Dori Durbin: [00:00:00] Welcome to, that's Good Parenting, the podcast that searches for simple steps to reduce your parenting stress. I'm your host, Dorie Durbin. I'm a children's book illustrator, coach, ghost writer, and podcaster.

And you know, I think listeners. I know that there's some of you out there who feel like there are just never enough hours in the day. No matter what you do, there's just never enough time. Maybe, maybe you happen to think, also, I'd like to write a children's book one day, or I wish I had more time to be creative with my kids and not feel stressed about it.

Well, then the day starts and all of a sudden the time is gone and nothing happened. If you're nodding your head yes right now, then this episode is probably for you. Today we're exploring how to reclaim lost time, rediscover joy, and just appreciate the everyday moments, um, especially as it relates to nurturing creativity.

Our guest today is is Michelle oic Deo? [00:01:00] Welcome to the show, Michelle. 

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to be here today. 

Dori Durbin: I'm so excited to have the audience, the listeners, find out what you do because it's so unique and special, and so in order to get that across a little bit better, I'm gonna have you tell them what you do and how you serve families.

Excellent. Thank you so much. 

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: Uh, so first of all, I am a creative arts therapist. I am a registered art therapist, and I've been in practice for over 30 years. We just had our 30th anniversary. I also practice horticultural therapy. And in the last few years, uh, I, I rediscovered my love. For everything time.

I have been a time nerd since I was little and I didn't realize it then. Um, but I used time in such a unique way throughout my life because I always saw the value of it. And as I grew in my practice and in my family life, um, you know, people would always say to me, oh, you know, get Michelle to do it. She always has time [00:02:00] and, and I can't say that I've always had time, but I can say that in the last few years as I've been.

Working on my new time, my time strategy system, I really have been able to identify out the threads and the pieces of how I've used time and been able to apply it to my parenting and to my practice. And so now I do, uh, I not only do counseling, but I also do time recovery coaching, helping parents and teenagers, um, you know, find the time they need to be able to get everything done in a way that's not gonna, you know, not gonna cause extra stress.

And then actually, you know, just have. Add in a few sparks of joy in there. 

Dori Durbin: That is amazing and I, I love that you are focused on families, but the fact that you said teenagers, I was like, ding, ding, ding, ding. Because that is such a struggle for so many parents and for the teenagers themselves as well.

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: Yeah. Oh, it is. You know what I've, what I've truly found is probably in the last six years with the increasing the amount of, of devices that are [00:03:00] available and screen time that, that, you know, that adolescents are having to spend for school and also they, and also for their social relationships, right? And I say have to, because for them they really truly feel, it's a, it's a must in their lives to have a certain amount of time on different social media platforms in order for them to maintain their friendship.

But then the question is how do we actually be able to support them as parents to be able to get off their devices and relate and you know, and have, have real relationships in person and watch those grow so that you know, one day when they're like out there in the real world that we all are actually encountering each other and knowing how to talk to one another and how to solve problems in real time.

So. 

Dori Durbin: So you mean like two teenagers together shouldn't automatically assume they're having a friendship when they're both on their phones? 

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: It's a different kind of friendship. So I, I, so, I mean, and in serious, so, so there is the, there is a type of relationship that that is equal out to, but if you haven't met somebody in [00:04:00] person, um, it's very difficult to have that other layer of friendship, the layer of, of trust that you can build between two people when, when you meet someone and you actually can.

Share a, a, a coffee together, share a cup of tea together, you know, as we used to go up, walk up to the corner store when we were, when we were young. Right. And you have conversations and it's those conversations that build the depth. Those are difficult to have sometimes on, on some of the social media platforms that are out there.

'cause they're just like, send, send, send. 

Dori Durbin: Yes. So true. And I, I feel like even in groups now, you'll see groups of kids hanging out together. And three quarters of the time they're talking, but they're also on their phones at the same time. So it's like it's not real investment into the conversation of what's actually happening right there in the moment.

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: It's different, but there are some amazing apps, and this is one of the things too, about them being able to use their time, um, you know, um, you know, creatively, you know, like an app where you can [00:05:00] actually build, uh, build songs on, on, you know, and I, I, my son was sitting down with us, uh, he's, he's a little older.

He is just turned 22. But a couple years ago when, you know, some of these new apps and these song building apps came out, we all sat down and we were actually sitting there. Building these fun, crazy, you know, AI songs together and using our time and technology. So there's a way to do it and blend it over.

That's 

Dori Durbin: really cool. Yes, I love that. So, okay, let me, let me shift this just slightly. And so as a, children's book illustrator and coach, I'm, in the creative field and I know you are in the creative field and I feel like. Even any person who's not in the creative field when it comes to being creative, that gets put on the back burner because so many times we're called into family things or we're called to work, whatever it is, we just don't give ourselves time for that.

Now you've developed something really cool the 42 minute hour strategy. Is amazing. Can you tell him a little bit about what it is [00:06:00] and why you started it? 

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: Alright, well, I'll start with the why and then move over into the, into the how.

So this relates back to my son. Uh, so, uh, when he left for university, uh, I'm just, I'm fast forwarding through all my other, my personal time journey. So let's get to here. Uh, it's, it's, he's just left. I dropped him off at the airport and I said, I said like, see ya. I'm so excited because now I'm gonna have more time I'm thinking.

But then all of a sudden I got home and I'm like, oh, I had this deep kind of feeling inside. And I, and I started to feel kind of, that I felt the sadness of, of losing him, not losing him, but he's like off on his next journey. And I fell into a really deep television binge for the next. Probably about 30 days.

And I would go to work and then I would come home and watch a show and I'd come home at lunchtime and I'd watch a show and then I'd like get up early and I'd watch a show. And before I knew it, I had spent basically 28 days [00:07:00] watching 92 episodes over 3000, 400 minutes of, of programming. And when I got to the end of it, I basically woke up feeling like I'd woken up from like a time-wasting bender.

And I was like, oh. This can't, this can't be, he left and now I'm supposed to have all this time and now what I'm gonna do 'cause I can't live like that. Like I don't wanna live in that place. So I started analyzing and breaking down, like what was it about this show and the rolling over of the streaming and the platform MacLean like roll over.

That was really taking me in and I realized that each show that we watched, uh, was about 42 minutes long. And so I thought, well, think about, I thought, well, what if, what would I do if I just took those 42 minutes and did something with them? And then I started diving deeper into it and I was like, well, if you're watching television and you're not on a streaming platform, it's about an hour long program.

42 minutes of program, 18 minutes of commercials. And I thought, well, what if I took the 42 minutes and I did [00:08:00] some sort of primary goal, something that I really wanted to get done, that I could just set a timer, do my 42 minutes, and then take the 18 minutes and do something that needed to get done. Clean up around the house, check my emails, you know, you know, take the dog for a walk.

Anything like that, that, that I'd been putting off, you know? And, and so I started developing this idea and I started practicing them and I started, I did my first 42 minute hour, and I was like, oh my gosh, this really worked. I finished my goal. And I, I did all the dishes. I'm like, Hmm. So I reached out to a few friends and I said, Hey, you wanna try this out?

And uh, I had a few friends who were authors and uh, I had one who was like, okay, I'll give it a shot. Well, before you know it, I get this message back. She's like, oh my gosh. I just finished four chapters of my book. I spent, I did like four different 42 minute hours. And my house is clean. Wow. And she's like, she's like, everybody's happy.

And so, so it was, it was really that first dive into creating a time [00:09:00] tool that was going to work for someone who had a really specific goal. What ended up happening next was that, what I realized is that not everybody had their goals in place, and so a time tool wasn't necessarily going to solve that, that.

That issue. And so I started looking more deeply into my own expertise around what happens and, you know, what kind of time disruptors are, are really getting into people's in, in people's way, you know, and then started looking at time recovery and really putting, created a time recovery assessment for people to start really taking a look at.

And that's really how the whole system was born. So I created an, I have an entire set of time tools, not just the 1 42 minute hour, I have a whole set, you know, depending on what. It's gonna be right for you. And then, uh, a full recovery time recovery system where we dive much deeper into the process. And everything's based on six core time core factors that I've created.

And so I just kind of have jumped from there and, and started helping. Families and businesses. You know, I [00:10:00] go into small businesses to do, uh, to do, uh, different kind of corporate works to, you know, be able to recover time on, uh, on site and then, uh, and then start working with, uh, with families and parents and how do we, you know, recover more time so that you can, you know, build a better life, have more, better interactions with your children, and be more intentional.

So. 

Dori Durbin: Wow, this is amazing. I love how you did the research, how you tried it out on other people, really dug through what was happening to you, but then applied it and then now have created these tools around what you've observed as a professional and as just somebody who's a researcher really to.

Come up with these, um, solutions for people. So one thing that you said really struck my mind because I think, you know, parents, like you said, they're busy, they don't feel like they have time, but there's a time disruptor. So what are some of the time disruptors that seem to be the most common for people?

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: Well, it's so interesting because I asked that question, uh, just, [00:11:00] just recently, uh, on, on a post that I, that I had on my, on my, one of my sites. And one thing that somebody came up with is they said that they, there was a break in the heat and they had to, and they went outside to go do the lawn. And so it was funny 'cause they considered that to be a time disruptor.

And, uh, and I thought, hmm. I, in my my eyes, I see that more as intentional use of time. So, um, you know, so there's, there's different ways to look at it, but some of the most, uh, significant time disruptors sometimes can be kids knocking on your door. Right. You know, not being, not setting the limits with the kids that you know, that when my door is closed, this I'm working here.

Right. And in doing that, so one of the things that I often would do is like for myself, I would actually set, like, I'm working for this many minutes. Unless you have limbs falling off, you need to let me work because my time is as important as your time. And that's one of the things that I really work with with families on is helping [00:12:00] parents teach their kids that their time as human beings, like I'm not just a mom, I'm not just a dad, but I'm a human being and I deserve a little bit of time.

But what we have to do is, um, is verbalize that to our kids. Help them understand, teach them to be able to be respectful of our time so that they can be respectful of their time and other people's time. And that allows us to be able to develop some of those really great, uh, strategies for helping kids to be on time places where they're not disrespecting other people's time and that they're not feeling stressed because they're late.

So it's, it's all, it's, it's all trickle down. Yes. I think, did I answer your question? I'm not sure. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Yeah. So one of the, the time disruptors is kids. Are there any other common ones that people really struggle with? Oh, 

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: the, the most, the most common time disruptor we run into right now is, um, is, is screen time, is is the rolling of, um.

Certain social media platforms where people go on email [00:13:00] checking, that's one. Uh, where people do a constant email check, you're checking for messages, um, you know, you're watching at nighttime, you're watching shows, you know, that roll over one into the next, uh, you know, something that we didn't have to deal with.

You know, many years ago we had other time disruptors in our, in our life growing up. But now there are so many other technical time disruptors that get in our way, notifications. If the one thing you wanna do in order to to, you know, to deal with some, with one specific time disruptor that you can deal with is turn off your notifications.

Because that's the one thing that you hear that ding and all of a sudden it disrupts your thought, your creative process or anything else. In, in relationship, you're having conversations. People can be in the middle of a conversation being time disruptor, or you're working on an essay or something like that.

So whether you are a, a, a mom trying to, you know, spend time reading with your child or you're a student trying to, you know, trying to study. That would be my first thing is to say, turn off your notifications. Turn your [00:14:00] phone over. Leave your phone in the other room. That's another thing too. Leave your phone in a, in a, in a separate room, which also helps to reduce some of that time Disruptor.

Dori Durbin: This is kind of funny because when I work with people, I have to turn on the focus, . And even though that you know that you're working and you might be in the stream of conscious, you know, for me it's art.

You're just, you know, I'm immersed in what I'm doing. I still hear it. And there's still like a moment where it, it just shifts my thought, just enough to throw things off. I think in my mind I'm like, oh, I, I ignore that, but I don't know that you can ignore a dean. 

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: I mean, I, I think that each one of us needs to really take that time to be able to identify what are our top time disruptors, and then when, when, and if you're ready, then we start breaking down how do we actually, um, work through. And I would, I mean, I, I'm not one to like say, let's do them all at the same time.

Let's pick one time disruptor. I mean, my biggest time disruptor for me was, was television [00:15:00] and access to television. Now there's a whole historical reason why I was so attached to television. Um, having to do with, with my mom when she was, when I was little, she was ill. Um, and she had a, and so the only time that I actually was, was be able to spend with her was if she was kind of sleeping in the chair when she was recovering from brain surgery.

Um, and I would sit at the, at the base of her chair watching television. And so at that young age, I, I created this connection between. Between connection between my mom and television and, and basically it was, it was a trauma connection, you know, that, that occurred. And so whenever, as I grew older, I didn't even realize it.

Anytime I felt stressed or traumatized or something happened, I just turned on the tv, turned it on, and it, and it soothed. But really it ended up, you know, stealing so much time from me. And so each one of us. You know, needs to take that time to be able to figure out, well, what is our biggest time disruptor and what are the steps we can do to take it?

[00:16:00] And that's where I help people is that a lot of times people get stuck and not know, like, how do I manage this disruption and how do I shift my patterns and cre recreate my own time journey? So I'm taking back my time. 

Dori Durbin: That's really interesting, like the whole trauma piece of it and the emotional attachment piece to time.

Because I think that there, and I, I think I was guilty of this too. I pack my day with activities. I don't have to think about anything outside. Right? Yeah. And really that's probably, you know, like in your mind it's like, okay, if I keep busy, I can just keep going, keep going, and the problem will get farther away.

But that's not really what happens, right? Tell 'em what really happens. 

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: Well, I mean, yeah, what, what really happens is that you know that if we're not dealing with the traumas in our life, you know, from, uh, that, that they, they get buried. And, um, and so, you know. Sometimes, sometimes we need to create a protective, like we, we may not be able to deal with [00:17:00] our trauma, you know, and not everybody can deal with it, but we do need to be able to create a protective coding and identify it.

So even if we choose, you know, that we're not able to deal with that specific thing, that we can then take the time to be able to create a way to be able to. Acknowledge it and know I'm not ready to deal with that. Or yes, I am ready to take some time to be able to address it in whatever way seems, seems right for you.

Some people, it's counseling, some people it's, I wanna get fit, I'm gonna spend time in my fitness in order to be able to feel better about my body and mind. Some people it's creative process, writing a book. Um, you know, and you know, I mean, that's one of the things that I did when, when I was dealing with, you know.

More family trauma and, and stuff. My, my parents both got very, my, my parents both got very ill in 2018 and, um, and before that, uh, you know, that there had been, you know, diagnoses and we dealing with all these chaos as parents and I set aside time to write my first book. And so, and [00:18:00] that was such an impm imperative time in my life.

So I, but, but in order to do that, you know. I had to be getting up at five 14 every morning to work and write in my book so that I was still able to be the mom I needed to be. Um, and, and my son knew that, you know, and so he knew that that time, not that he's getting up at five 14 in the morning, but if he, if he saw me writing in between, he knew that that was my time and that how important it was to respect the time in order for me to keep balanced.

Because I said to him, if I'm not writing. I'm not the best mom I can be. So give me half an hour to write so that I can be a better mom to you in all the other half an hours of the day. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah, that's, so that goes back to that training that you did in that respect of time and it, it's interesting too, as I'm listening, I'm thinking, okay, so knowing your traumas is really important.

Um, setting up the boundaries is really important. Is there another thing that you feel is really crucial for people to be [00:19:00] able to take back their time and really. They use it in the way that they want to. 

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: I think one of the easiest, you know, you talk about tips for, for parents, one of the easiest things you can do to take back your time is to be more intentional.

So everything from, um, I, I go back to a moment when my son was two and a half years old and we're walking along the sidewalk and he looks up in the sky and he says to me, look, mummy, those clouds are so beautiful. I see like a, you know, like, they're so lovely and he laid down in the middle of this.

Sidewalk and in that moment I thought. He needs this time, he needs me to be present. So we took the time. I laid down in the middle of the sidewalk too, and we lay there for probably about three or four minutes until I said, you know, he's, and I think it's time for us to get up, but intentionally choosing not to respond, saying get up off the sidewalk.

We can't lie there intentionally choosing to take a few minutes. [00:20:00] Honor them where they are in their presence. As parents, the moment we can honor them in their, in their space and place, we win, we create a bond that allows you to be able to go through. Middle school, high school, and into university and, you know, and beyond to have a relationship that is so filled with strength.

And I truly believe that intentional time doesn't cost you dime parents. It's, it is, it is just taking a moment and time to be, to let them know you're present with them and, um, and that you're listening to them. And if that's like probably my, my biggest tip, 

Dori Durbin: I would say what a, what a powerful memory you created for him.

And for you as well. I mean, because we were talking before the podcast how, how at certain stages of parenting, it doesn't always feel like time is going fast, but really it is going very quickly. And as soon as they get a little bit older, you look back and you think, wow, that, that went so incredibly fast.

[00:21:00] So having those moments. Like that, that intentional time, like you said is so powerful. I love that you brought that up. You have a picture in the back. I wanna make sure we talk about this. Tell them what that picture is and describe it the best you can for those people who are on the podcast.

Listening. 

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: Alright, so for those of you who are, who are listening, I want you to imagine a two foot by three foot canvas and on it. Are sprays of, of acrylic paint in colors of all of all shades, uh, you know, from, from fuchsia to bright blue to gold. And, uh, and, and just imagine arms waving with paintbrushes, the big size paintbrushes.

So that's what I want you to put into your head. Now imagine that this canvas was actually created by a mom. A dad and a three and a half year old, and the intention was to take time to, um, to express the feelings after coming back from, uh, from this child's first trip. So this was actually our first trip.

We had gone to [00:22:00] Hawaii for the first time in my life, and we came back and we were actually between houses. We really, we didn't have any place to live at the time, so we were staying at my, at my in-law's house. And I pulled a canvas out. I'm an art therapist, as I mentioned at the beginning. So I had some supplies and uh, and I pulled it out.

We were in the laundry room and the three of us were there, and I just said. Just paint you guys, just whatever you want on the canvas. And so the three of us as a family unit took the time to create this image. And we are now 20 years later. It's exactly 20 years later, uh, 19 and a half. Um, and you know, I look at the, I look at the canvas behind me and um, and it reminds me of.

Of the how important it is to take that intentional time to be creative, to allow yourself and your child and your children and your, and your spouse, if you have one, um, to be able to [00:23:00] create something together. 'cause when you are actually involved in, in creation as a family unit. Amazing things happen, connections, sparks, possibilities.

Just the other, just the other month, um, my, uh, my son and I were talking about writing a book together and he is like, oh, mom. And so we start talking about that, but that starts from when they're little of creating opportunities of being able to, for them to see you, like I said, as a person, not just as your mom.

Um, and so that, so that you can, uh, that you can then create that relationship. And, and be able to use it as they go through and they're, and they're, as they get older. 

Dori Durbin: This since you can't see, some of you cannot see this listeners. It is a beautiful, fun, energetic painting that you've kept. Like it wasn't something that you just tossed aside after your child forgot about it.

The whole family contributed. So it's a piece that is going to last. Who knows? Maybe for generations, right? So I love it. I absolutely love it. [00:24:00] Thank you. So Michelle, you have so many valuable resources and one of them is called the Free Time Strategy Handbook. Yes. And I, I'm asking you, because this is your creation.

If I were to download this and I'm a parent, I'm ready to get going, seize some time back, I download it, instead of forgetting about it and not using it, what is the first step that they should take so that they actually put this to use? 

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: One of the first steps is to, is to figure out one goal, one thing that has been sitting on your shelf that you wanna do, that 42 minutes would give you the opportunity to even just get started.

It's not about finishing everything and rushing through 42 minutes, but it's, it's about making a decision. I want to pick up this, and I wanna work on this piece. Whether it's a a, a personal project, a business project, or a family project. Make the decision. Pick a time, pick your time block, and then [00:25:00] set your primary goal and then look around.

And that drawer that's in the kitchen that needs to be cleaned, you set that as your 18 minutes and you get started. Because what we can do is if you needed two time blocks, 2 42 minute hour time blocks, you then be able to have potentially a good start on your project. And a clean drawer. 

Dori Durbin: Everybody wants a clean drawer, 

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: right?

Everybody wants a clean junk drawer because otherwise we can't find anything, right? So. 

Dori Durbin: So true, so this has been amazing, Michelle. I, I just love how you've shown us how time management is actually not something to be afraid of, but something that is going to encourage us to get things done and, and actually just reduce a lot of the stress.

Um, can you tell our listeners where they can go to learn more about what you do and especially that free time strategy handbook. Sure. 

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: Um, one of the, the things you can do is, uh, we will, we'll have it in the, in the, in the notes, right? That you can access it there. Um, you [00:26:00] can access, uh, I'll, I'll put a, I'll put a new link up onto my, uh, onto my LinkedIn page.

You can just look me up there on LinkedIn. I'm also on Facebook. I have a Facebook business page under my name, and I also have a, a group if you wanna get started. Diving in a little bit more called the 42 Minute Hour Time with intention, uh, the 42 Minute Club. It's actually what it's called, the 42 Minute Club Time with Intention.

I'd love to have you join and please feel free whenever you feel like you just need to reach out, you can DM me in LinkedIn or in in Facebook, and I'm available for you to have a conversation and if you need to dive deeper into, into anything I'm doing coaching and consulting and, uh, you know, if you.

Find yourself, you know, that your teenager is, is just mismanaging their time, uh, in an epic way. Um, I have been doing a lot of that work lately too. So happy to help you and your teen find their time and, uh, and just to make more [00:27:00] of, uh, of the relationship that you have with them and to be building something, uh, beautiful.

'cause I really, truly believe time is, uh, time is something that we cannot waste. 

Dori Durbin: Oh, so good,. And I think everyone will be sending their teenagers your way. I know Michelle, you've got 31 years of helping people of the experience, your own parenting. Is there any other advice that you would give parents?

Who feel like they're just drowning in busyness itself.

Michelle Oucharek-Deo: Oh, oh yes, there is. So one of my, one of my, one of my key time core growth factors is around time and nature. And I truly believe that if we can. Literally get, take your socks and shoes off and go and stand in the dirt.

And I know it sounds silly, but if you can get in the dirt or in the grass, take, just take a few minutes to, to literally ground yourself back to the back, to the earth that we all live on. Um, and, [00:28:00] and respect what it is. It can give you a minute to breathe before you, before you make a decision, before you react to a situation to.

Recenter yourself in, in a way that gives you an opportunity to start making the plans and to setting the goals and then picking which time tools you need. So I'm all about getting back in into nature and if, and if you can't get out to nature, bring nature to you, bring some sort of, of something living and growing onto your desk.

Um, if you're not good at taking care of plants, you can get an air plant. You only need to put it into water every two weeks. For 10 minutes. There are so many ways to connect with nature and take that time, which you can breathe in, and then be able to reassess like how you're going to basically move forward with the next five minutes.

Dori Durbin: I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for your time today. I'm so excited for people to follow you, find you, and start getting their [00:29:00] time back. Thank you so much, Dori.