{00:00:00] Angie Grandt: one thing that seems to be very consistent across many families who have gone through adoption is that the child themselves because of their disrupted attachment at whatever point it happened in life, they have experienced a huge loss.

[00:00:13] Angie Grandt: They grew to love the only, caretaker that they knew and that was disrupted. And so then they're placed in this new home and the new home can very well be very loving and caring and doting and all of the great things but that child has experienced a loss. 

[00:00:29] Dori Durbin: When considering adoption, most parents have concerns before the adoption, but when they bring home a beautiful baby into their loving home, it all seems to dissipate. until it gets real. When their family seemingly changes overnight, some adoptive parents may feel fear, frustration, and even a sense of just being a bad parent at times. What many parents could really use is support after the adoption. Not just for their family, but for themselves as well.[00:01:00] 

[00:01:00] Dori Durbin: To this episode to find out more about adoption, especially after the adoption. You can find out how adopted infants have already endured trauma in their lives. Why adopted kids feelings feel so complex? And what unique support biological kids may need through the adoption transition. And what kind of resources there are for parents as well. Listen to this episode next. 

[00:01:24] Dori Durbin: Today's guest is an adoptive and biological mom, former foster mom, adoption coach, speech therapist, and has worked with autism for nearly two decades. She coaches adoptive parents through worry, frustration, and resentment to create hope and joy through lasting connections.

[00:01:43] Dori Durbin: Welcome to the show, Angie Grant. 

[00:01:45] Angie Grandt: Hi, I'm so glad to be 

[00:01:47] Dori Durbin: here.

[00:01:48] Dori Durbin: So Angie, when parents adopt a child, I'm sure there's this huge sense of excitement, but also probably an equally strong fear of the unknown.

[00:01:59] Dori Durbin: What are some [00:02:00] considerations that adoptive parents may not realize or think of at the time when they're in those excited stages of the adoption process. 

[00:02:07] Angie Grandt: Oh man, that's a tricky question because adoption is such a beautiful, it's a beautiful way to not only help a child in need, but also to grow your family and, to have this beautiful opportunity to love on another little human.

[00:02:24] Angie Grandt: buT one thing that I, I find that it's really important for parents to know is that Whenever a child goes through an out of home placement, so whether they're in foster care or they've gone through the adoption process, they've experienced a disrupted attachment and oftentimes they've experienced trauma and what I'll hear a lot of times is that.

[00:02:47] Angie Grandt: Parents will say, Oh, but I adopted my child right from the hospital, or I adopted my child in the first two months of life. So they haven't experienced trauma. And I just, I, I feel so strongly and so many other experts that I follow [00:03:00] feel so strongly that disruption in their home, their even if they were adopted right at the hospital.

[00:03:07] Angie Grandt: Their first nine months, hopefully, of life were spent with their biological mom in her womb, and that's what they know, and so when that changes, that chemistry, that baby won't have that same connection anymore, and it can really, it can cause trauma, and so that's the part that I hope all adoptive parents go into that is just knowing, it doesn't mean that it it's going to end up being awful, it doesn't mean that it's, that by no means do I mean don't do it, but be prepared and understand where your kiddo has already been even.

[00:03:42] Angie Grandt: Even if their life is just so brand new, 

[00:03:45] Dori Durbin: that's really great advice because I wouldn't think about that if I were adopting. I would think the same thing. I got him from the hospital. We're all set. Things are great. And not what maybe they subconsciously experienced or in the womb 

[00:03:58] Angie Grandt: experienced.

[00:03:59] Angie Grandt: You think about it [00:04:00] like that time in the womb, whether or not it's stressful or healthy, still those sounds are the only sounds that, that infant heard for those first, during that developmental time. So the sounds, the neurochemistry of the mom, there are just so many things that happen in the womb, even that's the baby's only life experience.

[00:04:19] Angie Grandt: And so when that's disrupted it, we just, we have to be aware of that and not be dismissive of it. 

[00:04:25] Dori Durbin: Yeah. And when the kids are older, I'm sure there's more of a complicated. Scenario that happens. 

[00:04:32] Angie Grandt: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. And any experience that they have during those, however many years of life, I think about my son, he was five when we adopted him.

[00:04:42] Angie Grandt: He had never been in a foster placement. He had stayed with his biological mom. But that time, that five years had so many experiences, not only in the womb, but then those first five years, so many experiences that shaped. The the difficulties that he brought into our family [00:05:00] because of what he had experienced at that point.

[00:05:03] Angie Grandt: And I would often hear, after he had been in our family for a couple of years, I would often hear other well, meaning people say when will he get over it? When will he be better? And, that concept of. But this is this his first five years of life that's the most important time of brain development.

[00:05:22] Angie Grandt: And that is when his brain formed, during in the womb during those first five years. And so he's not just going to get over it. It takes a lot of healing and work, honestly.

[00:05:33] Dori Durbin: Yeah. So let's say you're talking to somebody who hasn't experienced adoption before what are some of the emotional and logical or logistical, sorry, not logical, logistical issues that parents run into when they're bringing this child in who has these feelings and maybe doesn't understand them That's the first question.

[00:05:53] Dori Durbin: But then what if you also have kids of your own in that situation as well? 

[00:05:58] Angie Grandt: That's a loaded question. [00:06:00] 

[00:06:00] Dori Durbin: I knew as soon as I said it was. 

[00:06:03] Angie Grandt: I, I know in my own personal experience and so many other families that I've connected with, probably the primary, Man, there's so many of them. But one thing that seems to be very consistent across many families who have gone through adoption is that the child themselves because of their disrupted attachment at whatever point it happened in life, whether it was, right at, at birth or, months later or years later, they have experienced a huge loss.

[00:06:31] Angie Grandt: They grew to love the only, caretaker that they knew and that was disrupted. And so then they're placed in this new home and the new home can very well be very loving and caring and doting and all of the great things, but that child has experienced a loss. And you think about it, like as an adult, maybe you had your first true love and that relationship ends.

[00:06:54] Angie Grandt: You're not going to easily just jump into a new relationship and be like, all right, I love you so much to,[00:07:00] as humans, we don't operate like that. And so when we think about our kids, what we end up seeing then is that they're in this new relationship, this new family, these new parents who love them so much.

[00:07:13] Angie Grandt: But the child has a wall up oftentimes and they don't know it and it doesn't often look like that. What it ends up looking are these behaviors that are designed to test whether or not the parents, the new parents really love them and to quite honestly keep keep people at a distance because that feels safer.

[00:07:34] Angie Grandt: And so what it looks like are sometimes really bizarre behaviors, extreme behaviors. For some kids, it can actually be quite the opposite. I met a mom the other day and she was talking about her son did not display the kind of like typical fight, flight or freeze behaviors, but instead her son displayed what is called fawning, which is now more widely discussed as being the fourth trauma response.

[00:07:59] Angie Grandt: And what [00:08:00] fawning looks is actually fawning. Somebody who goes above and beyond to please others in a trauma response, though, right? And oftentimes what it will look like, not always, but oftentimes what it will look like is that the child will even appease their abuser. If I'm super, super nice to you, maybe the abuse won't hurt so much.

[00:08:20] Angie Grandt: But in an adoption situation or a new placement situation, sometimes that child will still display the fawning behavior, but towards the new caretaker, which can be so confusing, right? My child's not showing signs of trauma. They're like, so sweet. They're overly kind. They're overly affectionate and attentive and they give compliments and all of these great skills that we like to see in kids.

[00:08:42] Angie Grandt: But then we learn over time that they're not really building attachments. I don't know if I really answered your question, but that emotional piece of trying to connect with our kids can be so extremely hard because we as parents are a little bit excited, worried, fearful. [00:09:00] But then our kids are they don't, it's not a conscious thing, but our kids are hesitant to love.

[00:09:06] Angie Grandt: Honestly, 

[00:09:07] Dori Durbin: it's got to be get even more complicated when you have those other kids in the family that are already there, because then it's like more people to bond with, but you're not so sure you want to. So there's that much more intensity to it. It 

[00:09:20] Angie Grandt: would seem like. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:22] Angie Grandt: And I think to like quite a few of the families that I know had biological children first and then got into fostering and adopting. And it can be so confusing for our biological kids who saw his parent one way, right? They only know us as mom and the way that we mommed or dadded. THey only know the way that they saw as parent and then there's this other child in the mix who's displaying all of these really challenging or problematic behaviors and our bio kids.

[00:09:49] Angie Grandt: See us responding to that with more compassion, more love, more trying to help where, so many of our bio kids, it's just such a common [00:10:00] thing, but our bio kids will be like, I never would have got away with acting like that. I would have gotten a time out for that, or I would have gotten this for that.

[00:10:06] Angie Grandt: And that, that can be really. That can be really hard for other relationships too, I know in my own home it, it made my relationship with my bio daughter stressful for a long time as I was trying so hard to help my son who was displaying such challenging behaviors. It was hard. It was really hard.

[00:10:25] Dori Durbin: You said, I think I read in your bio that You eventually got a coach, a mentor of some kind to help you in that situation. What were some insights that they gave you that didn't come to you just naturally as a parent? 

[00:10:41] Angie Grandt: Oh, yeah. I actually hired a coach. So things got so rough with my son so rough to the point that he ended up my husband and I got a divorce shortly after we adopted and and after that, man, things got hard.

[00:10:55] Angie Grandt: So my son was primarily with me for several years, but then [00:11:00] behaviors got really hard and he ended up moving in with his dad or my ex husband. And so it was during that time that my son was not living here that I ended up seeking out a coach for other reasons, for business related reasons, actually, and working with a coach within the first month, my mind was just blown at, holy cow, this is why things got so hard with my son, because I quickly realized that I was trying so hard, man, like I was doing everything, if.

[00:11:31] Angie Grandt: If you gave me a suggestion about something I should have tried with my son, I feel confident. I did it, everything from all of the therapies all of the involvement with the school to the extreme of writing a letter to the governor begging for help, right? Everything. I did everything. And behaviors kept getting worse and worse.

[00:11:48] Angie Grandt: And I, early on when my son was young, beavers were hard pretty much as soon as he moved into our house. But for the first several years, I was really able to keep my head in the game and, follow [00:12:00] through with the recommendations from the therapist about just keep letting them know how much you love them.

[00:12:03] Angie Grandt: Just keep letting them know how much you love them. But what happened over time, because I didn't know about the power of my mind, I didn't know about How I was in control of my feelings, it sounds really silly to say that, but over time I started to believe that of course I'm frustrated. My son is so hard.

[00:12:21] Angie Grandt: Of course, this is too hard for me because behaviors are so hard. I didn't know that I could shift the way that I was thinking and feeling about that so I could keep showing up the way that I was early on what instead happened was over time. I held strong for so long, but as I kept trying to do all of the things, I was really losing sight of what my goal was with him, which was really just to love him and to, show him a loving home.

[00:12:51] Angie Grandt: That was my goal, but I didn't I didn't have the tools at that time to keep my head in that game and so instead I really got so focused on [00:13:00] trying to fix him. Honestly, it hurts me to say that now, but that's where I was then I was trying so hard to fix him, get him in all the therapies, do all of the things that I could for him.

[00:13:11] Angie Grandt: All the while I had no idea what to do to help keep my own head in the game. So anyway, so yeah, I hired a mindset coach to work on some business related things and quickly realized that was the missing piece for me. And that I knew pretty instantly that, Holy cow, I need to help other moms because man, these kids need parents who can keep their head in the game.

[00:13:33] Angie Grandt: These kids, more than any kids in the world, right? Kids who have had a disrupted attachment need parents. Who can really continue to show up and love them at the level that they need. 

[00:13:46] Dori Durbin: Oh, thank you. First of all, for sharing that. Cause I'm sure that wasn't a time in your life that, that felt comfortable I don't know, sometimes you think, okay, my, my experiences make me negate my ability to help others.

[00:13:58] Dori Durbin: But I think in your case, [00:14:00] especially it helped you. Be able to really have that sense of compassion and drive to help other people who are in the same type of situation. So that's amazing. Thank you for 

[00:14:10] Angie Grandt: sharing that. Yeah. It's funny talking here with you because while I was in the thick of it and.

[00:14:16] Angie Grandt: Man, it was just wild in my house. I just, I can't even describe it. It wouldn't be fair to my son, honestly, if I did. I kept, you know what I would talk to, like my coworkers or some of my friends or family. I repeatedly would say man, someday I need to write a book about this. That's what I kept saying.

[00:14:34] Angie Grandt: Now, since meeting you and first chatting with you, I was like, I don't think I want to write a book for adults. I think I want to write a book for kids to give them the words, because I know that attachment piece is so hard. I know that the kids that we're loving through adoption, through foster, I know that there's this mistrust that they don't even understand.

[00:14:59] Angie Grandt: [00:15:00] And so I would love to write a kid's book that gives them words to it, and also gives them words that they can say to their parents, because I know how powerful words are, I'm a speech therapist and man, like When we can help give kids words, even if it's through sign or through pictures or however, that pride that we see in kids when they have something to say and people understand them is so incredibly powerful.

[00:15:25] Angie Grandt: And since I first met with you, I've been thinking like, Oh. That it'll happen someday. I don't know when but that's what I want to do is write a book that gives kids words that they can say to their parents when they're not feeling so great or when they're, when their body is testing the limits, I want them to have a place to reference that they can say, I'm really feeling hurt inside, or I'm feeling a little bit scared right now, or can you please remind me how much you love me?

[00:15:49] Angie Grandt: Things like that I think would be so powerful. 

[00:15:53] Dori Durbin: That's just beautiful. That just warms my heart so much in so many levels because I, first of all, the kids book, obviously, but [00:16:00] secondly, because I think that so many times, even as adults, we don't have words to even express what's going on inside.

[00:16:06] Dori Durbin: We have the feelings and we have the the emotions that are churning, but we can't, we just can't put words to it. And I think when. Kids are in situations where they're maybe even have to justify what they're doing. wHy are you doing that? Why are you acting like that? Those kinds of things.

[00:16:25] Dori Durbin: And they're not even sure it's so hard for them. And it's hard for the parents too. 

[00:16:31] Angie Grandt: Yeah. 

[00:16:32] Dori Durbin: Yeah. I think you should do it. Totally do. 

[00:16:36] Angie Grandt: I already wrote notes down for myself. Ooh, that was good. I'm running with it. 

[00:16:42] Dori Durbin: I think there is a definite need there. 

[00:16:43] Dori Durbin: And I really do think giving kids words, or at least giving them a picture or a phrase that's going to relate to them somehow that they can just pull out and use and feel confident about how that feels. That's huge.

[00:16:59] Dori Durbin: Yeah. [00:17:00] 

[00:17:00] Dori Durbin: Yeah, so let me back you up to something here. When you were talking being caught between your biological child and your adopted child. The first thing that came to my mind was my two kids who are related and the same conversation of the oldest to the youngest and saying how is that fair? So how do you as a parent handle some of that? Because it is gonna take a different approach for your adoptive child than your biological.

[00:17:28] Dori Durbin: How do you as a, I'm gonna say a mom, how do you as a mom Handle some of those guilty feelings that moms have already. In a situation like that 

[00:17:37] Angie Grandt: I think, I think it helps that I was just so convicted in the decision that we made to foster and adopt. And then I also think it helped tremendously that at the time of at the time of adoption, I believe my.

[00:17:52] Angie Grandt: Bio daughter was about 10. And yes, she's, she was still a kid but at a cognitive level where she could [00:18:00] understand a bit more, she had the experience of going us talking about becoming foster parents and going through that licensing process. She had to be interviewed and, so that was, there was a lot of prep up to that point.

[00:18:12] Angie Grandt: And so through that process, I was able to just be really frank with her and talk with her about some of the kids that come into our home might be, they might have challenging behaviors and they might, we might see X, Y, and Z. And and I was just very honest with her to say my job is to keep you safe, first and foremost, but also to provide a safe home for whoever comes to our home.

[00:18:33] Angie Grandt: And just don't forget how much I love you and that I'm your mom, but I also think I want to, help others too. And, so who knows how much of that she understood, but, there were times when she would get frustrated. And so I would just bring her back to those conversations and just remind her I love you like crazy.

[00:18:52] Angie Grandt: And, I made this promise to love these other kids and to do the best that I could to help with them. And it wasn't [00:19:00] easy. For sure. And just cognitively at the age that she was at, I think sometimes just jealousy was a big deal for her. But I really just had to hold true to what I had promised to myself and to, to the kids that we were helping to, which I think was the best I could do at the time.

[00:19:18] Dori Durbin: Yeah and that's good for them to see that you've made a commitment. You've made it to another person, you're going to follow through with that, even when it's tough. And that's one of those relationship things that you learn over time. And so she's learning it early, and seeing you commit to that promise that you made.

[00:19:36] Dori Durbin: So I think that's really excellent. Not easy, but excellent.

[00:19:39] Angie Grandt: And now, I, she, she's always been a kind hearted human, but now as a young adult, she's 21 now and I just see little glimpses of it where she just cares so much about other people and I know it's because of the experiences she had early on in life and I, I'm so grateful for that.

[00:19:59] Angie Grandt: It's [00:20:00] just so great seeing her become the human that she is becoming and the mom she is. It's lovely. 

[00:20:05] Dori Durbin: Aw, that's got to feel really great. Oh yeah. 

[00:20:08] Dori Durbin: So when people do come to you for coaching, what does that process look like?

[00:20:15] Dori Durbin: And how do they know if they need 

[00:20:16] Angie Grandt: you? First and foremost, parents know they need me. I'm more than happy to work with adoptive parents who aren't at this point yet. It would be so much easier for all of us, but. But adoptive parents know they need me when they really have tried everything else.

[00:20:31] Angie Grandt: And they just feel like they're honestly at the end of their rope. And so many of the parents that I've talked with have honestly considered relinquishment. They've considered. Reversing adoption, they've considered giving up and I was there to, I'll never forget one of the therapists for my son, things were so hard and so I was going through parent training with her and he was working in a program and she said.

[00:20:59] Angie Grandt: [00:21:00] What will you do when you can't do this anymore? And I remember saying to her I can't even think about that because he's my son and I love him. And she said, but it might get that hard. And I just, I remember being so mad at her. Like, why would you plant that seed in my head? But it was true. And I was already thinking it anyways, because it was just so hard.

[00:21:19] Angie Grandt: And I just, I wasn't sleeping at night and it was affecting my work. I just I didn't feel good in myself anymore because I was just so overwhelmed and stressed and I knew I wasn't showing up for him. So those are the parents that I know need my help desperately. The parents who've tried all of the things, they've tried therapy for themselves, they've tried all of the resources for their kids and they are just beyond overwhelmed.

[00:21:43] Angie Grandt: They're feeling resent for their kiddo. Maybe they're regretting their decision. Honestly, those are the families that end up coming to me. But if you want to come to me before that, by all means, but so that's how [00:22:00] parents know for sure that I need to do something different and coaching really is so different.

[00:22:05] Angie Grandt: My coach would often say, the difference between coaching and therapy is that a therapist will help you work through whatever. Stuff in the past that you have to work through, whatever mental health struggles that you're having, where a coach will really help you create the future that you want for yourself, for your family for mine, it was originally for my business but truly working with a mindset coach has helped me create the future that I want with my family, with my most important relationships and with my business too.

[00:22:36] Angie Grandt: But. Yeah. So anyway, so you know, you need a coach when what you're doing isn't working. So when families come to me, it's oftentimes moms, when they come to me, I do offer my first session for free, which for a couple of reasons, right? Like most of us have never experienced a coach. So you don't know what you're getting yourself into.

[00:22:56] Angie Grandt: But during that first session, I actually go through a really powerful exercise that helps [00:23:00] me prepare for our very personalized plan of attack. If you decide to. Work with me, but even if you decide that you're not ready to work with me or a coach, you'll leave that free session with some tools that you can start putting into practice right away.

[00:23:16] Angie Grandt: But if you decide to work with me, then I just actually expanded it to be a year long program. So the first six months is pretty intense. And then the next six months is more of a carryover program. I do have other options to I have a second level, but anyways, so during that time we meet every week, I have a very.

[00:23:35] Angie Grandt: Unique. Series of lessons that I've created about becoming a connected parent and using some of my key strategies that I've developed to help parents really shift the way that they're thinking, shift the way that they show up in the tricky moments with their kids. And then I also use mindset coaching.

[00:23:51] Angie Grandt: As you look at what happened over the last week and you're like yeah, I blew up at my kid last week, we'll talk through that and help you really see [00:24:00] where you could shift things. So it has been just so powerful seeing the changes and my clients who come to me and I can hear it in their voice.

[00:24:07] Angie Grandt: They're just done and they're just done and they feel like this is like their last ditch effort. And now there's this client that I'm working with right now and her. She said to me this past week that her teenage daughter had said, wow, mom, I can really tell that you've been making huge changes in your really important relationships in your life since you've been working with this coach.

[00:24:30] Angie Grandt: Her daughter said that to her, which just that lit me up.

[00:24:33] Dori Durbin: Amazing. That's amazing. Just and then do you work with just one parent? Do you work with the whole family? What does that piece of that look like? 

[00:24:42] Angie Grandt: I'm open to anything. So far it's been primarily moms. I have had a husband wife couple who started out working with me.

[00:24:51] Angie Grandt: But then over time. The dad kind of faded out of joining the sessions, but he's welcome to join at any time, but it has primarily been the moms, but I'm [00:25:00] open to working with anybody. It is all virtual. And I work a day job, so I do work my coaching sessions are either early in the morning or after work or on the weekend.

[00:25:10] Angie Grandt: So that part of flexibility is. I think a lot of parents appreciate that because they're like I'd love to work with you, Angie, but I have a day job. So do I. Yes 

[00:25:20] Dori Durbin: you're willing to work with their schedule and try to make it flexible. So you can meet them. That's great. That's great. Absolutely.

[00:25:26] Dori Durbin: And I like that. It sounds bad, but I like that you're working with one parent at a time because I feel like if you can get one solidly on a mindset, then they can help the other parent as well. And then it's just contagious through the whole house then. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that negativity, I know when my kids were little and if I, my poor husband, I look back at it, how did he survive?

[00:25:49] Dori Durbin: But if I had a bad day and I was exhausted, that was the first thing that I did was read out the kids, tell them what, what happened and how exhausted I am. And I, it just set the whole [00:26:00] tone of the whole house instead of, okay, these things went well today and this is small compared to all of this good stuff.

[00:26:08] Dori Durbin: That whole mindset shift is huge. 

[00:26:11] Dori Durbin: , when you think about advice for parents who have, let's say, first of all, who have no kids, they're going to adopt a child for the first time. What advice would you give them even before they actually adopt a child?

[00:26:26] Angie Grandt: If I'm being super honest, and I don't mean this to try to sell myself, so I don't want it to sound like that but if. If I could wave a magic wand to help all adoptive parents, I very honestly would say hire a mindset coach who's been in your shoes because. Because going into adoption with very specific tools to show the way that you want to for your kids and not the way that you know, not the way that your parents showed up for you not to say that was bad, but your kids might need something very different from you.

[00:26:59] Angie Grandt: [00:27:00] Because of what they've been through. And working with a mindset coach who's been in your shoes, who understands adoption, understands a trauma, understands trauma, understands attachment, I think would be in the most beautiful of worlds, that would be amazing. What I would recommend if you're not ready for that, then what I the next level of things that I would recommend is really honing in on your ability to respond versus react.

[00:27:25] Angie Grandt: It's something that I've been really just I've been doing trainings on it and providing, providing I have a handout, I'll send you the link that you could put in the show notes if you want. But because we tend to react to situations that are in front of us because of what we see in front of us, instead of really responding in a planned way that matches our goal.

[00:27:48] Angie Grandt: So when we think about. Say you adopt a kiddo right at birth and then all of a sudden you're, two year old is telling you they hate you to have the tools to [00:28:00] respond to them with that unconditional love and not react to you can't say that to mom because that isn't what they need from you.

[00:28:06] Angie Grandt: They don't need you to tell you they don't need you to say that. That was bad. They probably knew that wasn't the right thing to say, but there's something in them. That was. Encouraging them to say something in that regard. And so anyway, so having tools to be able to respond versus react can be so incredibly powerful, not only for your kids, but man, like you're you're with your spouse with your boss with.

[00:28:30] Angie Grandt: Anybody can be really powerful. So that would be my biggest strategy that I would suggest is respond versus react. And so I have a video and a handout. You'll love it. You definitely want to check it out. That's very cool. 

[00:28:43] Dori Durbin: Yeah. That's a huge life skill. Yes. Yeah, it really is. 

[00:28:48] Dori Durbin: So if you were going to give advice to parents and you said, talk to your kids about these two things before you bring home the adopted child, what would be a [00:29:00] couple of things that you would suggest talking or prepping them for? 

[00:29:04] Angie Grandt: Prepping the parents or the children for?

[00:29:06] Dori Durbin: The children. Yep. The 

[00:29:08] Angie Grandt: children. Oh oh man, I think probably the core of all of it is just helping our kids understand that we have unconditional love for them. It's not our love isn't based on how well they're behaving or whether or not they're meeting our expectations, but that we just love them unconditionally.

[00:29:27] Angie Grandt: No matter what they bring to the table. And, as parents, I think we would all say that we love our kids unconditionally. But then when they act in a way that doesn't match our expectations, we we react to that. So I think if there was one thing that we as parents could really. Do better at myself included, but there's one thing we could do better at and really help our kids understand is that we do really love them unconditionally and that they don't have to behave to get our love, that we're not going to [00:30:00] withhold our love or change how we are with them because they're not meeting our expectations in the moment.

[00:30:06] Angie Grandt: Yeah, that's great 

[00:30:07] Dori Durbin: advice. That's great advice at any level, really adopted kids or not. Yeah, very good. Very good. Okay. I know they're going to want to talk to you, Angie. So where can they find you easily and how can they access your services? 

[00:30:21] Angie Grandt: tHe best, easiest way to access all of my things is I, my company is called Connected Parents with Angie, so you can go to my website, connected parents with angie.com.

[00:30:33] Angie Grandt: You can find me on Instagram. I also have a Facebook group. They're all the same connected parents with Angie, no spaces, no dashes, no nothing. Just connected parents with ng. 

[00:30:42] Dori Durbin: Fantastic. Fantastic. And then we'll include that handout in the show notes. They can get a hold of that from you. And I'm hoping that they'll connect with you for sure.

[00:30:51] Angie Grandt: Yeah, me too. If I can just help one adoptive family to not struggle, that would just. Make my heart so [00:31:00] happy. 

[00:31:00] Dori Durbin: I think you can totally do at least one for 

[00:31:03] Angie Grandt: sure. 

[00:31:04] Angie Grandt: YEah, and I guess just one last thing I would throw out there is as an adoptive mom, it comes with A lot of, oftentimes it can come with a lot of shame, right? We made this promise to bring this child into our family. And so if you are not an adoptive parent someone, share my resource with them, share my website, whatever it is, because they might be putting on the very best face about we've got it all pulled together and everything is lovely.

[00:31:34] Angie Grandt: And inside they might be feeling like they're really failing because it's, it can be really hard. And we want to put out into the world this this view that we've got it all together and we made this promise to this child. And so if an adoptive parent. Please just share my resource anyways, because you might not know if they're struggling, they might really be holding that in and be [00:32:00] afraid to talk about it.

[00:32:02] Angie Grandt: Oh, 

[00:32:02] Dori Durbin: that's great. I think you're absolutely right. And that's one of those things where they'll just suffer in silence and that doesn't have to happen. 

[00:32:09] Angie Grandt: Yeah. So thank you for having me here. I am just so grateful for what you're doing, Dory. And I, this was super fun. Oh, 

[00:32:17] Dori Durbin: good. You gave us a lot of great information and we can't wait.

[00:32:21] Dori Durbin: To bring you back with your children's book. 

[00:32:23] Angie Grandt: Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank 

[00:32:25] Dori Durbin: you 

[00:32:25] Angie Grandt: again, Angie.