it's really noisy and it takes forever. So it creates that understanding and then that can then lead to, it's really noisy.

Oh, well, would you like what if we had earplugs when you got on the bus? To mean that then we can manage the input that is creating the difficulty or, you know, that so and so's mean to me. Okay, so you know, where do you sit on the bus or I sit in the middle of the bus. What about if you sat at the front of the bus?

Is there someone at the front of the bus you could sit with and then it wouldn't be as noisy because the door will open and the dust driver is there. To mean that then you can work together as a team to again, identify the difficulty and then create a response rather than it just being, oh, that's terrible, because then as a child, they're like, yeah, and I have nothing to help fix it.

But they obviously haven't self determine how to make that easier. So they're [00:15:00] kind of needing us to help them with tools. Suggestions to mean that then they've got options and you know them utilizing options is gonna take repetition. But if we've started to understand and we can start to put ideas down there, then we can only hope that they will then find those and and recall those when that happens for them and it increase their self-regulation.

Dori Durbin: I love that. I love that. And having those tools is what you work with parents and families on. Those tools. So one of the things I wanted to ask you about, I was really curious Stephanie, is with your occupational therapy training. I've had lots of physical injuries. My family's gone through lots of physic, physical injuries.

It doesn't even have to be an injury. It can be just something physical that you feel like is deficient. And I think about that with families where you're working with kids that have something going on, um, how that [00:16:00] neuroscience help you to retrain their confidence in reclaiming what they can do and can't do.

And I know this all kind of fits together.

Stephanie Ford: Yeah, sure. So look, and the amazing part of occupational therapy is that often because it's such a broad profession, people have known an occupational therapist in a hospital setting or in a physical response. But occupational therapy is actually about the whole person and all of our function.

So obviously then that means that we're like, we often have mental health OTs. So there's nothing physical going on. But because we look at how someone functions, we look at that in the lens of their emotional responses and their processing, um, and their task completion. Not necessarily 'cause there's a physical barrier because there's actually a cognitive barrier.

So we look at cognition and physical and emotions and the whole person. And so for the work [00:17:00] I do, that means that we look at. The trauma responses that people are having, the emotional impact that those trauma experiences might then instill in them, which then means that we also look at the sensory processing because that's so much about what information the brain is taking on from our world.

And then what that impact has on our emotions and our executive functioning and our information processing. Because if our brain is overloaded and overwhelmed by the information around us, it's going to go into a survival, safety response. Which means that then when you're sitting in a classroom and the teacher's giving you lots of instructions and you're meant to then recall that and action it, but your brain is actually going, oh my gosh, there's people everywhere.

And it's really bright. It's probably taken on about two words of that instruction. Which then means that kids are exhausted from trying to then pick up the pieces of what are they doing? What am I [00:18:00] supposed to be doing? The neurosciences around how the brain and the body are interconnected and how that then allows or can be affecting how we actually take on information and then perform tasks that we are kind of expected to be doing.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. You just taught me a whole lot in just moments. I honestly thought occupational therapy was limited to the body. I never realized that it was like the whole person. That's amazing. That's such a cool thing. 'cause I, I think about that scenario that you, we just brought up earlier about the bus situation.

There could be a dramatic event that happened that is causing the brain to react in that way. And that's, that's exactly what you're describing here.

Stephanie Ford: And trauma in itself. We often, again, think of like major trauma, major incidents, but trauma is also that something has gone. A way that is [00:19:00] not valuable or positive.

Mm-hmm. And so if that action, so, you know, as you say the bus, there may have been an incident where, you know, a kid's being bullied on a bus that actually then instills an emotional response that isn't developmentally natural on what we would expect for them. And so therefore it is a, a traumatic event for them.

And unless we actually. Help them to understand and be okay with that happened and this is your chance or opportunity to be in control of what happens next, or then it can still sit within our being and then within our conscious or even subconscious mind that is a a risk. So that is a survival that is a fight flight response needed because our brain will recall.

That event and that traumatic event. So we need to then understand and or know what those things are to mean that [00:20:00] we can then again, create strategies, have tools to mean this is feeling like I'm going to get worried about this because it feels like when that happened. Mm-hmm. So when I feel like this is the point I go to sit behind the driver.

Hmm. This is the point. I'm at school and I go to the office. Because then that means I don't have to experience that experience again, because otherwise we don't have tools. And then if we have that repeated trauma, then that has even bigger effects.

Dori Durbin: Oh, okay. My mind is reeling through this very quickly because.

I think this is like a situation where it kind of takes me back to the beginning where I asked you when families, what families bring you. Um, how then do parents know that there's such an issue going on versus, oh, my child's being stubborn and obstinate, they don't wanna do things. What are some cues that parents could [00:21:00] discern the difference between.

A reaction like that and just not wanting to do something.

Stephanie Ford: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it comes back to, which we mentioned before, it's that having our capacity to mean that we create a space to understand the why. So often in the moment where it's not working or the child's having a really big response is not the time to go, why don't you like doing this?

'cause you're gonna get a really big response back. Lots of information then talks about making them sure that they feel safe and they feel supported and they feel secure in whatever that event is happening that they have some really big emotions about, and then later being able to go that looked like that was really hard and I'm, I'm wondering why that was hard because it's hard for me to see you feel like that.

And it's hard for us to get out the door, and I know you really wanted to do that. [00:22:00] It got really tricky and we didn't get to do that the way we thought we were. Do you like, you know, is there something that's different or is there something that makes that feel really yucky? That we might be able to do differently next time?

Because the more that we understand about the person and the more we under and we see the patterns, and I think that's probably the biggest part because when I often talk to families and we do an assessment and we do some conversation and observation. They'll often then say to me, oh, they've always done that.

Oh, they do that everywhere. Okay. So they're the, that's the patterns to notice, you know, we go to the supermarket or we go to the mall, or you go to a fair Oh, and they're always so hard. And it's always dramatic. Okay. So what is the similarities between those things? You know, the, the big shops, a carnival, all those things.

There's lots of people. There's lots of unpredictable [00:23:00] noise, there's lots of movement. So if we then go, but if you go to like just a single shop and it's really quiet, do they have the same response? They're fine. They'll just walk and push the trolley. Okay. So that's the pattern that we wanna notice.

Because that's telling you and that's giving that way. You also as the grownup can go, oh, you know what? I really noticed something. You know when we go to just go to the little shop around the corner, you find that much easier. You are able to tell me what we needed. You even go, mom, don't we need milk?

Yes mate, we do. But if we were to go to the big shop, you are on the floor, you'd like to be under the trolley rather than pushing the trolley, they start to go, oh, you're right. I really don't like that place. And you can then have that awareness together to go, you know, do we wear loop plugs to go earplugs to mean that that noise doesn't make our body go into a, I [00:24:00] need to get outta here, because that's often what their body is trying to tell them.

And they then go, I'm supposed to be here with mom and do this shopping, but their brain and their body are going get me outta here. And so then they have this conflicting, which becomes a tantrum, which then we go, oh, let's go. 'cause this is too hard. So it's becomes a response that their brain and their body needs.

It's just often not in an effective way that they tell us. So I think the answer, the, the quick answer to that long response was, I think it's about understanding and noticing and seeing the patterns. Because often you, as a parent, you are the wealth of information about your children. It can just be about, have you noticed and do you see patterns that then inform you and give you the information that's actually there in your day-to-day life.

Dori Durbin: Yeah, I was just thinking how easy it would be for a parent to just [00:25:00] avoid anything that their child didn't like, but how limiting that life would be for the child as an adult and for a family. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Have you seen where if the child truly understands. What their brain is doing and how it's affecting them.

If they get a hold of that, even a small amount. Have you seen major change in the family's lives?

Stephanie Ford: Yeah, absolutely. Look, I have to say that a dozen my own house. So I have, um, a child who's on the spectrum and even yesterday we had an ordinary child. And until we could go, mate, this is the pattern that we see, you know, we got the whole, you just make that claim.

You just think it's this. When we could sit and go, yeah, but you know, all holidays it's been pretty easy and this isn't the way that you've been responding this event occurred. And not that's a bad thing, but this is the pattern that then we see, and this is the difference that has occurred since [00:26:00] that situation.

It would kind of tell us that this is what's making it difficult, and if you need help with that, then that's fine. You just need to let us know because it's not okay that you take that difficulty out on us. Um, it's got actually nothing to do with us. And within hours, that was different because it didn't have to be held.

They didn't have to hold it themself. They didn't feel like it was all on them. They knew that it was actually a shared thing and they were supported and safe. Because it was, and you know, that's come out of years of that response. This is what we've noticed. This is the batten of behavior. We see it's happening again.

And that again, that fact, but not an attack. Oh yeah. You're probably right. That is what happens. Yeah. To then go, what do you, what can you do about that? You're getting, you're getting pressured to do [00:27:00] that. What can you do? Could you ask. I actually need that to be more something. You don't just lump on me at the last minute.

I actually need you to do this for me. 'cause that would make it easier for me. And even then, that ability to be empowered and in control to mean that their world goes the way they need it to, can make such a differe.

Dori Durbin: I love everything that you just said because I can totally see it working like it's a real functional, everyday type of process.

Okay, so speaking of that, I should ask you before our listeners get impatient with me, where can they connect with you and find more about what you do specifically?

Stephanie Ford: Yeah, I'd love that. Love having conversations and helping people to understand all these interviews for them. So I do have my website, which is action forward.com au.

Um, there's a contact page there and there's information about what I do. Um, and then I, I am fairly active on social, so Stephanie forwarded action an action forward on Facebook and [00:28:00] on Instagram, um, and on LinkedIn. So love to connect in any way. Love to have conversation and hopefully there's some information on there as well that can be helpful to people.

Um, I often do some sharing on. The information and the details to mean it's simple and it's little chunks. And then we talk about, yeah, the practical side of things.

Dori Durbin: Okay. Stephanie, I'm gonna ask you the hard last question. Sure. So, out of all the advice that you could give a family, what is small action that parents can take today to support their child's daily functioning with less stress?

Stephanie Ford: More trust itself. Yeah. Look, I think it probably comes back to all of those things we've talked about, but I think the biggest part is about noticing. And even if that means that you start to jot things down to mean you don't have to hold that in your own head. You know, it could be a note on your phone to mean that you start to create this record for yourself to go.

Why was [00:29:00] that hard today? And you can then come back to that when you've got the time and capacity to reflect on that. Because again, it's not always easy to do that in the moment of managing one or multiple children in the middle of the shops, in the car park where there's cars going everywhere. Like probably not ideal, but having a way to, to jot something down to then later go back and go, ah, you know what?

This seems to be a bit of a theme. To give yourself the power to notice and then be able to do something about that. Because sometimes when we end up in conversations, parents will go, that's always what happens. You know, this is always a struggle. Um, and then when we can be able to pull that together in a conversation and reflect on that they themselves have the answer, it's just that I can be the facilitator of that.

So if you have the ability to take some information and note things down, if it's on a piece of paper, [00:30:00] it just allows you to start to pay attention in a different way and notice different things that probably you haven't noticed before, but it will start to show a pattern for you.

Dori Durbin: What about the pattern observation and patterns and having the children react?

Stephanie Ford: Yeah, because if we know what the pattern is, then we can be much more responsive to that. And understand the why, like as we said very early on, like, why is that action happening rather than us just responding to the action? I love? 'cause our act, our response to the action could be, you've got five, you're going, you've got 10 seconds.

I'm giving you a timer. That, again, is gonna create more pressure and create more of an adrenal response because I still don't want to do it, and now you're making me do it really fast. And so we're heightening the adrenal response, which is decreasing our executive functioning. But if we actually understand the why, then we can decrease that adrenal response and [00:31:00] it probably can happen in 30 seconds.

With a whole lot less intrinsic emotional stress and strain for everybody. Just put them on.

Dori Durbin: And that's what we're all looking for is, is a way to decrease the stress in that moment. Well, Stephanie Ford, I wanna first thank you so much for being such an advocate for families and helping them achieve everyday things that should be easy.

And. Just for taking the time today and sharing your insights and some of these steps that parents can do. Thank you for making such a difference.

Stephanie Ford: No, thank you for having me. I hope it does help and if yeah, if I can be of any help, any further, please reach out. Happy to always be in contact.

Dori Durbin: Absolutely.

And listeners, remember, this conversation is meant to remind you that you're not alone in parenting. Um, and to provide you with one simple step that can reduce your stress. So really at the end of the day, you can say at least once now that that was good parenting. [00:32:00] Absolutely.